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RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:12:25 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
That is easy. You are aware that the redshift of far galaxies does not prove that the universe is expanding? Instead that is merely an interpretation hypothesis, not a fact. You are also aware that the cosmic background radiation was conveniently ascribed to the expansion of the universe, and thus is a derived - and hence suspect - interpretation hypothesis?
 
So here is the question: is it possible by experimental means to independently from redshift and cbr prove the expansion of the universe within a plausible period? (Hypothetically it is possible to bounce a radar beam off the dust in those far galaxies - say at a distance of two hundred million light years - and to measure their distance at intervals of say ten thousand years, but it would take four hundred million years to get the results. That obviously is not a plausible period.)
 
So you had better consider a new model.


Why do you think it is relevant that the universe is expanding or contracting? Does this make any difference to the idea of an initial explosion? It is commonly believed that the universe is either expanding or contracting. The other thing they say is ‘oh it can’t be contracting at that rate there isn’t enough matter to give the gravitational force required.’ So they propose all this matter being part of the universe that you can’t see. People have to weigh up the results from the various experiments being conducted and consider themselves what they believe these results to mean. The alternative is reading a book written in year dot that supposedly gives you all the answers encrypted; because God loves a puzzle.  

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RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:16:19 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
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Status: offline 		The Bible doesn't pretend to be a science text book.  And Religion is more than some version of the Christian Bible. 

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:18:12 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		As a wierd side note consider that Time is relative, science demonstrates it to be so, so who know how time works for God, or what 6 days works out to from our perspective.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:33:28 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Why do you think it is relevant that the universe is expanding or contracting?
There is no evidence that it does either. So the question itself is not relevant.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Does this make any difference to the idea of an initial explosion?
Two of the three pillars that are asserted to support the Big Bang hypothesis are the redshift of far galaxies and the cosmic background radiation. I have for the moment forgotten what the third one was, but I do recall that it sucks as well. So there is not any credible evidence for an initial explosion having occurred.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
It is commonly believed that the universe is either expanding or contracting.
It is commonly believed that the Moon is a Swiss cheese and that the holes in that cheese are made by Moon mice. That does not make it true.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The other thing they say is ‘oh it can’t be contracting at that rate there isn’t enough matter to give the gravitational force required.’
They is weird people, as they can talk, but lack the ability to comprehend. There is no evidence of contraction either, so all this talk about there not being sufficient mass is not relevant.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
So they propose all this matter being part of the universe that you can’t see.
They might as well propose that at the bottom of the ocean a school of giant octopus follow classes in how to play the fiddle. We cannot see those fiddle playing octopusses either. So they and this matter that one cannot see either do exist, not so? (Not, as those proposals are mere fabrications of the deluded.)
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
People have to weigh up the results from the various experiments being conducted and consider themselves what they believe these results to mean.
See? Religion instead of science.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The alternative is reading a book written in year dot that supposedly gives you all the answers encrypted; because God loves a puzzle.
It is merely that most people are not qualified to interpret both that book nor the unfamiliar phenomena that are observed by scientists.

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:36:46 PM   
oreogirl


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Status: offline 		Follow your heart and the path will become clear.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:38:30 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I think you are confusing basic Christian values with BDSM activities.  I am Christian.  I learned long ago that one has to keep the two separate.  There is no way you can live your Christian challenge in this life by livng two separate lives.
We have to be honest.   Christian values require self discipline.  There is no way getting around this issue.   You cannot have sexual activities as a Christian couple.  You can do all the spanking, flogging, figging, etc, etc, that you wish as long as it does not cause sexual intercourse.
If the bdsm activities turn you own, it will lead to sexual intercourse which is not part of the Christian core of values before marriage.
Best thing to do is wait until marriage.   I did.  I did that before I was in BDSM.  I had a vanilla marriage.
If you ever wish to talk, please by all means email me here.  My southern baptist upbringing has been a constant challenge to my bdsm lifestyle.  I am finally at peace with it.
Best of luck to you.

Regards, MissSCD
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: DollMaster72

I am a Christian dominant man and have a wonderful relationship with a submissive woman.  I hapve been walkin though the issues around BDSM and relationship reguards sex before marriage.  I was wondering if other Christian doms have faced this.  Where to draw the lines in what is appropriate outside of marriage.  We have a D/s Daddy/girl oriented relationship and though I am being let by the spirit to curtail the more obvious physical sexual parts of our relationship, I would still like to continue working on the D/s part of the relationship and deepening our connection there.  I am would greatly appreciate advice from others who may have tread a similar path. 

I posted in this section so as not to offend those who might bristle at a "religious" thread in the regular bdsm section of  CollarMe.

Thank You,

Tim

(in reply to DollMaster72)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:41:49 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

You have to assume Facts about reality, that are not accepted by your scientific Peers and Betters, and declare them as fact, to hold up your belief system. And you pretend that turning thoeries/brainstorming into facts (ahead of the scientific community, with no), is using the scientific method and Math. It looks like a bending worthy of a Yoga Master to me.


What "Facts about reality" am I assuming that wouldn't be accepted by others within the field?


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

What you say here
"Secondly, that story about the adultreress is NOT saying that adultry is okay (and has nothing to do with premartial sex). It's saying that it's God who will be offended and have the right to judge, not mortals (to include Jesus). In other words, to apply it to premartial sex, Jesus is saying that us humans shouldn't do the judging, that that's God's job.. he's not saying that it isn't going to be judged! "

Is pretty much Christian doctrine, and the Theology holds that Those sins will be forgiven thorough Christs Mercy. I don't think BDSM is in itself more sinfull than Monday Night Football.


While I'm inclined to agree that BDSM and Monday Night Football may be on equal footing in morality, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't Christianity hold premartial sex and orgies in distain and as sin? (While I can't site passages, I'm rather sure at least a couple passages in the Bible use orgies as an example of sin commited by Biblical villians.)

Let's remember, too, that sins are forgiven if repented for.. sincere sorrow and a resolution not to continue to commit. This doesn't mean you can continue to commit murders and later be forgiven without consideration. In the same regard, premarital sex and orgies would have to be something you'd take a strong stance against, acknowledge as immoral, and truly commit to not doing again.

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:46:07 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

The religion is an idea



'In full agreement; any idea can be/is taken to the extreme.


Ideas are part of people; religion is, therefore, human.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:49:27 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

Why is it people think morality doesn't exist without religion?


Please bear in mind that I didn't actually say that. However, I cannot imagine morality without the willingness to think religiously--that is, to accept unproven and unprovable axioms, such as "Every human has dignity and rights" or "Justice is better than injustice." But perhaps my imagination isn't broad enough.


I'm a rather moral fellow. I value life, happiness, truth, etc.. but I make no assumptions of this or that, only I try to promote the things that I value. And I hope it's clear at this point that I have no fear of a retribution in the afterlife.

PS- About the assumptions you mentioned, though.. those can be empiracly observed and, in many cases, scientifically tested. If I found out, though, that feeding a lost kitten caused AIDS to spread in Africia, well.. I might change my actions, you know? So it's not so much assumptions as observations.. with working conclusions that change and grow as time goes on, but aren't based in, "God says 'do this' or 'do that'".

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 12/30/2007 6:52:32 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:50:52 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		But why do you value life, truth, etc.?

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 6:56:50 PM   
CuriousLord


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Probably due to biological reasonings.

A living creature almost certainly must have the will to survive; hence, its life is valuable. (If it didn't, it'd die, no offspring, it'd go extinct, yada yada). Family is also valuable.. likely due to biological predisposition as well. At some point, social forces kick in with surficiently large populations to create laws. (The fairness of a Sumpreme Court is far beyond that any isolated tribe would grant an arbitrary stranger.)

Truth, in my observations, promotes life. (This is perhaps an unusual observation, as "white lies" are extremely frequent and, well, as one can see in this thread, many people perfer comforting assumptions over empiracle observation.)

Other values tend to follow similar trends.. it'd take quite a while to list and derive each, though.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:02:36 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I can see how valuing one's one life is beneficial, but what about others' lives? Nature is full of examples of species, including ours, that kill other animals, sometimes even conspecifics. Is the belief that one should respect another's life scientifically verifiable?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:04:36 PM   
CuriousLord


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I suppose. We could take a bunch of sociopaths and put them together on an island and see how many are still there in a year.

PS- We can also see how many of them can start healthy families with chlidren that grow up to be strong and viable individuals. I fear, though, that such an experiment would be unethical as it would leave some new innocents dead, not to mention unoffending members of the orginial test group killed for convinence or so..

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 12/30/2007 7:06:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:06:22 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		And what would that prove?

Also, would it be moral to conduct an experiment that you thought could lead to the loss of human life?

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 12/30/2007 7:07:22 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:08:02 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		It'd allow us to test if lacking a concern for other lives would be determental to a species or not. The proof, I feel, might come in the murders and lack of proper child care leading to a decline of the society.

To answer the PS, no, it wouldn't likely be too moral (commented on in the edit on the post before that one). But immorality of an expierment wouldn't negate the fact that it would be a verifiable statement.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 12/30/2007 7:10:06 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:08:28 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I see we had the same thought as we were editing! Why would it be unethical to have innocents die?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:10:52 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		Life is valuable. Again, an extension and compliment of the survival function necessary for life itself.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:11:54 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		A single murder here or there probably isn't detrimental to the species. So is it moral?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:14:56 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Life is valuable. Again, an extension and compliment of the survival function necessary for life itself.


Isn't that a bit circular, though. Life is valuable because valuing it promotes life. Is Earth some how more objectively valuable than Mars because Earth has life and Mars doesn't?

At heart, I think the belief that life is valuable (which I share) is an unprovable axiom--a statement of faith rather than empiricsm.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 12/30/2007 7:15:10 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		At this point in society, it probably isn't. But killing members of the species is immoral and determental unless, of course, it's to prevent a more immoral event (such as that member killing others).

One death isn't likely to affect the human race that much at this point, true. Then again, what would? Morality is concerned with the small scale- not that it isn't concerned with the large scale, but that's not it's natural place.

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Profile   Post #: 160
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