looking at America ideals since 9-11 (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 9:44:24 AM)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?ex=1356757200&en=897fa0a3393f8a22&ei=5124&partner=digg&exprod=digg




christine1 -> RE: looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 9:57:39 AM)

 i stopped reading the article after it started blaming Bush for everything,  i don't agree with all he does or fails to do, but i do realize that there is more than just one man in our government who is accountable for things.

one thing that does surprise me though, is why border security hasn't become more of an issue, i find it very frustrating that most americans see that as a real issue and our "representatives" wont' listen to us there.




PrimeVector -> RE: looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 10:22:17 AM)

re: the "border security" that christine1 mentions, I completely agree.  There's been a few publicized instances here in Washington State along our border with Canada with foreign nationals getting caught bringing over explosives, or more recently about 20 illegals from China in the process of being smuggled across and only getting caught because an alert rancher noticed them...

That said, perhaps this side-topic needs it's own thread.  I don't know if it relates to American Ideals other than since 9-11 we've become much more cautious and aware that there actually "are" other people in the world who "do" want to hurt us and/or take advantage of us... and that's a sort of loss of idealistic innocence, one could argue.

Well, there's always hope for 2008... Happy New Year...




pahunkboy -> RE: looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 2:51:58 PM)

customs fricken stops every little pill=-  90-95% now as apposeed to 50% a few yrs ago!  They stop that but let leaded toys in for children, cat food that kills your cat, toothpaste w antifreaze in it. tires that blow out on hot road... and food stuffs that are anyones guess. But hey- we are safe from meds from overseas!




Termyn8or -> RE: looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 4:11:43 PM)

Hunky, this has been going on for five thousand years.

I read the article, nice piece. But where does that get us ?

The article says they hope we get a better President. But they fail to mention who that is. All the frontrunners in the media will not investigate these crimes very much, but there is one who would.

But if we elect that one guess what happens. Look at a country where welfare is all but gone, where young people opt out of social security bankrupting our old folks. Look at a nation that oulaws introductory rates on loans, or at least introductory "spreads" which is the difference either between prime or LIBOR, and the rate you pay. Look at a cpuntry where the government forces banks to operate responsibly and in the public interest.

That means if you qualify for a house that is $92,251.04 and it costs $92,251.05 you better find a penny. They are giving hundred thousand dollar houses to people on welfare. There is program by which people on welfare and SSI whatever can actually buy houses. This is ridiculous. When we bought this place they wanted to see six months worth of bill money in the bank.

And at the time some of my tax money went to bail people out for stupid decisions, and banks for the same reason, and they are supposed to know what they are doing.

Then look for a drastic change in the tax structure. Get the right guy in, the IRS's job changes overnight. I see this as a VAT like they have in Europe and the abolishment of income tax as we know it. The taxman doesn't bother me, but I remember years ago, you make seven hundred dollars a week and take home four.

But see if everything is like a VAT or sales tax, if you go from taking home $400 a week to $700, you wouldn't care much if gas went to five bucks a gallon. Tax is tax. Somebody has to pay.

This plan also nullifies thousands of lawsuits a year, accounting costs for every business in the country and less prying into our personal lives BY A PRIVATE CORPOATION BASED IN DELEWARE, known as the IRS. But they are not all out of a job, they will do well collecting the VAT or whatever our equivalent of it is.

But I guarantee that if we get the right guy in, there will be personal sacrifices by all. It is not only the fat cats who have been living high off the hog, We The People have gotten into the habit. And it is hard to break. Mark my words. Things are going to get tough sooner or later, and the later it is, the tougher they will be.

Now is not the time for us to start living within our means, it was ten years ago , perhaps twenty.

In the old days you wanted a house or car you save up your money. Now you got payments on everything, from essentials like a house and car, to the useless plasma TV that will break down before it's paid off and the Xbox that makes your children stupid.

And that article did not even touch upon the advanced spying technology they now employ every day. I don't want to put all the details on this thread, but suffice it to say that Santa really does know when you are sleeping and when you are awake.

They do not let people know about this advanced technology, it is not in their best interests to do so. Wanna know why ? Read on.

They have cabinets in some of the cop cars which have a bunch of ultrasonic tranducers mounted in an array. If an angry mob approaches, they feed it with a certain waveform at a certain frequency and everyone feels like they have to take a piss really bad, right now. Another waveform can make them all nauseous.

They do not use it much because they do not want people to know about it. But you have heard the phrase "police cars overturned". This does not happen anymore. Maybe it does, but very rarely.

I tell you this is secret, but not completely. I know of this because I know how to research electronics, as it is my field. I know these things exist, and I understand their principle of operation, as well as those of the wideband spectography that can spot one pot plant in a ten acre corn field. I know this shit exists.

As one of the Founding Fathers of this country put it "those who would trade their freedom for safety will lose both", something like that. Look at us, we are not free and we are not safe. They must have been right.

Then we have Franklin "Neither a borrower nor a lender be". Think about that one for a minute, if we did that, where would we be ?

Alot fucking closer to utopia I would think, than we are now.

That's the thing, the average guy has to get his eye off of the football game, American Idol, even Jeopardy. Get real. Get into what is real. Pay attention to what is real. Then we will shoot all the politicians.

The movie Red Heat, Arnold was here tracking a fugitive. Teamed him up with one of our regular cops. It may been Jim Belushi, Arnold and he were in a car and Arnold said something like "shoot all the drug dealers" Belusi('s character) replied "the politicians would never allow it" and Arnold said "shoot them first".

We are so fucked that the light from fucked takes twelve minutes to get here. For the non-scientifically inclined, it takes eight minutes from the sun, which is 93 million miles away.

But the point is, the shit sandwich is growing, if we take a bite now it won't be as big. And if we simply continue on our present course the shit sandwich will cover the Earth, and it will swallow us.

These fucking suits, people who never worked a fucking day in their life just take and take and take. And they are rich, things coudn't be better. And we die, in their wars and their shitty hospitals, not the ones they can afford to go to. Their sons all have college deferrment, our sons are exposed to depleted uranium which destroys them.

This is how it is folks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but to fix this we must give up alot, and we have to play God.

Yup We have to kill alot of people. Get the population of the US down to say 40 million or so. You know what that means ? Even if you don't have to go, what of your friends and family ? What of mine indeed. What of me ?

What if by standards that I myself put forth, I must die, or leave the country ? Could happen.

I will tell you this much though, by their actions, the government has killed any last vestige of loyalty I might have ever had for them. But not my patriotism.

Welcome to my nightmare.

T




Owner59 -> RE: looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 10:48:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

i stopped reading the article after it started blaming Bush for everything,  i don't agree with all he does or fails to do, but i do realize that there is more than just one man in our government who is accountable for things.

one thing that does surprise me though, is why border security hasn't become more of an issue, i find it very frustrating that most americans see that as a real issue and our "representatives" wont' listen to us there.


"started blaming Bush for everything" 

Ok.I can simplify it.

The border, and illegal immigration,are federal issues.The guy who runs the federal government,is Bush.
He get`s the credit,and the blame also.

Who else is in charge?Name them.

Congress doesn`t run the border, neither do the courts.The executive branch does.

Who else is in charge of foreign policy, or the State Department?Who else tried to sell or ports and their security,to an Arab nation?

Should we blame, the Canadians?




Owner59 -> RE: looking at America ideals since 9-11 (1/1/2008 11:04:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrimeVector

re: the "border security" that christine1 mentions, I completely agree.  There's been a few publicized instances here in Washington State along our border with Canada with foreign nationals getting caught bringing over explosives, or more recently about 20 illegals from China in the process of being smuggled across and only getting caught because an alert rancher noticed them...

That said, perhaps this side-topic needs it's own thread.  I don't know if it relates to American Ideals other than since 9-11 we've become much more cautious and aware that there actually "are" other people in the world who "do" want to hurt us and/or take advantage of us... and that's a sort of loss of idealistic innocence, one could argue.

Well, there's always hope for 2008... Happy New Year...



That said, perhaps this side-topic needs it's own thread.
 
Very true.But there are some very defencive people posting here.
 
Why is that?

Can`t the  Bush record, stand on it`s own?

On lossing our supposed innocence.....It was more of a loss of ignorance,on 9/11.We had the luxury of not having to deal with terrorism,the way the rest of the word had.On 9/11,we only joined with the rest of  the world,and it`s struggle againts terrorism.

We were asleep,the whole time up to that point.Now we act like we`re the "experts" on the subject.
We`re so fucked.




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