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RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 3:51:04 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Timmy is in the well...

Which is oddly a rather apt metaphor. How did Lassie convey these messages? Signs. Signs for humans include words and they mean nothing--not a single thing--if we don't agree on their meaning. That's why it's not really nit-picking...it's important.

Communication is important, but until we all own the same book, we're going to have to go with 'best we can do' most of the time. Rover's book says one thing. My book says another. Someone else may have a book which says something different from both of us. Which book shall we use? I want to use mine. Rover wants to use his and someone else is going to want to use theirs, but I have the distinct impression that when someone says 'contract' on a BDSM board, most of the participants are going to have a good enough idea of what that means to be able to discuss the idea of contracts without having to discuss the actual word too much ... in theory. ::grins::

Celeste

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RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 5:30:15 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

... but I have the distinct impression that when someone says 'contract' on a BDSM board, most of the participants are going to have a good enough idea of what that means to be able to discuss the idea of contracts without having to discuss the actual word too much ... in theory. ::grins::

Celeste!!! Where is the fun in that, I ask you?!?!

John

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RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 5:34:18 PM

CalifChick

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Wait a sec... you mean you've been talking about CONtracts (agreements)... and not conTRACTS (the act of pulling back, making smaller)? The noun and not the verb???

I think I just felt something conTRACT.

Cali

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RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 5:40:21 PM

AquaticSub

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Well that puts everything in a completely different light.

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Post #: 204

RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 6:33:23 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Meaning that she has determined the relationship and your authority is not as important as disregarding a section of your agreement.

Not quite. In our contract there are provisions for disregarding other parts of the contract. If she misbehaves, she gets punished. Good behavior is spelled out in the contract, as is the punishment for misbehaving.

quote:

Now... what are you gonna do?

Punish her according to the terms of the contract.

quote:

Being bound by my word until I choose to no longer be bound by it?

Again, not quite. Being bound by my word until I choose that my word means nothing. There is a difference between honor and consent.

quote:

That is the nature of consent, and not being bound at all. That is the value and purpose of a contract... to bind people to them beyond the whimsical nature of their consent. To bind them even when they no longer wish to be bound.

And that is exactly the role honor plays in the contract. Honor is the binding element, and it extends beyond consent or whim. Honor is what makes it a contract.

quote:

Because no one is bound to them by anything beyond their consent. There is no consequence to them. They have no authority without said consequence.

Breaking one's own word carries a consequence.

Taggard

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RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 6:50:06 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Celeste!!! Where is the fun in that, I ask you?!?!

John

Take care, Rover or I'll start a sub vs slave thread!

Celeste

"Don't fuck with a menopausal sadist"

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Post #: 206

RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 7:31:48 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

And that is exactly the role honor plays in the contract. Honor is the binding element, and it extends beyond consent or whim. Honor is what makes it a contract.

Ah, yes... honor, communication and whatever the latest novels have annointed as "cornerstones" of the lifestyle. :)

John

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RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 7:33:05 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Celeste!!! Where is the fun in that, I ask you?!?!

John

Take care, Rover or I'll start a sub vs slave thread!

Celeste

"Don't fuck with a menopausal sadist"

Hey, there's no reason to go and get freaky now...

John

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Post #: 208

RE: Contracts - 1/11/2008 8:29:15 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Ah, yes... honor, communication and whatever the latest novels have annointed as "cornerstones" of the lifestyle. :)

I don't think honor began with the lifestyle.

Taggard

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Post #: 209

RE: Contracts - 1/13/2008 1:08:37 AM

subinchico

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My Contract/Document Both on paper and I'm video taped while reading and signing it! It's purpose is to protect my GODDESS from legal ramifications if I accidently perish during play. Without it, my huge doting family would relentlessly (w/the DA) persue,,,, bla bla bla,,,
with it they'll be more melow!

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RE: Contracts - 1/13/2008 1:19:09 AM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Those contracts are binding in that there are consequences for violating them (as opposed to simply being able to walk away). The law is but one method by which one may be "bound" to a contract.

John

Okay, here's where I expose my ignorance. . .for those who are in D/s relationships the contracts, aren't there consequences for violating them? Or is that not part of the contract? There are consequences other than walking away without the contract, why wouldn't they be available with the contract?

speaking more generally. . .

One contract that I do see a need for is for when a simulated rape-scene is being discussed. I would think that such a scene could be very risky for the Dom without one. As TDW said up-thread, showing this to the DA could make a big difference if someone were to see/hear what was going on & call the cops.

I don't know carlie, my concern would be that if you mention bdsm activities in your contract you may actually be helping the DA not vice versa.

I think contracts are a symbol. Obviously they are not a legal "contract" but an agreement between parties that isn't enforcable legally. I can't say I have ever used one per se, but writing down rules in a place where both parties can see them and refer to them I have done but really more as a fun relationship building type thing than any type of binding authority document (if that makes sense). For some people they have meaning, and if it works for you, do it.

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RE: Contracts - 1/13/2008 1:35:15 AM

takenbyjohnr07

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There was a case recently where a an was put in jail for what his wife deemed as abuse. He was going to be locked away for a very long time, until he prduced a contract that they both signed stating what they were into. He was freed. So i guess in that respect a contract was great for him.

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RE: Contracts - 1/13/2008 7:04:21 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subinchico

My Contract/Document Both on paper and I'm video taped while reading and signing it! It's purpose is to protect my GODDESS from legal ramifications if I accidently perish during play. Without it, my huge doting family would relentlessly (w/the DA) persue,,,, bla bla bla,,,
with it they'll be more melow!

Depending upon what is contained in the contract (and related video), you may simply be providing evidence for prosecution in the event of your death. And even if this could somehow prove helpful in the prevention of a first degree murder charge, it would not offer any protection from lesser charges such as negligent homicide (depending upon how you died).

Do ask that your estate keep us informed as to the outcome of your case.

John

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RE: Contracts - 1/13/2008 7:30:06 AM

LadyHugs

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Dear BitaTruble, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I agree with your post [Reference Post #201]

In using the word and meanings to 'contract' as far as a tangible contract, agreement, treaty, pact, indenture and the like-- the purpose, the language and the binding nature to that 'contract' be it in tangible form, such as on a parchment, a handshake to cement the agreement and or contract and or an oral agreement and or commitment--so be it.

Everybody has their own view of what it should look like, what it should be like and or the contents of the contract.

If there was just one form of contract, we wouldn't see a law library full of legal precedence as far as contracts go-- be it civil, governmental and or business.

In BDSM, M/s and or D/s -- as long as the individuals involved are happy with the contents, expectations and meaning behind their contracts--so be it. It isn't the outside peanut gallery's business and outside the relationship, there is no authority to ammend it to some other person's satisfaction. The authority remains within the relationship and that is where its proper to remain.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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Post #: 214