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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 1:25:43 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PronePalabras

indeed it is only harrassment if they are aware of it and it makes them uncomfortable ...and they make this know ...or are we going to put blinders on everyone that has hormones now? besides ...many people like to be "Admired" now and then ...nothing makes a person smile inside more than knowing someone thinks your "cute" or "hot"...how would you feel if everyone looked the other way when you walked by or bent over ect? would be rather depressing


It's harrassment if ANYONE suspects she is doing this, and feels uncomfortable about it.  Joe Blow employee could be walking by and THINK she is doing something odd and report her and a whole investigation will be launched.

Regardless of peoples' personal feelings, many states have extremely strict harrassment laws and you really can't be too careful anymore.

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 1:34:37 AM   
PronePalabras


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which i feel is abit lame all considered ...if the person in question doesnt feel "harrassed" how it is harrassment ..i see nothing wrong with smiling at a girl because you think she is cute ...as long as if she asks you not to ...you cease ...but eh laws anymore are becoming so convaluted because of "predator" types or people who just want money...ie if anyone tells you something you are doing makes them uncomfortable ..then stop doing it ...because if you dont then it becomes harrassment....

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 1:39:25 AM   
ownedgirlie


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That's the point I was trying to make - it doesnt matter what individuals feel about it. If I see Joe Blow smirking at your revealing cleavage, you might not have a problem with it, but I might.  And then I can trot on down to my Human Resources Dept and file a complaint that Joe made me uncomfortable, even though you were perfectly OK with it. 

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but it is what it is.  Those laws are stringent.

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 1:43:12 AM   
PronePalabras


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i tottally agree with you on that point...even tho it sucks

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 2:04:26 AM   
Lordandmaster


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The example you gave already crosses the line.  You can't knock things off your desk and tell your assistant to get on his hands and knees to pick it up.  Maybe you can get away with that once, but if you do it repeatedly, it's already harassment.

At least in a normal office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The story idea in my mind was that a woman in a powerful position at a company hired a younger man as an assistant or in a lower role, and then as part of his job responsibilities, had him engage in acts that were more and more designed to give her sexual pleasure and objectify him (without him knowing).   For example, if she did something as simple as drop a few things off her desk as she was getting on a call, then gestured for him to pick them all up, he would be down on the ground. and she would be observing him, imagining that he was doing so as a slave to her, as a servant. Should he actually end up on his knees, all the better, and the entire time, he would have NO idea she was watching with the explicit intent to later masturbate through the memory in her mind.   Tasks could be more and more edgy, to the point of being subjective, but never crossing the line.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 12/24/2007 2:05:15 AM >

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 2:11:11 AM   
Prinsexx


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AAkasha
I am not quite sure I understand the dynamic and I have thought about it for some time, analysing what it means and how to use it in my writing.
I am not clear what it means simply because I cannot speparate it out as a dynamic for these reasons:
1 I think society sexually objectifies almost anything these day and on the whole this is reflected as a level starting point in most advertsing ie cars are objectified animals are objectified (god how I love the silver back on drums beating to the sound of I can feel it cumming in the air tonite for the Cadbury Corporation)
2 By definition I have no idea who is doing it to me when they are doing it
3 If the number of enquiries are correct many vanilla men are obesessive about doing it, addicted, and it creates problems exactly like addiction
4 Since girl with a one track mind blog it seems women are objectifying equally and I suppose I am another girl with a one track mind and do it all the time...well I can multi-task so that's not a problem
5 I must objectify unethically since everything and almost anything becomes material for my writing and it is how I keep sane
6 Asking for informed consent is the onky real way of avoiding ethical issues and often, even in those areas of life supposedly resting upon ethics (science, psychology, social research) asking for informed consent gives the game away.
I guess being ethical is therefore an ideal and not operational.

PS  I loved the Secretary as I thought that film 'unwound' the dynamics of objectification beautifully in an erotic way and made the wanking scene understated but electric.


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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 2:57:03 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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I don't see it as being sexual harassment because he has no idea it is sexual in nature. The sexual part is in your mind and not his. Is it harassment of a general sort to make anyone pick up things for you....of course.

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 3:05:32 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: PronePalabras

indeed it is only harrassment if they are aware of it and it makes them uncomfortable ...and they make this know ...or are we going to put blinders on everyone that has hormones now? besides ...many people like to be "Admired" now and then ...nothing makes a person smile inside more than knowing someone thinks your "cute" or "hot"...how would you feel if everyone looked the other way when you walked by or bent over ect? would be rather depressing


It's harrassment if ANYONE suspects she is doing this, and feels uncomfortable about it.  Joe Blow employee could be walking by and THINK she is doing something odd and report her and a whole investigation will be launched.

Regardless of peoples' personal feelings, many states have extremely strict harrassment laws and you really can't be too careful anymore.


my first reaction was "oh what the hell, if the 'victim' doesn't know, how can it be harrassment?"  The then i read the title of this thread again... is it unethical?  And the way my mind works, the next thing i thought of was sex with an unliving person....oh hell they will NEVER know.... so maybe it's not unethical?  Would sex with a coma patient be unethical because they could possibly wake up and find out but the dead tell no tales? 
And as i allowed the twisted thoughts to travel my twisted mind, my conclusion came to what i have always believed; all ethics (sin) is in the motive not the act itself.  When a person is unaware,  someone admiring their cleavage is cool.  Someone acting to expose that cleavage in order to admire it, is not cool.  One is just an accident the other is purposeful.

edited to fix a typo

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 12/24/2007 3:50:43 AM >


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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 10:16:02 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The example you gave already crosses the line.  You can't knock things off your desk and tell your assistant to get on his hands and knees to pick it up.  Maybe you can get away with that once, but if you do it repeatedly, it's already harassment.

At least in a normal office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The story idea in my mind was that a woman in a powerful position at a company hired a younger man as an assistant or in a lower role, and then as part of his job responsibilities, had him engage in acts that were more and more designed to give her sexual pleasure and objectify him (without him knowing).   For example, if she did something as simple as drop a few things off her desk as she was getting on a call, then gestured for him to pick them all up, he would be down on the ground. and she would be observing him, imagining that he was doing so as a slave to her, as a servant. Should he actually end up on his knees, all the better, and the entire time, he would have NO idea she was watching with the explicit intent to later masturbate through the memory in her mind.   Tasks could be more and more edgy, to the point of being subjective, but never crossing the line.




You didn't read it correctly.  Nowhere did she say "get down on your hands and knees and pick it up."   Reread it. Very important that you understand clearly.

Akasha


_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 10:37:24 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Is it wrong to peep through someone’s window because they don't know what you are doing either? I think it is a very tricky area and a lot of people probably do what you mention with the risk of being caught out part of the thrill maybe. You have to ask yourself how you would feel if someone was doing it to you because people aren’t stupid and at some point they do realise what is going on. It then becomes a case of if they can accept it in good humour or not.

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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 11:24:02 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Ummm...it doesn't matter.  If you repeatedly knock things onto the floor in order to get off on watching your assistant stoop down to pick them up, it's harassment.

Or just try it yourself if you don't want to take my word for it.  It didn't seem to derail Clarence Thomas's career, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The example you gave already crosses the line.  You can't knock things off your desk and tell your assistant to get on his hands and knees to pick it up.  Maybe you can get away with that once, but if you do it repeatedly, it's already harassment.

At least in a normal office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The story idea in my mind was that a woman in a powerful position at a company hired a younger man as an assistant or in a lower role, and then as part of his job responsibilities, had him engage in acts that were more and more designed to give her sexual pleasure and objectify him (without him knowing).   For example, if she did something as simple as drop a few things off her desk as she was getting on a call, then gestured for him to pick them all up, he would be down on the ground. and she would be observing him, imagining that he was doing so as a slave to her, as a servant. Should he actually end up on his knees, all the better, and the entire time, he would have NO idea she was watching with the explicit intent to later masturbate through the memory in her mind.   Tasks could be more and more edgy, to the point of being subjective, but never crossing the line.



You didn't read it correctly.  Nowhere did she say "get down on your hands and knees and pick it up."   Reread it. Very important that you understand clearly.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 11:32:40 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Ummm...it doesn't matter.  If you repeatedly knock things onto the floor in order to get off on watching your assistant stoop down to pick them up, it's harassment.

Or just try it yourself if you don't want to take my word for it.  It didn't seem to derail Clarence Thomas's career, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The example you gave already crosses the line.  You can't knock things off your desk and tell your assistant to get on his hands and knees to pick it up.  Maybe you can get away with that once, but if you do it repeatedly, it's already harassment.

At least in a normal office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The story idea in my mind was that a woman in a powerful position at a company hired a younger man as an assistant or in a lower role, and then as part of his job responsibilities, had him engage in acts that were more and more designed to give her sexual pleasure and objectify him (without him knowing).   For example, if she did something as simple as drop a few things off her desk as she was getting on a call, then gestured for him to pick them all up, he would be down on the ground. and she would be observing him, imagining that he was doing so as a slave to her, as a servant. Should he actually end up on his knees, all the better, and the entire time, he would have NO idea she was watching with the explicit intent to later masturbate through the memory in her mind.   Tasks could be more and more edgy, to the point of being subjective, but never crossing the line.



You didn't read it correctly.  Nowhere did she say "get down on your hands and knees and pick it up."   Reread it. Very important that you understand clearly.



You are forgetting the part about this scenario that describes it as a FICTIONAL incident.  It's a hypothetical situation designed to get people to discuss their limitations and boundaries.  I tend to be on the extremely conservative side (you left that part out) and most people here are tending to go the opposite way.  The fictional scenario I describe is not something I would do. That's the point.  However, many people seem to think it's fairly ok.  You did read incorrectly, though, in stating that the person in this fictional scenario said "Get down on your hands and knees and pick it up," which is nowhere near what was described.  Not sure where you got that - your own fantasy perhaps? I thought the subtle nature of the exchange was important to the ethical line of the discussion.

Akasha


_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 11:38:37 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The example you gave already crosses the line.  You can't knock things off your desk and tell your assistant to get on his hands and knees to pick it up.  Maybe you can get away with that once, but if you do it repeatedly, it's already harassment.

At least in a normal office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The story idea in my mind was that a woman in a powerful position at a company hired a younger man as an assistant or in a lower role, and then as part of his job responsibilities, had him engage in acts that were more and more designed to give her sexual pleasure and objectify him (without him knowing).   For example, if she did something as simple as drop a few things off her desk as she was getting on a call, then gestured for him to pick them all up, he would be down on the ground. and she would be observing him, imagining that he was doing so as a slave to her, as a servant. Should he actually end up on his knees, all the better, and the entire time, he would have NO idea she was watching with the explicit intent to later masturbate through the memory in her mind.   Tasks could be more and more edgy, to the point of being subjective, but never crossing the line.




You didn't read it correctly.  Nowhere did she say "get down on your hands and knees and pick it up."   Reread it. Very important that you understand clearly.

Akasha



To be honest, when I was the assistant to senior executives, if any of them dropped something and told me to pick it up, I'd laugh.

Once the Chief Admin Officer, a new boss for me at the time (he had moved into our office), held up his cup and said to bring him more coffee. I paused and then burst out laughing, saying, "Oh, you want COPIES!!  Hahahaha, for a minute there I thought you were telling me to get your COFFEE!!! Hahahahahaha....."

Seriously.  I'm dealing with SEC regulations for the CEO and this schmuck wants me to get his coffee?  I'd feel the same about someone who wanted me to pick up the items dropped off his/her desk.

He did try one more time, though.  He actually handed me his cup and, as he was saying, "Be a dear and fill this up for me" I let it accidentally slip through my hands and fall to the floor.

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: The ethics of sexually objectifying others - 12/24/2007 12:48:02 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Once the Chief Admin Officer, a new boss for me at the time (he had moved into our office), held up his cup and said to bring him more coffee. I paused and then burst out laughing, saying, "Oh, you want COPIES!!  Hahahaha, for a minute there I thought you were telling me to get your COFFEE!!! Hahahahahaha....."

Seriously.  I'm dealing with SEC regulations for the CEO and this schmuck wants me to get his coffee?  I'd feel the same about someone who wanted me to pick up the items dropped off his/her desk.

He did try one more time, though.  He actually handed me his cup and, as he was saying, "Be a dear and fill this up for me" I let it accidentally slip through my hands and fall to the floor.


*smiles*  And i am the schmuck who says "I'm going for coffee, can I bring you some?"  Let me tell you, it really throws them off!!!  They don't know HOW to react! LOL

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No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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