Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

My advice for novice female submissives


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> My advice for novice female submissives Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 9:46:38 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
Since Pink Pleasures has pointed out that she feels that those of us with experience do not give advice to those who are new, I've put together a list of what I consider to be essential thoughts. These are in no particular order and it's rather long.

1) The only rule is: Do Not Harm. This means mentally or physically. Any other rules you choose to accept you get to thoroughly own.

2) There is not a rule book that has been distributed to everyone else and missed you. Anybody who tells you how D/s is done is blowing smoke up your butt. There are as many variations to this lifestyle as there are people in this world. You do not have to accept someone else's version of this lifestyle.

3) Before you are contracted or collared to someone, you make your own decisions. It is perfectly okay to not do what a Dominant tells you to before you are collared or contracted to that Dominant. Matter of fact, I would recommend not obeying every schmuck that comes along calling himself a Dominant. Find out for yourself if he's a Dominant, and then obey if you are so inclined.

4) Before you contract to a Dominant or become collared by a Dominant: NEGOTIATE! This is your time to lay out your hard limits along with yours and his expectations about the relationship. If your expectation is that it will be a monogamous relationship and his expectation is for it to be an open or poly relationship it's best to find out before you commit. This is also a good time to ask questions like: A) What happens if I get pregnant? B) What happens if I move across the country for you, quit my job for you and you release me, abuse me, or make me so miserable I want to cut my heart out with a plastic spoon? C) Are we having unprotected sex and if so, may I see the certificate from the doctor regarding your HIV and STD tests? Put all this writing and both of you sign it. It won't mean squat in a court of law, but it will cover your butt in the case of arguments.

5) Safety, Safety, Safety. Dead subsmissives don't serve. Use your head. If a Dominant is about to do something to you that can cause you harm, speak up and possibly get out. There are a lot of inexperienced players out there that believe the Sleeping Beauty Books are real.

6) There will be a lot of people proclaiming that they are Dominants and Masters to you. Some of them are wonderful, incredible people, some are full of crap, some of them are looking for easy sex, and some of them are down right delusional. Understand that actions will always speak louder than words. I can proclaim myself the Queen of the United States and then demand that all of you send me your taxes so I can quit my job and build a 1600sf $5million house in Laguna Beach, but you're not going to do it, right? Be aware that there are people that search out novices because they know that they can take advantage of you.

7) There is always someone out there that will appreciate what you bring to the table. Don't change who you are to suit somebody else, simply because they say so. Men out number women in the scene 3 to 1. So, there are a lot of fish in the sea. Don't settle for someone that doesn't fit you.

8) There is a difference between domineering and Dominant. Webster's Dictionary says: Dominant - ruling or prevailing, Domineering - harsh, arrogant, tyrannizing, overbearing. Dominants shouldn't feel the need to be bullies. If someone does act that way...run away....fast.

9) Get yourself a mentor. Mentors DO NOT play or have sexual relations with the submissive they are mentoring. Mentors are there to teach protocol, to protect and to guide. This means you should get a mentor in your own community, not some online guy half way around the world. The reason is simple; if my Master were your mentor and you came to him and said, "I have been asked to play by Dom XXXX." Master would tell you no. Why? Because the guy has put at least 2 women in the hospital and was actually taken to court by an ex-submissive. We know this because we live in the same geographic area as Dom XXXX. Some guy in Chicago would not know this.

10) You do not have to call every Dominant "Sir" or "Master". If it you want to call every Dominant "sir" then do it. If you don't, then don't do it.

11) There are people that will tell you that you're not submissive. Many will do it hopes that they can goad you into doing what they want in your effort to prove that you are submissive. Bottom line, until they've met you face to face...it's just cyberspace.

12) We're in this lifestyle because it makes us happy. If you take it too seriously, you will take all the fun out of it. Have a sense of humor.

When it comes to meeting Dominants:
1) Meet on your turf. Some place you're familiar with, in public with a well lit parking lot. I usually made it coffee at the local coffeehouse or drinks at a bar where conversations were possible. I would NEVER EVER meet somebody at a hotel or their home. I didn't do dinners because a) it's not easy extricate yourself if it's going miserably and b) sometimes people that buy dinner think they've bought you.

2) Never get into his car, even at the end of the evening. I also wouldn't recommend allowing him to walk you to your car. A string of rapes happened in the LA community where the "Dom" pushed the submissive into either his car or her car.

3) Get caller ID blocking on your phone and you call him. Preferably on his home phone number. I generally would not continue with anyone that refused to give me their home phone or lied about whether the number they gave me was their home phone. You can check to see if it's a cell phone by using Reverse Directory. It will tell you if a phone number is assigned to a cell phone company.

4) Wear whatever you want and are comfortable in. Until you are contracted or collared to that Dominant what you wear is your choice. I used to make a point of wearing either jeans or my business clothes to the first meeting. I did this because these pieces of clothing reflect who I am, if he can't accept that, then he's obviously not the person for me.

5) Be wary of people that start conversation off with: "Are you submissive?" " How large are your breasts?" "Do you like anal sex?" "What are your limits?" My general rule of thumb is that if the first thing they ask me is about sex or my submission, they're more interested in what I am, versus who I am. Anybody who focuses purely on the sexual part of your life will most likely only be there for the sex. If this is all you're looking for, fantastic. But, if you're looking for long term, this most likely is not the person for you.

6) I always made it perfectly clear that there would be no sex or S&M on the first meeting. In fact, there probably wouldn't be sex or S&M for the 3 to 5 dates. This is the stage where I'm still determining if I even like them, never mind trust them with my life. If a Dominant was unwilling to wait until I was comfortable, I wouldn't meet them. After all, I like to think I'm worth the wait.

7) Have a safe call. But, I do it differently than most. I usually told my meetings that I had an hour or so to meet them, and then I had plans with friends. After an hour was up, I would call a friend that I had made arrangements with. At that point, I would either tell her that I was on my way or was running a little late and would call when I left. The deal was that "a little late" was 30 minutes. If she did not hear from me 30 minutes later she was to call my cell phone. If I was in trouble I answered with a pre-arranged sentence.

8) Use common sense. The same idiosyncrasies exist in the D/s BDSM realm as the vanilla realm. This means that if you act like a one night stand, you probably will be a one night stand. If you cry to everyone about how he used you and never called again....some subs will try to comfort you, some subs will wonder what the hell you expected and some Doms will send you tons of email because you,re obviously easy.

9) I really don't recommend quitting your job and moving across the country to become someone's live in 24/7 slave/submissive without a concrete plan on how to extricate yourself in case it doesn't work out. Think about how difficult it would be to get out of that situation with no money and no support network.

10) I believe that the absolute best way to meet people is to be active in your local BDSM D/s group. Attend munches, volunteer as help for fetish events, be involved. This serves two purposes. It gives you a local support network and allows you to get a better idea of the reputations of the people out there. Unfortunately, asking for references can be faked in this day and age. Knowing the community is the best way to learn if someone is safe.

11) If they've lied about age, height, weight, or whether they have submissives or a wife, I would just drop it right there. Lying about the first three shows me that they're willing to lie about something insubstantial, which makes me worry about how easy it would for them to lie about the big stuff. The second two shows me that they're willing to lie to the most important people in their lives, and they would not hesitate to lie to me too. This is a lifestyle based on trust and if I'm going to put my life your hands, goddammit I have to be able to trust you.

This is all that I can think of at the moment. I'm sure others will have additions to the list. I'm sure some will feel the need to flame me. Please understand these are my thoughts and practices that have come about through my experiences. You mileage may vary.


< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 8/20/2005 10:01:52 AM >


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 9:57:32 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
as an aside, it looks like pinkpleasures has had some influence at least in the immediate vicinity of her posts, regardless of font or point or color.


This is good.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 10:00:05 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

whoops

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 10:00:46 AM   
LookingforDad


Posts: 8
Joined: 7/3/2005
Status: offline
WOW. i appreciate this well thought out and well written response to a call for information and support.

i will only whine because you all the way in california and can't be a local resource for me.

Thanks again.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Stephanie

Providence has hidden a charm in difficult undertakings which is appreciated only by those who dare to grapple with them.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 10:21:21 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
I think this is all good advice, and I would recommend everyone take those things into account- not just submissive females. This advice can apply to dominants, too.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 10:24:55 AM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline
Thanks...great advice for all of us. I also rely on my gut instincts about people. I have rarely beeen wrong through the years...that female intuition...got to love it!

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 1:07:01 PM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Before you are contracted or collared to someone, you make your own decisions. It is perfectly okay to not do what a Dominant tells you to before you are collared or contracted to that Dominant.

After you're contracted or collared, you still make your own decisions. That's how you can choose to get out at any time, ne?

quote:

I can proclaim myself the Queen of the United States and then demand that all of you send me your taxes so I can quit my job and build a 1600sf $5million house in Laguna Beach, but you're not going to do it, right?


It worked for Emperor Norton, didn't it? }:D

No, seriously... these are some good general guidelines. They won't apply to all situations, but no rule of thumb does.

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 1:28:54 PM   
MstrHellsFury


Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
get you act together...these should be well thought out..organized in secquincal order...titled.and subtitled...listed from most important to least important...sent to a proff...edited...then put in e-book for sale...you're slipping...now I don't want to see this half hearted work coming from you again....( good job...lots to see and think on..not only for beginners but for some of us old salts who ..mind failing ..have done just out of routine)...now give yourself a cookie...you may have saved a life today...

Fury

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 3:09:35 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

3) Before you are contracted or collared to someone, you make your own decisions. It is perfectly okay to not do what a Dominant tells you to before you are collared or contracted to that Dominant. Matter of fact, I would recommend not obeying every schmuck that comes along calling himself a Dominant. Find out for yourself if he's a Dominant, and then obey if you are so inclined.


Even when in a contract or collared - a submissive still has to be true to themself and has the ability to leave at any time and make decisions.

quote:

10) You do not have to call every Dominant "Sir" or "Master". If it you want to call every Dominant "sir" then do it. If you don't, then don't do it.


I disagree.
If you desire to call every person who is a dominant 'Sir' - do so only after you have asked the dominant if its ok to do so. Otherwise, the sub or slave is no better than some self prolaimed person insisting on being called 'Mater' or 'Sir'. Some doms hate the word Sir or Lady - and if they say so at any time - then dont be disrespectful by still insisting in calling them what you want. I personally believe that its polite to ask how someone preferes to be addressed and not assume its just OK to call them what I want to. Communication is everything. If a person is submissive enough to want to call a dominant Sir or Ma'am, then they are submissive enough to ask if its ok to call them that.

Peace and Love


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 4:19:34 PM   
mossy


Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline
i'm with MstrHellsFury, excellent job.....Us old salts sometimes forget as much as we know
It has been a long time since i thought i had to read anything such as your very precious words... something important to read in there thanks a lot. Very thorough job!!!
3 to 1 huh? <<edited to add:)

< Message edited by mossy -- 8/20/2005 4:21:20 PM >


_____________________________

~~inner peace & mental clarity~~

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 4:25:48 PM   
greeneyedangel


Posts: 25
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. i often have many questions but no where to go for answers and alot of what you said clarified some of them. i think we need to go with our "gut" feeling in a lot of situations. we need to think with our head, not with our heart and this goes for Doms as well as subs.
Thank you again Oside


_____________________________

the green eyed angel


"For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul."

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 4:38:18 PM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
Good points, overall. I'd quibble with a couple of issues, however:
First, while it's natural to want the protection that comes with anonymity, that cuts both ways. It's not really reasonable to want to get a lot of personal information or positive ID, confirmation of marital status, etc, from someone unless you're giving out the same. While it may be that men present, statistically, more risk of rape and murder, it's not the case that being a woman or a submissive or both makes a person sane, safe or trustworthy. Anyone meeting a stranger, in or out of the lifestyle, is taking some risk. Don't expect someone to trust you significantly more than you're willing to trust them.
Second, 'mentoring' is an undefined term. There are no more official rules for this than for the rest of BDSM. Some people have mentoring relationships that involve play- and if that's what has been agreed upon up front, there's nothing wrong with it. Some people want to learn with a minimum of emotional involvement.

Cane

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 7:29:38 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

Good points, overall. I'd quibble with a couple of issues, however:
First, while it's natural to want the protection that comes with anonymity, that cuts both ways. It's not really reasonable to want to get a lot of personal information or positive ID, confirmation of marital status, etc, from someone unless you're giving out the same. While it may be that men present, statistically, more risk of rape and murder, it's not the case that being a woman or a submissive or both makes a person sane, safe or trustworthy. Anyone meeting a stranger, in or out of the lifestyle, is taking some risk. Don't expect someone to trust you significantly more than you're willing to trust them.
Second, 'mentoring' is an undefined term. There are no more official rules for this than for the rest of BDSM. Some people have mentoring relationships that involve play- and if that's what has been agreed upon up front, there's nothing wrong with it. Some people want to learn with a minimum of emotional involvement.

Cane


Agreed Cane. I never asked for license or social security number. Just the home phone number. This came about as a way to cut out the married men. Mentoring is an undefined term, what is presented is my personal view on the subject. Everyone needs to take the responsibility to determine what works for them.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to CitizenCane)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 7:53:31 PM   
ragdoll


Posts: 231
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: New England
Status: offline
this list came at a really good time for me.

thanks...

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 10:12:15 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
I agree with almost all of thep oints and think it is a marvelous list filled with good ole good sense.

But I balk on the mentor part. The whole mentor concept is such a flawed one in the scene these days that I can't recommend it. It's only through pure luck that I ever see a mentor situation actually work out with a newbie.

The CONCEPT of mentors are great, but I never see it work out realistically through any part of knowledge and good decision making on the part of the sub.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 10:14:04 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
Excelent post. May I copy it to another site I'm a member of? (The Bear is being lazy here)



_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/20/2005 11:22:06 PM   
PrivateLabel


Posts: 8
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel
to call every person who is a dominant 'Sir' - do so only after you have asked the dominant if its ok to do so. ...
... If a person is submissive enough to want to call a dominant Sir or Ma'am, then they are submissive enough to ask if its ok to call them that.

Peace and Love[/center][/font][/size]


My mother and grandmother raised me to be polite. I say "sir" and "ma'am" to most people, out of common politeness. I refuse to stop doing so just because someone is/is not a dominant.

Why have we forgoitten common politieness and courtesy? It doesn't matter what sex you are, holding the door open for another person is polite, and I for one feel good when someone does so for me, and I feel good in receiving a smile from someone else when I do so for them.



(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/21/2005 3:48:24 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

My mother and grandmother raised me to be polite. I say "sir" and "ma'am" to most people, out of common politeness. I refuse to stop doing so just because someone is/is not a dominant.

Why have we forgoitten common politieness and courtesy? It doesn't matter what sex you are, holding the door open for another person is polite, and I for one feel good when someone does so for me, and I feel good in receiving a smile from someone else when I do so for them.

PrivateLabel


i picked up "Sir" and "Ma'am" living in the South. i also use it in emails i send to men on collarme. i say "Sir" and "Ma'am" to the people who work at McDonald's. People are entitled to be treated with dignity unless they take action to put themselves out of the pale.

i also feel that people working for minimum wage -- particulary the grown men and women -- are so marginalized in our society they resemble the "Untouchable" class in Hindu classification of individuals. i make a SPECIAL effort to address them as "Sir" and "Ma'am" to acknowledge their dignity.

http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm

When i practiced law for the state of Florida, i was almost always there after the other lawyers had left and in time to meet the cleaning crew. i knew all their names and they knew mine. We would chat a bit before they left to go on to another floor. They were good people and some were very bright. In some instances, discussing my current case they would occassionally give me an idea for a new "dirty lawyer trick", ROFL. i enjoyed those relationships.

quote:

When I work, at times its the right situation to call someone Sir or Madam - but it isn't just about politeness, its about manners and respect. In a BDSM context, its isnt' a necessity to call someone Sir or Ma'am and if someone says to you directly - 'Please do not call me Sir, it makes me uncomfortable' - what are you going to do - refuse? - Now THAT is bad manners.

dark-angel


i am unwilling to change my use of "Sir" and "Ma'am" simply because i have found D/s and am searching for my One. With all due deference to dark-angel, i use "Sir" or "Ma'am", but naturally i would cease to do so if it offended Someone. How odd that language is so constrained in D/s. My mentor taught me it was disrespectful to curse in front of a Master or Dom. Now comes the opposite end of the spectrum -- a challenge to when i can use "Sir" or "Ma'am". If feels very odd to disagree with dark-angel, but in truth, only one Man has ever asked that i not use "Sir" in our conversations. So i struggled to respect His wishes by using His first name over and over...LOL..His name was soooooo much longer than "Sir". Twas a nuisance, but respect is shown by using the language P/pl request as T/their polite words/nicks/first names.

BTW: i feel strongly the speaker's request to be addressed a certain way is a two-way street. P/pl on site and my friends generally do not offend me with variations of my nick/first name -- but only IronBear is permitted to call me a "lady". That just does not fit; i am no more a "lady" than a cartoon character. My childhood was "interesting" and i am a real, live NY girl, with a Code of Conduct, etc., that scarecly fits a "lady". IronBear has special priviledges because i just adore Him and He asked so sweetly, LOL.

This issue comes up constantly in the chat rooms here on collarme; i have not seen it on other chat sites. Men give Themselves nicks like "SirUniversalMaster" and then balk when the women address Them as "SUM", LOL.

To me this smacks of the endless discussions about spelling and grammar. If i am able to communicate my thoughts by some means, why is it anyone else's business (apart from the person to whom i am speaking) whether i am cursing or being polite?

pinkpleasures


< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/21/2005 6:02:06 AM >


_____________________________



(in reply to PrivateLabel)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/21/2005 4:09:12 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

Since Pink Pleasures has pointed out that she feels that those of us with experience do not give advice to those who are new, I've put together a list of what I consider to be essential thoughts. These are in no particular order and it's rather long.

OsideGirl


First, i am submissive woman and would appreciate being addressed using lower case letters. As many on the boards know, i am "fussy" about my avatar, my font, etc. Also, i get enough email from male submissives begging me to Domme them as it is; so please do not add to the confusion.

Second, it seems you may have an "issue"" with me. This amazes me, since i have never seen your nick before. However, i strongly prefer such matters be handled in private, not on the boards. Please feel free to email and let me know what your issue is.

i do not think i ever said anyone failed new people by ignoring safety issues. What i have said is that there exist "pre-incident indicators" as Gavin DeBecker calls them, which, when present, should be noticed and possibly indicate a Man or woman should end contact.

("The Gift of Fear"; Gavin DeBecker; copyright 1997.)

Put another way, i have suggested abuse/con games/other drama can be PREVENTED to some degree using the "pre-incident indicators". First and foremost of such indicators is that the Man or woman instinctively feels something is not right about the person to whom they are speaking. DeBecker says, and i agree, that instinct is a powerful ally in preventing abuse/con games/drama/etc.

For reasons which escape me, there are some who take offense at the idea that anything can be done by way of prevention. To end a silly conflict with them, i have said i will no longer post on the subject. A/anyone wishing to know more should read DeBecker's book.

pinkpleasures


< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/21/2005 6:03:34 AM >


_____________________________



(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: My advice for novice female submissives - 8/21/2005 4:12:44 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

as an aside, it looks like pinkpleasures has had some influence at least in the immediate vicinity of her posts, regardless of font or point or color.


This is good.

Ron


Thank You, kind Sir.

pinkpleasures


_____________________________



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> My advice for novice female submissives Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.527