Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (Full Version)

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MrThorns -> Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 7:43:13 AM)

I'm one of those people that tend to knock online BDSM for various reasons, although I will admit that the internet assisted me in learning more about BDSM initially and that I found my slave online and maintained a VLDR (Very-long distance relationship > 10,000 miles) for over a year. So what's my issue with online?

I feel as though many people stop there. They accept the teachings of Castlerealm or Steel~door as gospel without consulting other sources. I feel as though these sites promote many of the misconceptions regarding BDSM.

Detatchment from reality. I've hung out in my share of chat rooms and message boards and it always cracks me up to watch dominants riding in, mounted upon some mythical beast or another and making the earth tremble with their arrival....announcing with a thunderous voice that all the "Slave Biatches" may now serve them.

Same goes for the slaves that suddenly materialize through the mist (slaves use mist...dominants use fire and/or thunder...it's the law.) and kneel upon the furs in front of the nearest available dominant. Maybe I AM being judgemental about how other people choose to experience their fantasies, but you would be surprised at how many people try and take this behavior offline....and that's the real issue that I am getting at.

Some bondage techniques sound great online, but are quite lethal in real life.

A rusty barbed wire flogger may lead to some medical issues.

Kajirae(kajiras?) don't poot flower blossoms.

Do you personally feel that the internet has been a helpful tool or has it become more of a hinderance? Why do you feel that way?

Inquiring minds and all...

~Thorns




MsIncognito -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 7:52:07 AM)

I feel it's both for many of the reasons you've cited. It's a great source for information, but beyond that it doesn't hold much appeal for me. Information, sharing points of view and discourse are always helpful to me in learning. However, there is a limit to how much 'book learning' is really helpful. At some point you have to get out there and do it, feel it, experience it. Those who don't (or haven't yet) don't realize how unrealistic their ideals are until they actually do so. I know I didn't.



CitizenCane -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 7:58:52 AM)

I think I interact with people on these sites mostly because I'm a bit of an optimist- I think it might lead to a connection with someone I'm not too likely to meet in the rather restricted environment I live in (Idaho... yeesh). In reality, I've had even less direct benefits than you have, however- I met my girl in person (oh my god, no safe calls... a real-life meeting with no warning whatsoever!), and I'd been learning and developing my ideas and practices for a long time r/t before I ever got onto the internet (I didn't always live in Idaho...). Nevertheless, it's nice to be able to exchange ideas with others, and who knows? Maybe our third will show up on this very site. So, overall, it's been little help and no hindrance- but sometimes it's entertaining.


Cane



Cykotica -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 8:29:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns



Do you personally feel that the internet has been a helpful tool or has it become more of a hinderance? Why do you feel that way?

Inquiring minds and all...

~Thorns





Like MsIncognito said. I feel it's a bit of both. While I've been involved in a d/s relationship for quite some time, it's only been a few years since I discovered bdsm did exist on the internet. I chat quite frequently now, but even so, I feel at times that the internet promotes a fantasy that can't exist in the real world.


quote:


I feel as though many people stop there. They accept the teachings of Castlerealm or Steel~door as gospel without consulting other sources. I feel as though these sites promote many of the misconceptions regarding BDSM.


I agree with this one hundred percent. When people ask me for advice as a newbie, my standard response is: 'Read everything you can get your hands on, and make sure to digest it all with a grain of salt' Nothing you read online will be able to answer any question to it's fullest extent in the way it will come across in your own life. Only experience will teach you how to handle situations.

That being said, I'm not a snob when it comes to online bdsm. If people want to chat, and play at a d/s relationship online, more power to them. I only seem to have a problem when people quote said sites (Castlerealm, steel-door) and use it as a reference for telling me that I'm doing something wrong in my real life relationship. I'm certainly open to people disagreeing with my practices, as long as their disagreement is based on something other than a how-to manual they've picked up online.



Faramir -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 8:33:20 AM)

Since the internet vastly expands the pool of people who communicate in a given subs-ection, I dig it.

I met my slave online, and I realize even in the pool of internet BDSM how lucky that was - how I found a needle in a haystack. If I had been limited to finding a woman who wants a loving, violent M/s relationship based on daily social interaction in my rural southern county - I'd have been fucked.



OsideGirl -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 8:35:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

Do you personally feel that the internet has been a helpful tool or has it become more of a hinderance? Why do you feel that way?



Yes.

The internet is a great tool. It allowed many of us to realise that we were not alone. It can be a great place for research, but you have to use common sense and have a good dose of reality.

I also feel that the internet has produced a large population of people that have preconceived views on what D/s is, don't bother to learn, won't take advice and spout off like they're an expert when they have no real life experience.

I think that finding someone online and meeting them is not the same as Cyber D/s. Personally, I don't get cyber D/s at all.

Edited to add: I'm reasonably sure that the "subs don't get capatilised" thing started on the internet as well. It's one of my pet peeves. I don't believe that Dominance and submission is defined by the shift key on my keyboard.



NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 8:50:32 AM)

I most definitely feel that it has been a helpful tool. It seems that you would agree, but you're losing sight of the fact that those people are merely annoying. Only if you choose to get involved with them are they any real hindrance. They way I look at it, let people have their fun. Reality will probably smack them someday. This site is wonderful. I've met many friends and learned many things. Look at it this way, sixty years ago (except in select circles) if you'd said you like to beat people, or be beaten there is a definite potential that you'd be put in jail. You'd at least be ostracized from polite society (not much of a loss usually). I think it's wonderful that we can all share our thoughts and ideas in a fairly open forum, usually without ridicule. Sure, I don't necessarily like what people do with the opportunity to use this site, but it definitely doesn't limit my use of it.



RiotGirl -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 8:58:19 AM)

We'el me lassies (and laddies) i think its a great informational source. Great place to "discover" it as i discovered at 17. But it so completely doesnt compare to real life. i mean READING about being whipped is such a COMPLETELY different feeling then actually BEING whipped. Imagine my suprise! <grins> i read and read and read and read some more about BDSM for 6 months until i was old enough to hit the clubs. Nothing ever went anywhere.. but i had all this knowledge "about" it. For 7 years i had next to nil offline experience (various dead ends) and all this information on the net. (not into chats really) Meeting a REAL Dom (real as in knows what he is doing and is ACTUALLY a DOM that practices BDSM) sooooooooo completely blew my stack. HECK, it was NOTHING like what i had learned about online!

IM BOX (with some sorta Domly Man) (had a few convo's was on good terms)

"Please kneel while you talk to me"

So you kneel, in front of your computer.. and you talk. No biggie.

IN FRONT of your Dom

"kneel"

OH MY GOD the emotions and stuff that run rampant through you as you KNEEL for the first time infront of this man with a piercing gaze. It suddenly means something.

Saying Sir through an IM box.. no sweat

Saying Sir the first time to a man, face to face.. getting that word out..

i think online reading, and talking to Doms does not prepare you for real life BDSM. Twas quite a shock to my little system!

SIDENOTE : Anyone ever think that the AOL BDSM version is in anology just "feathers and roses" Compared to BDSM r/l or this side of the net? Every time i go into AOL BDSM (which i dont anymore) i always feel like "this side of the net" is the outskirts, the rough and raw version of BDSM. Och AYE, we're living in dangerous society out here away from the "safe community" They drive me nuts actually!



MsPurrmeow -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 9:37:22 AM)

I'll agree with the OP on most counts. It is a hindrance in that it provides people with more fantasies and convinces them of the truth, but it is also helpful in that it allows us to connect with others.

I'm from Idaho, too, and although groups are everywhere, most local groups still tend not to sit down and have intellectual discussions, workshops, or educational opportunities. Too many people are still afraid to meet a group of similar-minded folks for some reason. Most people hunt down the lifestyle online before they try to do it in the real world. It's a convenience. For that, it's good.

It's also good that some people CAN and DO get their needs met online and in cyber. Those people are the ones that need to have an outlet without coming to me claiming that they want real life, and then run screaming when they see the hardware in my ceiling. The Cyber-kink world of fluffy serves and velcro collars saves me a lot of hassle. Cyber people who do not get their needs met in that realm and are courageous enough to explore the real side of it, then have a means to meet others. Still, the internet works for our benefit.

The best part about the cyber world is that it brings them within only a few keystrokes of meeting real people in the real world. It puts that possibility rght out there. If you can type in BDSM chat and Google for terminology on a kajira dance, you can also Google for local groups or participate in a Forum like this. It is available to them, and without the internet, many of us would have never met each other.

That being said, personally, I don't get cyber. Typewritten word does very little for my soul. I can make me think, but doesn't fill those needs for which real-life skin contact is required.

Purr







EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 9:37:30 AM)

It can be either depending on how you use it.

It depends on each person, what they want, how they use it, where they go afterwards.

Ultimately, I think it helps.

Course there's always the irony of someone posting on an ONLINE forum that they think ONLINE is a bad thing and ultimately doesn't do good.



sub4hire -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 9:40:26 AM)

quote:

Do you personally feel that the internet has been a helpful tool or has it become more of a hinderance? Why do you feel that way?


I feel it is a helpful tool for meeting people. Many do not attend munches regularly. So if trying to meet a partner, chances are slim at times to ever find one unless you search the net.
There is also a great wealth of info to be found here for those willing to learn. As far as play techniques and such, no the internet is not your place to look.

People like me. Knowing you must be 100% truthful I've always held lifestyler's in a bit of a higher plateau than regular people.

As this message board has proven most people here just play. Few are honest about anything they say. So, I'd be hesitant to recommend a newbie to something like this. More like a seasoned veteran.

So, it has its advantages and its drawbacks. It is up to you if it holds anything for you



aurora31 -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 9:44:33 AM)

I love the net for information...I read everything I can get my hands on. That said I do not take everything I read to be law rather I digest it, use what I can, see what does and does not work for me then I throw the rest away.

Also the net has been great for making friends with in the lifestyle...have even met a few people close to me as there is no organized community in my town.Yeah you put up with your share of wanna bes in chat who have no clue what the lifestyle is truely about...but I have also watched those same people grow and learn in there understanding of the lifestyle if some one just takes the time to educate them.

Always remmber just becuase something works for one person does not mean it will work for you.

Then there are the message boards where else could of I gotten the advise I have in a timely manner when I needed it most...I have been able to get so many questions answered this way...what a great help it has been.

aurora



LadyAngelika -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 9:46:20 AM)

quote:

Do you personally feel that the internet has been a helpful tool or has it become more of a hinderance?


Thorns, I read your post and I share your views very closely. It is very much aligned with some of the thoughts I have been posting lately. Though I think it is very important to be reflexive and write/exchange with others on the topics of sexuality and relationships, it's also very, very if not more important to live out sexuality and relationships.

- LA



MrThorns -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 10:10:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Course there's always the irony of someone posting on an ONLINE forum that they think ONLINE is a bad thing and ultimately doesn't do good.


Well...yeah. I see the irony in my posting this, although I'm not saying that online is a bad thing or that it does no good.

I agree with a lot of people who have mentioned that online is an excellent way to meet people or to find information. Although, a huge drawback to this practice is that the internet provides an excellent place for lairs, cheats, and sociopaths of all shapes and sizes to hide their true natures.

I also agree that online may serve to fulfill the need for some people to fantasize about what a BDSM experience may be like. Maybe they have no desire to really feel what a flogger feels like, as it could ruin what their imagination has conjured up.

Some people have no buisiness being on either side of the whip...so maybe online is a better place for them as well.

I just seem to come across more misinformation, name-gamers, ego-junkies, and drama queens online, than I ever have offline. Many of the abusive people I have met offline, learned a lot of their BDSM online.

Maybe this is the reason that I'm cynical when talking/dealing with people online.

~Thorns



Mercnbeth -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 10:48:29 AM)

quote:

Do you personally feel that the internet has been a helpful tool or has it become more of a hinderance? Why do you feel that way?


Helpful tool? It's provided a resource for obtaining my life's goal, my slave, my beth. Having met on-line, I will never discount the value of the internet. That said, it's also the perfect medium for cheaters, fakes, posers, and frauds. It's so easy to establish and maintain a persona in cyber-land. The masses of people new to the lifestyle and discovering the BDSM sites like CM on the internet provide ample opportunity to fool a lot of the people all of the time. On-line at least.

If you use the internet in general or this site in particular as gospel, or take everyone and everything seriously you'd be confused as best, and at worse a fool. Unfortunately there is no disclaimer or warning, and you don't need to pass any intelligence test to have access.

Anyone representing the relevance of their on-line BDSM games as life experience is nothing short of dangerous to themselves and the people they contact. More emotional damage has been caused by people taking seriously their on-line "relationships"; especially the one sided ones.

This is a RESOURCE. It someone comes here for a life and death decision they are as foolish as the person who would make themselves so self-righteous as to give it. If the internet or this site is the best you can do for a friend you have more problems than can be solved here.

The greatest thing that the internet has done for the lifestyle is to let more people know about it. People like beth would think themselves a "freak" and "pervert" if the internet did not let her know that her feelings and desires were not unique. she didn't come to the internet looking for solutions to her life problems, she used it for what it is - a place to get information. she got the information she needed to meet people.

Now the probability of meeting frauds in person is just as great as meeting them on-line; but you meet and move on. It's a lot harder to maintain a "persona" in person, and actions are much more reliable to determine what a person really is versus trying to interpret posts or chats. Context and inflection are rarely taken the wrong way when you are face to face.



arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 3:18:59 PM)

Well I'm new to this whole thing. Have managed to sidestep the cheaters, liars, fakes and frauds as I do in real life. What I have found on line is continued validation of who I am, sense that I am not alone, sense that I can make it up as I go along, that it is OK to me uniquely me, etc. It has helped widen my mind to the possibilities. And provided a great guy to explore with. It is what you make of it. And if you keep your wits about you and it can be quite useful. If you don't, what can I say?



anthrosub -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 3:39:44 PM)

It took me a long time to realize the Internet is essentially good only for information purposes (of course there are exceptions to this). Unfortunately, by the time I realized this, I had invested about 3 years of my life NOT spending time looking for real time sources where I could actually meet people. In the time I have spent exploring real time sources, I've learned I live in the BDSM desert. I live in Washington, DC but it might as well be the North Pole.

anthrosub



1RottenJohnny -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 3:43:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cykotica
I feel at times that the internet promotes a fantasy that can't exist in the real world.


AMEN! But I truly feel sorry for those who don't realize they're lost in fantasy.



sultryvoice -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 3:46:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


Yes.

The internet is a great tool. It allowed many of us to realise that we were not alone. It can be a great place for research, but you have to use common sense and have a good dose of reality.

I also feel that the internet has produced a large population of people that have preconceived views on what D/s is, don't bother to learn, won't take advice and spout off like they're an expert when they have no real life experience.

I think that finding someone online and meeting them is not the same as Cyber D/s. Personally, I don't get cyber D/s at all.

Edited to add: I'm reasonably sure that the "subs don't get capatilised" thing started on the internet as well. It's one of my pet peeves. I don't believe that Dominance and submission is defined by the shift key on my keyboard.



I have to agree with OsideGirl here...I found out about bdsm real time and turned to the internet and books to find out more...I spoke with others online and then ventured out about 4 months later and have been real time since..

How can someone obey a person behind a keyboard only? That is pretty shallow. You have no clue who each other are. You have to get to know one another as people first, then comes the other..If you don't get out of your cocoon, you are missing way too much. BDSM, D/s, M/s is not behind the keyboard, it's living, breathing, learning from one another and handing down your knowledge to mentor others..We learn more from each other than from what words you read hold..

As for the Caps/caps thing online..I see no point in it..It is so confusing in typing..Just because I use Sultry instead of sultry, doesn't mean I am a Domme instead of a submissive or switch for that matter..It is a pet peeve of mine too..I won't do it..I just use whatever..usually small because it's easier..

Respectfully,
sultry



subcheryl -> RE: Online BDSM..help or hinderance? (8/24/2005 3:53:36 PM)

I think it is both ways, both helpful and harmful. First I met master here at collarme and I couldn't be happier for that, I first learned of my submission or at least what the empty hole in me was called through Castlerealm, I read a writing by a submissive that described exactly what I was feeling at that time in my life and I gleamed info there that gave me some ideas of what life was within this realm, and from there I came to collarme and tried the chat rooms and must say they weren't for me, just wasn't filling my needs at that time and since then I don't find them useful at all, I enjoy the forums, I learn, I think and I share. I though have been blessed with an inquiring mind and if something comes up I don't understand I ask and search and figure out for myself what "fits" me. Even here there are those I can agree with and some I just pass over as I don't understand their point of veiw or don't agree with the way they look at things.
For the inexperienced submissive/slave who are young or a bit more "simple" that can be easily led wrong, or for some reason are unable to decern things out, it can be harmful they can be easily led into harms way, or at the least have their perspectives of the reality of the life severly put off kilter, to the pt. that the Dom/Domme will really have to do some work with them to balance it out again, Sorry if I seemed to wonder around here, I guess I am just thankful for me the net is here and that I learn and Master and I can share



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