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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 5:35:08 PM   
mnottertail


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I am gonna assume for the sake of argument, that you are not using the word byzantine in reference to architecture or a period in time, or even the byzantinan culture. Please correct me if that is a grave social and political faux paux. I am thinking your connotation refers to something secretive, nefarious and scheming. I will put the best possible light on this statement you have made and try to consider it as something you belive to be true based on some experience. We often, when we misunderstand or simply do not understand something feel some paranoid about it, for instance; how many of you that don't speak spanish, when you see two spanish speaking people in front of you think that they are talking about you? Raise your hands; thank you. I think that there are those who claim to be Goreans that are nefarious, scheming and secretive.... I think there are plots in the book about that. I also think there are Goreans who are fine upstanding humans. I think they come in old and new healthy and infirm, real and online, BDSM and not. Hell, I suspect that there is someone who identifies as Gorean that has murdered someone. I see Goreans who are accepting of homosexuals, transvestites, male submissives and so on, my personal belief is that the overwhelming majority are not accepting of them. Well, it differs from the general populus how? My experience has been that the men and women I talk to, will gladly try to answer questions if asked whether the answer is percieved as good or bad. They are fairly accepting; in the main; of my not being Gorean or interested in becoming Gorean. While I am on that subject, many people are also quite closed minded about those who do not accept judeo-christianity.

End of joke. What did you come here to see? Are you different from the "VANILLA'S"? (we should also quit using that like it is a scathing thing.) If you came here to find like people and acceptance of your 'abnormal behavior' (there! flame that!) don't you owe it to the community if you publicly blurt out something like that byzantine statement to put a little expression into how that's true from experience so it can be assimilated by all of our community, and accepted or rejected out of hand? Now, I am not a peacemaker, as all of you know, and short of patience. I will assure that my flaming skills are far beyond the average mfs. I would like to see some of these Gorean threads go thru some logical conversation maybe understand more of which I don't know...... and that is how they reconcile what they see as Gorean with us or without us. Now, that's just me, and I am by no means the keeper of the right way or the only way, many others here may not want these things to go forward. But at least the inflammatory statements should be stylish.

Placidly,
Ron

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 5:47:07 PM   
Leonidas


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No, we're not plotting your demise, just your post-secondary education.

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:03:46 PM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

Gor is byzantine...


Interesting - in what way?

Peace and Love


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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:06:04 PM   
Veav


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Gor's actually a level in Max Payne.

(Byzantine Power Game, level 3-6. There is nothing I cannot make nerdier.)

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:07:29 PM   
darkinshadows


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*wipes screen from explosion due to sudden convulsion*


Peace and Love


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.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:17:54 PM   
mnottertail


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Well now, by god, if the man's humor runs that deep I owe him an apology.

You have it.

Sincerely,
Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:20:50 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I don't see why you owe him an apology. He's not the person who said Gor was Byzantine.

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:34:33 PM   
mnottertail


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Well, Lordandmaster. You are right. for that one I should have went to the Poster of the statement Supahboy rather than just tack it on to Veav.

I am rather lazy as well.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:36:02 PM   
Veav


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I accept anyway.

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 6:43:34 PM   
darkinshadows


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*wipes screen for a second time... shakes head, and LOVES you all for making me smile*

Peace and Love


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.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/20/2005 9:22:55 PM   
IronBear


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I am to some the least Gorean Master they know because I have “liberal” attitudes. Yet my base line “fixed Limits’ are pure Gor (as I interpret it). Yep I respect a kajira, I don’t treat them as beasts, I do treat them as property. But I do know that all the kajirae I know, both red hot and not so, are dedicated to serving their Gorean Masters and most would never consider having a non Gorean Master. If the OP spent time with those who Talk the talk; Walk the Walk and Live the Life, she may get a different perspective on what we refer to as Gor.

Soo what is wrong with Gor? IMHO, it is Goreans themselves who create the problems as perceived by others. We can be the most self-righteous bastards, self opinionated and intolerant to other Goreans. They can to the point of rudeness treat another Gorean in a shabby fashion because the “target” is not as Gorean as they (ITO). Gor is in our hearts, it flows through us.. However we live on earth and in earthen Communities and so we must adapt our Gorean Philosophy and style of living so as not to breach the laws of our community.

"You may judge and scorn the Goreans if you wish. Know as well, however, that they judge and scorn you. They fulfil themselves, as you do not. Hate them for their pride and power. They will pity you for your shame and weakness." Beasts of Gor pg 11


< Message edited by IronBear -- 8/20/2005 9:24:33 PM >

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 4:37:57 AM   
lovingmaster45


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quote:

It is whatever YOU want to make of it. Computer chat rooms and role play is also not reality. PLEASE find me a 24/7 REAL relationship that exists in reality with all the tenants of "GOR". That has lasted ohh say longer then 2 years.


I too have not found it Kinkypupper. It may be that I just don't get out as much as I should, but the GOR people that I have met have been a lot like the "trekkies" I have met. Lost in the fantasy world of GOR and rarely expressing their true selves...maybe they really do believe they are Dr. Spock...lol.

I am sure there are some wonderful exceptions to this; I jsut have not personally seen it.


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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:20:42 AM   
IronBear


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I strongly suspect that those who are determined to knock and ridicule Gor and those of us who life a Gorean lifestyle:

1. Enjoy ridiculing others who have different beliefs.
2. Can not stand those who do not conform to their standards or beliefs.
3. Never had a desire to be different except by being a member of a sub-community, which through sheer numbers offers support.
4. Love to sit in judgement of others.

Now I may be wrong in my suspicions but that is as may be. I know what I know from experience. I have lived a Gorean Lifestyle as have several friends local to me for many years. We all recognise that it is impossible to exist within the local, state and federal laws and remain true to the books. However, even the creator of Gor has said that the books were only a guideline for those who either role-play Gor or those who live a Gorean lifestyle. Each of us takes from the Gor Books what we need, desire and adapt it to our living. My last kajira, when she visited, begged to be leashed when we went out. Thus when we shopped or took a train into Brisbane and spent the day shopping, she was duly leashed. Why? Because it pleased me to leash her. She was my property nothing more, nothing less.

So go ahead and flame deride or ridicule Gor and Goreans all you want. All you do is to lose any respect we may have had of you. To answer a couple of emails I received; If you want us out of collerme, then have the courage to post it on the boards. Don’t be so lacking in moral fibre and hide behind emails. Of course you could use the block facility and block all the Gor supporters too.



< Message edited by IronBear -- 8/21/2005 5:29:19 AM >

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:32:39 AM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

So go ahead and flame deride or ridicule Gor and Goreans all you want. All you do is to lose any respect we may have had of you.


If I would be allowed to IronBear, that people who openly ridicule Gor or Goreans - or in fact any fetish or Lifestyle, lose respect from most, not just Goreans.(If thats what you meant by 'we'). And I find the irony in people who ridicule on one hand, and scream defense on the other when its their life under scrutiny - yet also claim the 'I don't care what people think of my ideas' - I find that very sad in my heart.

Peace and Love


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.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:36:55 AM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45

quote:

It is whatever YOU want to make of it. Computer chat rooms and role play is also not reality. PLEASE find me a 24/7 REAL relationship that exists in reality with all the tenants of "GOR". That has lasted ohh say longer then 2 years.


I too have not found it Kinkypupper. It may be that I just don't get out as much as I should, but the GOR people that I have met have been a lot like the "trekkies" I have met. Lost in the fantasy world of GOR and rarely expressing their true selves...maybe they really do believe they are Dr. Spock...lol.


You say 'trekkies' like its a BAD thing...*flicks open her communicator*lol

quote:

I am sure there are some wonderful exceptions to this; I jsut have not personally seen it.



To me, I think it is wonderful that people like yourself, although have never had contact with such people or concepts, are still open to the knoweldge that it can and may exist.

Peace and Love


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.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:37:21 AM   
IronBear


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I agree dark angel, I guess I was being selfish and focusing on Gor and Goreans, but what you say is true I believe. I have little time for anybody who ridicules other people's lifestyle. I also will stand and defend other's lifestyles.

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:49:23 AM   
caitlyn


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Nothing in the original post looked down on anyone's lifestyle, or challenged it ... or anyone's right to be in it.

Saying, "The Problem With Gor" ... doesn't invalidate the whole notion of Gor.

I can say, "The problem with Byzantine history", is ... (insert problem). That doesn't make it any less Byzantine history, or make it not worth the read, or lessen students or teachers of Byzantine history.

Some of you implied ridicule in the original post, when none was there. Some gave in return. Now some want to take the high road.

Whatever!


< Message edited by caitlyn -- 8/21/2005 5:55:05 AM >


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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:51:21 AM   
mnottertail


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IronBear,
quote:


Soo what is wrong with Gor? IMHO, it is Goreans themselves who create the problems as perceived by others. We can be the most self-righteous bastards, self opinionated and intolerant to other Goreans. They can to the point of rudeness treat another Gorean in a shabby fashion because the “target” is not as Gorean as they (ITO). Gor is in our hearts, it flows through us.. However we live on earth and in earthen Communities and so we must adapt our Gorean Philosophy and style of living so as not to breach the laws of our commu


Replace the word Gorean and it sounds just like US!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!

Do you know how many slaves we have in our community who are Old Guard and so enthralled by slavery with no limits who don't do windows?
Perhaps we can find commonality somehow, thru these VAST differences we seem to have.

By the by....I am on for the prawns, 'roo and fosters.

Didn't Paul Hogan used to hawk that stuff on tv in the states before he became Crocodile Dundee?

Smiles and well met,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 5:59:56 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Nothing in the original post looked down on anyone's lifestyle, or challenged it ... or anyone's right to be in it.

Saying, "The Problem With Gor" ... doesn't invalidate the whole notion of Gor.

I can say, "The problem with Byzantine history", is ... (insert problem). That doesn't make it any less Byzantine history, or make it not worth the read, or lessen students or teachers of Byzantine history.

Some of you implied ridicule in the original post, when none was there. Some gave in return. Now some want to take the high road.

Whatever!



caitlyn, lass, I found nothing in your post which implied trashing Gor or Gorean Lifestylers.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: The Problem With Gor - 8/21/2005 6:32:10 AM   
mnottertail


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See, that's what I'm talking about. A little grace in times of misunderstanding.

Thanks, Veav. I am whole again.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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