RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 7:41:55 AM)

Being part of nature/god/higher power, does not mean divine inspiration. Farting is part of nature, if you believe that some higher power created nature, then farting would be part of it as well. If you believe in a creator, whether it be an invisible manifestation in the clouds, or a mathematical equation, then not ANYTHING comes from it, but EVERYTHING comes from it. That means the good and the evil, the blights and the bounty.

Now back to the security guard. I have to look into it, but walking through the lobby of the hotel I am currently in, I saw where the shooter killed himself? Is this the same shooting, or another one that flashed across CNN?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You can say that ANYTHING comes with divine inspiration once you make the word "God" mean nothing at all.  I just farted--was that divine inspiration too?  It was natural, after all.



Alumbrado -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 8:02:13 AM)

Apparently after being hit by the officer, the shooter stopped trying to kill anyone else and took his own life.



Alumbrado -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 8:13:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I'm also a former Federal Law Enforcement Officer


Really??? When did you graduate from Phase 1 at the Federal LEO academy at Glynco?

Being on the federal dole and carrying a gun doesn't make you a Federal LEO, any more than it makes the guard in the lobby of the Social Security office an FBI agent.

If you were not an 083 or 1811 -12, 54, 96, etc.  series FLEO, stop using specific job titles you never earned, and riding on the coattails of those who did earn it.




Alumbrado, our people went to Glynco, Quantico and Otis Air Force Base and other places around the country for training in law enforcement.
We worked with the Secret Service guarding then Vice President George Bush at his summer home in Maine.
We worked with Customs, Immigration, FBI, U.S. Marshalls and state and local agencies.
The U.S. Coast Guard currently has 6 man "LEDETS" (Law Enforcement Detatchments) onboard U.S. Navy ships to perform arrests of drug smugglers and illegal migrants. (Because of the "Posse Comitatus Act.")
They have USCG vessels in the Carribean and Pacific performing Drug Interdiction Operations.
The U.S. Coast Guard doesn't "ride on the coat tails" of anyone!
And, they even offer specialised law enforcement training to *local and state police agencies.*
I've been involved in the arrests of probably 200 drug smuglers.
How many have you arrested lately?
Instead of shooting your mouth off about something which you obviously know nothing about why don't you go to a Coast Guard Recruiter's office and sign up?
There's nothing in your background stopping you is there?


Yeah, being 55 in a couple of months...interesting that you claim to be CG retiree,and didn't know that there is an upper age limit for being commissioned.  

Sounds like your FLEO status isn't the only thing you are BSing about.

Citing the Glynco affiliate training is still not saying you personally ever graduated from FLEO Phase 1, or were ever sworn in by a federal judge as a sworn civilian FLEO in one of the GS series designated as such by OPM X-118.

So you continue to fail to meet the basic requirements to legitimately make that claim

And my arrest record is considerably better than yours, and I didn't have to lie about my status. 

You were no more a FLEO or a Federal Agent than the man in the moon.

It is like someone claiming to be a 'United States Marine', because they live in the US, and once went to the ocean. 

You are stealing someone else's honor, and I'm calling you on it.



popeye1250 -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 10:22:50 AM)

Alumbrado, go back to sleep.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 12:35:16 PM)

quote:

That amendment is not a blanket statement. You have the right to free speech but you do not have the right to use it irresponsibly - you are not allowed to go into a crowded theater and yell fire. As such, that right comes with responsiblities. It is your responsiblity to educate yourself about guns and safety beyond the instruction of your father. It is your responsbility to register your gun. It is your responsibility to follow the laws in place for firemans.

People have got to remember that when the 2nd amendment was penned, it took two whole minutes to load one bullet and it was very easy to disarm someone while they were doing it. Fuck, people can have all the muzzle loaders they want but if you want the nifty stuff you've got to follow some rules.

The Constitution was not a flawless document nor was it intended to be one. The founders realized that times would change and that they could not forsee how things would change, which is why there are systems in place to change the Constitution.


You are sadly misinformed Aquatic.  The 2nd Amendment is a blanket statement.  It applies to every citizen of this country.  Everyone has a right to own a weapon, and government is specifically prohibited from infringing on that right.  The only way you can have your rights removed is through due process in a court of law.  There is no law that says I have to get any instruction in the use of a weapon.  I know how to use firearms, and I have been using them for over 20 years.  As long as I don't use my firearms to commit crimes, I am free to use them however I choose.  You seem to be horrible ignorant of firearms laws.  There is not requirement to register a firearm in my home state.  There isn't a requirement to do that in most states.  I have no responsibility to register any of them with a government agency. 

When the 2nd amendment was written, it didn't take 2 minutes to load a weapon.  A skilled person could load a rifle in under a minute, and most people in 1787 were familiar with the handling of guns.  They certainly weren't easy to disarm by any means.  People also routinely carried knives during this time period too.  The fact that you made this statement tells me that you are woefully ignorant of history. 

The Constitution is a changeable document.  You are absolutely right, but the founding fathers made that an extremely difficult task to do.  At present, the 2nd Amendment is in not danger of being repealed.  It would be political suicide for anyone that tried to do it.



Lordandmaster -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 2:11:48 PM)

Uh huh, then it that case it's utterly trivial to say that God was with the security guard.  God was with the shooter too.  God was with my fart.  In that uselessly diffuse sense, "God" doesn't mean anything at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Farting is part of nature, if you believe that some higher power created nature, then farting would be part of it as well. If you believe in a creator, whether it be an invisible manifestation in the clouds, or a mathematical equation, then not ANYTHING comes from it, but EVERYTHING comes from it. That means the good and the evil, the blights and the bounty.



AquaticSub -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 2:16:05 PM)

Woefully ignorant of history?

Tell me, how many muzzle-loaders have you personally loaded? Even if we believe that it took under a minute that's at least 30 seconds for one round, as opposed to being able to unload a clip of 8+ without ever having to pause. One bullet, one kill and at least 30 seconds between each kill.

That's what the second amendment is written for. Now if you believe that it is a blanket statement, you are sadly mistaken. Not every citizan is allowed to own a gun. If someone is shown to be mentally unstable, they are not allowed to own guns. If someone has a prior history of violence they are not allowed to own guns.

Now, nowhere did I mention have it repealed so calm down. I fully support guns, love shooting guns and looking forward to starting my own collection once I have a situation where I can have a proper safe installed and mounted to the wall. But the simple fact is that today's firearms are far beyond what the 2nd amendment was written for. Hell, I'd give anyone who wanted one muzzle loader. They miss the target more than they hit and take so long to reload that the Virgina Tech shooting simply wouldn't have happened. It doesn't take 30 seconds to rush someone who is in the same classroom as you. It's a hell of a lot easy than trying to disarm someone with a semiautomatic.

I firmly believe in our right to own guns. But I don't believe we have the right to own any gun at any time, just as we don't have the right to say anything we want at any time we want. Yell fire in a crowded theater and claim freedom of speech - see how far the blanket statement theory gets ya.



AquaticSub -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 2:22:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Yes, they're called Amendments. And if you disagree with the un-infringed Right to Keep and Bear Arms, then you should just get the Amendment repealed, and/or changed to reflect what you believe to be the appropriate wording.

Otherwise, the Framers were quite deliberate in their choice of words. To "Read Between The Lines" and argue about where a, freaking, comma, is is just dishonest and dishonorable.




Yes, yes, get one your soapbox because obviously if I believe people should be required to pass some basic safety training before being given a lethal weapon I hate guns and want them to go away. Hey, the Constitution used to all "all men are free" but we still had slaves but since it doesn't specifically say muzzle loaders, we can't look at the weaponery of the time period and think that they based that statement off the weaponary of the time period. Of course not - the founding fathers had magical crystal balls that told them all about Ak-47s and .45s.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the range where I'll practice my aim. Cause you see, I don't want guns to go away. And, as you said, the right to bear arms doesn't actually say guns. It doesn't say you have any arm you want. It just says the right to bear arms. Your sword and knife count.



Alumbrado -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 3:30:48 PM)

quote:

Tell me, how many muzzle-loaders have you personally loaded? Even if we believe that it took under a minute that's at least 30 seconds for one round, as opposed to being able to unload a clip of 8+ without ever having to pause. One bullet, one kill and at least 30 seconds between each kill.

That's what the second amendment is written for.


If you believe that the Constitution can only apply to the technology available on the day it was written, then you must also believe that everyone should have a cannon with chain and grape shot, but no one is allowed under the 1st Amendment to have a car, radio, or computer.[;)]



farglebargle -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 4:11:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I firmly believe in our right to own guns. But I don't believe we have the right to own any gun at any time, just as we don't have the right to say anything we want at any time we want.


That makes NO SENSE.

You *have* the right to say anything you want, at any time you want. If you abuse that right, you must deal with the appropriate civil and/or criminal sanctions AFTER THE FACT. You don't need a permit to speak.




farglebargle -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 4:17:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the range where I'll practice my aim. Cause you see, I don't want guns to go away. And, as you said, the right to bear arms doesn't actually say guns. It doesn't say you have any arm you want. It just says the right to bear arms. Your sword and knife count.


Since it doesn't specify a list of arms which the Federal Government can prohibit, then by the 9th and 10th Amendment's explicit reservation of authority, the Federal Government cannot just dream up restrictions they'd like to have.

Again, your options are: "Amend the Constitution to conform to your beliefs" or "Suck-Up-And-Deal".






popeye1250 -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 4:18:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I'm also a former Federal Law Enforcement Officer


Really??? When did you graduate from Phase 1 at the Federal LEO academy at Glynco?

Being on the federal dole and carrying a gun doesn't make you a Federal LEO, any more than it makes the guard in the lobby of the Social Security office an FBI agent.

If you were not an 083 or 1811 -12, 54, 96, etc.  series FLEO, stop using specific job titles you never earned, and riding on the coattails of those who did earn it.




Alumbrado, our people went to Glynco, Quantico and Otis Air Force Base and other places around the country for training in law enforcement.
We worked with the Secret Service guarding then Vice President George Bush at his summer home in Maine.
We worked with Customs, Immigration, FBI, U.S. Marshalls and state and local agencies.
The U.S. Coast Guard currently has 6 man "LEDETS" (Law Enforcement Detatchments) onboard U.S. Navy ships to perform arrests of drug smugglers and illegal migrants. (Because of the "Posse Comitatus Act.")
They have USCG vessels in the Carribean and Pacific performing Drug Interdiction Operations.
The U.S. Coast Guard doesn't "ride on the coat tails" of anyone!
And, they even offer specialised law enforcement training to *local and state police agencies.*
I've been involved in the arrests of probably 200 drug smuglers.
How many have you arrested lately?
Instead of shooting your mouth off about something which you obviously know nothing about why don't you go to a Coast Guard Recruiter's office and sign up?
There's nothing in your background stopping you is there?


Yeah, being 55 in a couple of months...interesting that you claim to be CG retiree,and didn't know that there is an upper age limit for being commissioned.  

Sounds like your FLEO status isn't the only thing you are BSing about.

Citing the Glynco affiliate training is still not saying you personally ever graduated from FLEO Phase 1, or were ever sworn in by a federal judge as a sworn civilian FLEO in one of the GS series designated as such by OPM X-118.

So you continue to fail to meet the basic requirements to legitimately make that claim

And my arrest record is considerably better than yours, and I didn't have to lie about my status. 

You were no more a FLEO or a Federal Agent than the man in the moon.

It is like someone claiming to be a 'United States Marine', because they live in the US, and once went to the ocean. 

You are stealing someone else's honor, and I'm calling you on it.


Alumbrado, I was a NCO in the U.S. Coast Guard. I was not a commissioned officer.
What does an "upper age limit" for being commissioned have to do with anything? And how would that be germaine to the conversation?
And as for Glynco, Quantico or other FLET training we didn't go there to, "get sworn in", we were *already* sworn federal law enforcement officers who were there for *advanced* FLET training!
And as far as a "Federal Judge swearing in Federal Law Enforcement Officers", when the FBI for example graduates a class the FBI *Director* swears the class in, not a *Federal Judge*!
It's the same with Customs, U.S. Marshalls etc.
Where do you come up with this crap?
Also, the U.S. Coast Guard doesn't use the "G.S." series!
We were under the Dept. of Transportation and used the Military rank structure series E-1- E-10 and O1- O10.
When you advance to E-4 you are by statute a federal law enforcement officer. Look it up in the U.S. Code.
If you were in federal law enforcement like you claim, you'd already know all this stuff.
Which branch were you in?



slaveboyforyou -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 4:20:46 PM)

quote:

Woefully ignorant of history?

Tell me, how many muzzle-loaders have you personally loaded? Even if we believe that it took under a minute that's at least 30 seconds for one round, as opposed to being able to unload a clip of 8+ without ever having to pause. One bullet, one kill and at least 30 seconds between each kill.

That's what the second amendment is written for. Now if you believe that it is a blanket statement, you are sadly mistaken. Not every citizan is allowed to own a gun. If someone is shown to be mentally unstable, they are not allowed to own guns. If someone has a prior history of violence they are not allowed to own guns.

Now, nowhere did I mention have it repealed so calm down. I fully support guns, love shooting guns and looking forward to starting my own collection once I have a situation where I can have a proper safe installed and mounted to the wall. But the simple fact is that today's firearms are far beyond what the 2nd amendment was written for. Hell, I'd give anyone who wanted one muzzle loader. They miss the target more than they hit and take so long to reload that the Virgina Tech shooting simply wouldn't have happened. It doesn't take 30 seconds to rush someone who is in the same classroom as you. It's a hell of a lot easy than trying to disarm someone with a semiautomatic.

I firmly believe in our right to own guns. But I don't believe we have the right to own any gun at any time, just as we don't have the right to say anything we want at any time we want. Yell fire in a crowded theater and claim freedom of speech - see how far the blanket statement theory gets ya.


I have loaded and fired a lot of muzzle loaders.  I have fired both flintlock and percussion cap rifles, shotguns, and pistols.  I have yet to fire a matchlock or a wheelock weapon, but I would love to try one out.  It does take time to load one, but I am not living in 1787.  I don't rely on a gun to eat everyday.  If I had to, I am sure that I would be well versed in using these weapons.  I know it certainly doesn't take 2 minutes to load one, and that was the claim you made.  Alumbrado makes a very good point.  By your argument, I should be able to buy a ship and fully stock it with cannons.  You said earlier that the founding fathers knew that times would change.  Well that works both ways.  They obviously knew that firearm technology would advance significantly.  It was already advancing fairly rapidly when the Constitution was written. 

By the way, you're wrong about who can and can't own a firearm.  A convicted felon is barred from owning them, but that is perfectly within the realm of the Constitution.   I made that point in my earlier post.  Your rights can be taken away through due process in a court of law.  Mental defectives are only barred from owning a gun if they have been adjudicated and placed in the system.  A history of violence doesn't bar you from owning a weapon.  There are a lot of violent offenses that are misdemeanors, and having a misdemeanor offense on your record doensn't prohibit you from owning a gun.  The Bill of Rights are rights.  Rights are not priviliges. 

I am glad that you don't want to get rid of guns.  You can keep yours in a safe if you want.  But I prefer mine where I can access them easily when and if I need them. 



thompsonx -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 4:46:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
We were under the Dept. of Transportation and used the Military rank structure series E-1- E-10 and O1- O10.


popeye:
Enlisted rank only goes to E 9 not E 10.
thompson



thompsonx -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 5:03:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Actually after reading some News articles about it the guy had 1,000 rounds of ammo so this could have been considerably worse than it was!
And in some blogs the Lefties are going bonkers because this involves two of their favorite subjects, "God" and "Guns!" lol!

popeye:
I also read that part about the 1000 rounds of ammo.
Pistol ammo comes fifty rounds to a box and rifle ammo runs twenty rounds to the box.  The shooter is suppose to have had two pistols and a rifle.  Anyone wanna guess how much a thousand rounds of ammo weigh.  Now if the shooter had two five hundred round "bricks" of .22 ammo and three twenty twos we are only talking about twenty pounds or so.  If we are talking 30.06 and .45 that means this fellow was humping  a hundred pounds or more of guns and ammo.
thompson



Sanity -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 5:42:51 PM)

You tell 'em farglebargle.

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to back up our votes. It's a part of the system of checks and balances - we the people may just rise up and fire the government with real fire any time sufficient numbers of us so choose.

Votes are just proxy for that, so that perhaps blood need not be shed. Firearms is the gold that backs the currency of the vote up.




lazarus1983 -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 5:56:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You tell 'em farglebargle.

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to back up our votes. It's a part of the system of checks and balances - we the people may just rise up and fire the government with real fire any time sufficient numbers of us so choose.

Votes are just proxy for that, so that perhaps blood need not be shed. Firearms is the gold that backs the currency of the vote up.




Greatest post ever.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 9:13:17 PM)

Actually you are correct, and from an eastern view, god is everything, would be equally correct. It all depends on the focus of the one believing, and their beliefs. It also ties into psychology and meta physics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, then it that case it's utterly trivial to say that God was with the security guard.  God was with the shooter too.  God was with my fart.  In that uselessly diffuse sense, "God" doesn't mean anything at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Farting is part of nature, if you believe that some higher power created nature, then farting would be part of it as well. If you believe in a creator, whether it be an invisible manifestation in the clouds, or a mathematical equation, then not ANYTHING comes from it, but EVERYTHING comes from it. That means the good and the evil, the blights and the bounty.



Owner59 -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/13/2007 9:30:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You tell 'em farglebargle.

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to back up our votes. It's a part of the system of checks and balances - we the people may just rise up and fire the government with real fire any time sufficient numbers of us so choose.

Votes are just proxy for that, so that perhaps blood need not be shed. Firearms is the gold that backs the currency of the vote up.




Votes are just proxy for that, so that perhaps blood need not be shed. Firearms is the gold that backs the currency of the vote up.


Oh really?

Then where were you and the other "patriots",when bush stole the election in 2000?

Oh ,that`s right,you(and the other republicans)were the thieves.Duh!What was I thinking?

God help us, if you and the super-patriots are the ones to defend our votes and democracy.



brightspot -> RE: After shooting,Security Guard hero says, 'God Guided Me And Protected Me' (12/14/2007 1:01:27 AM)

~FR
 
I do not know who or what "guided"this woman,
but,
I do know that she worked here for the Minneapolis
Police Dept. and was fired for giving false testimony
about an incident she was involved with here....
Where was her guidence in that case?
 
Missy.



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