RE: Mike Huckabee's View of Women

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RE: Mike Huckabee's View of Women - 1/19/2008 6:23:55 AM

fluffyswitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

By the way in 99% of cases the issue of abortion is not complicated. It is done for no other reason than convenience. Is that statement wrong ?

the sociologist in me would like to see a source so i can add it to my files lol. most of the sources that i've read it's an economic issue or one based on the inability to carry a child such as when the age of the mother is factored into the decision (either due to being underage or being at a period of one's life when carrying a child is not a possibility), abortion as convience is quite small. and even if it is a matter of convience (which i am not entirely convinced it is), it is complicated in that it is your body, it is something that can hurt you physically in the end, there are massive societal pressures on you from BOTH sides of the argument (trust me pro-choice can be just as vicious as pro-life), and even if you did the right thing for the period of your life that you were in, it's not something that tends to be oh i just had an abortion let's go to the mall. knowing that you did the right thing for yourself at the time when you have it done doesn't make it easier, most of the women that i've talked to who had one have said that they would most likely have gone through with the procedure again, but it wasn't an easy decision to make. like i've said before i would have an abortion if i got pregnant right now, for multiple reasons that may come across as a matter of convience. however both my partner and i agree that it's the best option right now if all else failed, including potential issues with my health and the fact that i'm still in school, and that neither of us are in an economic position to raise a child or have the emotional capacity as it stands right now to give a child up for adoption. i guess i'm pro choice in that legalizing abortion does not make the rates sky rocket and it makes it safer. and the fact of the matter is, right or wrong it is my decision to make and my conscious that will have to deal with the decision. i suppose it's cliche but 'if you don't want an abortion don't have one'?

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

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RE: Mike Huckabee's View of Women - 1/19/2008 6:39:15 AM

sharainks

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Getting back to the original topic of Huckabee's views on women. Yes the Bible says women should submit to their husbands. Here are the instructions to husbands.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church

Hmmm loving your spouse as you do yourself, as much as one loves their own body. Nothing in this degrades women or implies that the wife is to be submissive to anyone who comes along. No more so than any submissive is to submit to just anyone who comes along. Part of my reason for leaning towards D/s was a recognition that a lot of marriages/relationships were ruined by incessant power struggles. Thats not to imply that only men can make decisions or that at all times it should be the man making the decision. It means that for the sake of the relationship one has to be willing to make a choice about who in the family has the final say. In Christians who believe the Bible that choice tends to be to follow what the Bible has to say.

People always have the choice as to what kind of marriage they want and the rules they will live by. Not everyone has to have a marriage where they follow a religious belief system. That is their choice.

I will say I went through a feminist period back in the day. I moved away from it when it started to be more about man bashing than lifting up women. I hope for a day when each person can be valued for what they are regardless of race, sex, or views.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

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RE: Mike Huckabee's View of Women - 1/19/2008 7:13:31 AM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

My whimsical attitude Fluffy, nothing more. adding: thats why I ended the statement with a "lol"
I have no reason to believe anyone will agree with me.
I am not an active outraged crusader against abortion .....but ......

Also using Thetammyjoe's "thin wedge"..... if abortion is OK lets kill off old people, the sick, the depressed, those in wheel chairs or suffering any disease that cant be cured but can be held in abeyence.
Cant see any difference in principle....can you ?

Funnily enough I do believe in Euthenasia, under strict controls !

By the way in 99% of cases the issue of abortion is not complicated. It is done for no other reason than convenience. Is that statement wrong ?

I'm gussing that in 99% of abortions, the indications are that if one or both of the parties were mature enough to use birth control - and it's always the men who say "it's like wearing a raincoat in the shower", etc., then neither party is responsible enough to raise a child in such a way that it has an even chance of growing into a person who can make their own choices - the prisons are full of unwanted children propagated by women hooked on drugs, etc., men who couldn't stick around to help raise them but are off to get another woman hooked on drugs, etc., and they themselves were probobly unwanted to begin with.

It's all well and good when you assume rational, healthy, economically secure people involved: it ain't necessarily so, and it's always been the right wing that introduced things like forced abortions, forced sterilizations, etc. - George H. Bush started forced sterilization programs in Africa, and the same right wing cabal that's currently plotting to overthrow the constitution is the same bunch that inspired Hitler with their eugenics programs in the Thirties and Forties, forced abortions and sterilizations of those they considered "unfit", who coincidentally enough are usualy minorities.

Me, I'd like to retain the whole concept of choice, if you don't mind, I cannot see a blastocysts life as being somehow more sacred than any other, you cnd force women to have children, you cannot force men or women to be responsible parents.

My ex and I were broken up when she turned up pregnant, she asked me what to do (condom broke), and I told her it was her choice, I'd back her up no matter what she did. She cried (all her other boyfriends made her get abortions). Long story short, her it is Ten years later, I'm stuck at home with two kids, the oldest has Downs, and I can't get a babysitter, so I have no social life and I live on the edge of poverty, I packed them up and left 5 years ago because she couldn't quit drinking and she was a violent drunk - the oldest still has some issues, and and occassionally gets physically aggressive when frustrated.

I'm not crying poor me here, I made my choice and I stuck to my word, and I don't regret any of it, but I am literally only one of about three or four men I've ever known in my life who would do that, and I'm lucky enough to be in a situation where it's possible - I've known myriad single mothers who leave the kids alone at home while they go out and party, guys in prison, or on the run, hooked on drugs, etc., or forced to live like a homeless person, moving from one squat to another, always a target for abuse and exploitation and her children too, most of whom themselves end up pregnent teenagers - it's just no way for a kid to grow up, the deck is stacked against you, and being an unwanted child, raised by "wolves", for all practical purposes, get's you not one iota of sympathy in this world, and from social conservatives least of all.

Take your baby down to the local church and tell them you're an unwed mother and need help, see what kind of reception you get, they want converts and acolytes, and they're gonna make you grovel for it if they offer any help at all, they're too busy politicking against childcare, child welfare, birth control sex education, blocking family planning clinics where women go to get birth control, or any other program that "encourages" the independence of women, or taking responsibility for your own reproductive choices.

So yeah, I don't think it's the best form of birth control, but I understand the situation entirely, in many cases it is the responsible thing to do, and it's never been an easy decision for any of the women I've known - if more guys talked to these women, they might not be so adament against using condoms.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 1/19/2008 7:22:21 AM >

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

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RE: Mike Huckabee's View of Women - 1/19/2008 10:01:29 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

Part of my reason for leaning towards D/s was a recognition that a lot of marriages/relationships were ruined by incessant power struggles. Thats not to imply that only men can make decisions or that at all times it should be the man making the decision. It means that for the sake of the relationship one has to be willing to make a choice about who in the family has the final say.

I actually fully agree with this.

Power struggles are a pain. If one can decide on who has authority over which areas or how decisions are made, I think that cuts down a lot of such struggles.

At least in my household it does.

Now we don't base our set-up decision making process on gender, race, age, religion, whatever, but on who is best qualified.

So since my husband has far more interests and skills with technology, part of his job is to keep things working around here and decide when something needs updating or replacing or fixing. However he wasn't raised with a firm grasp of finances so anything that is going to cost money needs to be discussed with me and I listen very hard to his very informed opinion about what needs to be done and the best way to do it. Then we research best price and best product and I usually make the final decision.

If it comes to food or laundry, I make those decisions again because I'm better trained in them from childhood.

Of course, with my slave my authority is always there but even then I use his knowledge and take his opinions into consideration and most of his money is his own simply because I have no wish to manage it.

In some areas we do follow gender stereotypes, difficult not to when one is raised in a heavily gendered culture, but we find it silly to ignore who is most qualified when it comes to making important decisions about ourselves and the entire household.

My guess is that even household where they claim that one person is "in command" because of race, age, gender, etc, are not really functioning solely on that level if they want to work in the best possible fashion.

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(in reply to sharainks)

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RE: Mike Huckabee's View of Women - 1/26/2008 9:26:57 PM

teal

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I don't care what Huckabee thinks about anything. But i agree with you, whenstarscollide....people need to quit insisting that anyone be anything in particular. It was wrong to say all women should be subserviant...i know Plenty of powerful, amazing women. But it was also wrong to insist that ALL women need to be powerful, as the womens rights movement did.

I grew up being taught that, and felt like a miserable failure, because thats not who I am.

No different than the notion that ALL men should be powerful.

I am submisive, and i have a great deal of power in that role....in what i give to another. I am quite amazing, too. No one can take it. I choose who i give it to.

(in reply to whenstarscollide)

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