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Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, please?... - 7/9/2004 4:38:49 AM

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While recently attending some private parties we have encountered that each " Master" is somehow self proclaimed the best in his or her field. IE....Master X is the Master Flogger, Master Y is the person who brought the violet wand, Master K is the best at spanking, and Mistress Z brings the TENS unit. Of course all of the above have also brought their own submissive. It then becomes a " group" event. The submissive experiencing the " talent" of each. This isn't a sex event. It is a play event. Usually the submissive is blindfolded so she/he doesn't know who is next. OK.... to some this may all be well and good but for me it doesn't work. If Master K spanked me I would not enjoy it nor think he was " best" in his field. Not to mention if Master X used a flogger how do I really know he knows what he is doing? "Wrap around" is something I don't enjoy and it can happen really easily. I really do not feel good about " trusting" anyone who claims to be good in their own "field."
Apparently, I am in the minority of the people I have met recently. I have sat at munches and listened to tales of how a submissive was flogged, spanked, tickled, pinched, tweeked and squeezed by several others while her Dom.... watched and of course offered some of his experience. These stories all sound like the equivalent of recalling a Major League Baseball game, with the final inning being the submissive hitting " sub space".....HOMERUN!
This doesn't work for me. For me, there is a the psychological feeling of " submitting", hence, I submit to only ONE. We have built TRUST. I also raise a safety issue. As I would not feel safe. Consentual.... I would not consent to my not knowing who was doing what to me.
A topic I have run into time and time again, I do feel that my thoughts are not commonly shared many.
Thoughts? Ideas? Other's opinions?

peace
infyniti

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 5:57:09 AM

confusetheswede

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i rather have someone that i am familar with, because rape turns me off and that is how i would feel, as though i was raped if i happened to encounter that kind of situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subinfyniti

While recently attending some private parties we have encountered that each " Master" is somehow self proclaimed the best in his or her field. IE....Master X is the Master Flogger, Master Y is the person who brought the violet wand, Master K is the best at spanking, and Mistress Z brings the TENS unit. Of course all of the above have also brought their own submissive. It then becomes a " group" event. The submissive experiencing the " talent" of each. This isn't a sex event. It is a play event. Usually the submissive is blindfolded so she/he doesn't know who is next. OK.... to some this may all be well and good but for me it doesn't work. If Master K spanked me I would not enjoy it nor think he was " best" in his field. Not to mention if Master X used a flogger how do I really know he knows what he is doing? "Wrap around" is something I don't enjoy and it can happen really easily. I really do not feel good about " trusting" anyone who claims to be good in their own "field."
Apparently, I am in the minority of the people I have met recently. I have sat at munches and listened to tales of how a submissive was flogged, spanked, tickled, pinched, tweeked and squeezed by several others while her Dom.... watched and of course offered some of his experience. These stories all sound like the equivalent of recalling a Major League Baseball game, with the final inning being the submissive hitting " sub space".....HOMERUN!
This doesn't work for me. For me, there is a the psychological feeling of " submitting", hence, I submit to only ONE. We have built TRUST. I also raise a safety issue. As I would not feel safe. Consentual.... I would not consent to my not knowing who was doing what to me.
A topic I have run into time and time again, I do feel that my thoughts are not commonly shared many.
Thoughts? Ideas? Other's opinions?

peace
infyniti

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 7:49:51 AM

Laura

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Your feelings should be respected. Also, you're right about not blindly trusting someone with a flogger. If your Dom is not making sure you are (and feel) safe you will have to stand up for yourself. Talk about it with him/ her.

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 8:35:33 AM

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It's like the play analog of a gang-bang. Ick!

I think it's wrong if you're not into sharing.

January

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 11:22:55 AM

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Sub, you are'nt along in your feelings. I feel the same way. I run a BDSM group. We have quarterly parties and I've yet to be able to play at one. Some people just make me nervous or I don't want them ogling me. Which in turn makes my Dom nervous. So the only parties we have been able to play at are private ones we hold about once a month.

At our parties(public ones) I usually have one person who is pretty good at whatever they do to do a demo. There is no one sub and all share her. That would'nt cut it. I do however keep track of who is coming and what preference they are. Whether Dominant or submissive/switch. Those single people I do sort of match up. They talk limits briefly and a DM watches the scene.

I have to say we have played with others from time to time. Privately. Trust is something you build with your partner and if you have total trust in them. You also have to trust that they would not allow anyone else to hurt you either. They will stand over them.
If your partner asked you to play with someone else blow the trust you have built up between the two of you?

(in reply to subinfyniti)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 2:06:28 PM

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I would think you would have to trust your own dom to know who is safe to play with since he knows your limits, and trust that he will be watching over you. If you don't want to play with anyone other than your own dom then that should be a respected limit of yours. I wouldn't trust or respect a dom that just turns you lose to be passed around at a play party.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 7:18:29 PM

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Well, I am not a submissive, so the question was not addressed to me, but I did want to put my two cents in.

1) I dislike casual play with people I dont know. There is a synergy in dancing where the partners connect that creates for me a transcendant feeling. I find in play that the same thing happens; one aspect of play for me is about chasing that elusive feeling, not the physical techniques. I just dont think I can get there with a stranger.

2) I dont like to share my toys. Im not sure that is a good or bad thing in this lifestyle, but I am stuck with it.

3) I wont force somebody to do something I wouldnt do myself or that causes upset in the person. If she felt weird about being shared, I would feel weird about sharing her, and not in a good way.

Just me, could be wrong, but there ya go...

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 8:25:15 PM

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It's not for everyone, certainly, but I've had some great scenes where the primary top kept pulling people in to "help" in one way or another. One time in particular I ended up with 6 women beating me. I didn't know most of them. I trusted her, so I wasn't concerned about their competence, and we all had a great time.

My brand of play isn't about submitting though. It's about the adrenalin rush of a great ride that I take with my friends (or potential friends in some cases). It doesn't have to be any deeper or any more complicated than that, for me.

So, if multiple tops doesn't work for you then dont' do it. But I don't see any need to criticize others for enjoying it. *shrug*

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/9/2004 9:42:49 PM

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Once, at Christmas time, I took a woman to a club, wrapped her upper body down to just above her knees in green saran wrap (her arms were thus secured to her side), and then stapled all the little care packages we had made to the wrap.

Then I sent her out into the crowded club and told her "don't bring anything back." She didn't know that I had one of my friends follow her around through the club to make sure she was ok. As far as she knew I'd sent her into a packed out club with her arms secured to her sides with instructions to allow people to take the goody bags off of her (which essentially meant being groped by everyone in the club). She loved it (and came back without a single goody bag).

For a person, especially a woman, who dreams of the 'freedom' to be a slut this sort of thing can be the quintessential experience. Many women need permission to behave 'loosely' or they can't let go.

For others it's about being the center of attention and for still others it's about objectification.

<shrug> To each his/ her own. I have to agree with Sherri, though. It's ok to say 'this is not for me' but I have a problem with someone saying it's not right at all, or perhaps condescending because they find it personally distasteful.

Personally, I find vanilla relationships that are thinly disguised as BDSM distasteful; particularly when those people are the 'one true wayers.' It doesn't work for me, but I wouldn't dream of telling someone else it's a disgrace to the beauty of BDSM. It's simply 'not for me.'

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to subinfyniti)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/10/2004 4:12:45 PM

cityslaveforuse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

I would think you would have to trust your own dom to know who is safe to play with since he knows your limits, and trust that he will be watching over you. If you don't want to play with anyone other than your own dom then that should be a respected limit of yours. I wouldn't trust or respect a dom that just turns you lose to be passed around at a play party.

I have been in situations like this and for me that here was the point. As long as I knew I could trust my Dom to be there and watch out for me I could submit to the other "experts". It worked well for me because it heightens the awareness of that trust factor.

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/10/2004 5:19:15 PM

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I remember being at a play party a few years back, when a sub came up to us and *offered* to have us peel a piece of the latex *shirt* she was wearing. She had a nice pretty speech about how her dominant would be most pleased if we would *help* her show the beauty beneath.... or something to that effect. And everytime a stranger, ran a finger under an edge and pulled off another strip, she shivered....

I personally am an exhibitionist. And reality is that I have more *practical* experience on either end of the whip, flogger, cane, or most toys than Master does. We don't go to many parties, but one we did go to had a slave auction to raise money. The person who bought you had to negotiate the terms with your dominant if you had one. The man who *bought* my service for the night chose to totally share the scene with Master and teach him the use of some of the toys that we owned (but I brought into the relationship). Because I became a *practice* place, other dominants that I had known and were passing by asked if they could *demo* something for Master. The only one he said no to was the one person who we had agreed from a previous party was unsafe. But, even with that, both Master and the dominant who was mentoring him that evening never left my side and watched out for my safety the whole evening.

This was about 3 years ago, and Master has gotten much better with the things that he uses. But, should he ever feel he wants me be the *object* for a lesson, I would always trust that he is going to make sure I am safe and comforatble with the situation.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/12/2004 4:42:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

If your partner asked you to play with someone else blow the trust you have built up between the two of you?

Wow. Not sure. Honest answer.
We have talked of having " another join us" but not so much of myself playing with another. I have this bi-curious side that I have stuffed in the closet. ( Way far back in the closet, behind my "shoes" even!! ) Though I believe Master's and my ideas have differed slightly. At times I feel it would be great to be a submissive play toy to both Master and the Mistress He chose. In turn being played with by both. Again feeling very safe as he would be right there and in my head, in utmost control.
The more the mind opens up, the kinkier it gets.

peace,
infyniti

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/12/2004 9:57:34 AM

Laura

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I don't think anyone was commenting about someone who likes being passed around. The question was about the sub requesting not to be passed around.

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/12/2004 6:23:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laura

I don't think anyone was commenting about someone who likes being passed around. The question was about the sub requesting not to be passed around.

Laura,

My take on the original post was apparently not the same as yours. Also, I responded both to the original post and the pattern I saw in the responses.

My take on the original post was someone talking about something that wasn't for them. The only questions posed were "Thoughts? Ideas? Other's opinions?"

I responded with my thoughts, ideas and opinions on the topic - as requested.

Also, upon rereading the original post, I could find no evidence of someone requesting not to be passed around, although it became evident in subsequent posts that many of the responders seemed to feel that way about that situation.

Often I'm wont to post a different perspective, simply to attempt to facilitate a bigger picture. IMO the bigger picture tends to foster tolerance for all kinks, and that's a personal point of interest.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/13/2004 4:46:39 AM

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Hi all,
Just to clarify. I am that sort of " one person, would love to come to your private party but only with Master and no, don't want to participate in your BDSM orgy, love to play in public but only with Master, so apparently if you are a voyuer I just may be the person you want to invite to your party kinda submissive!"

Whew!!! That was too long to type with out a breath.
Seriously, I take being a submissive VERY seriously. I searched for a long time to find the Dom who knew just how to push all my correct buttons, who made me live to serve him and only him. Who has never left me wondering if Master X would make me float higher with his flogger or if Domme Z would make me find sub space deeper with her demands.
Who not only controls my body but who is the center of all my fantasies.
I have been a private parties whereas I can feel the pressure that either as one of the submissives there, I am to serve the other Master's there or whereas others were all playing with each other and I feel a level of "uncomfortable" such that I should also be part of the scene going on.
Still thinking that it's just me. Like to think I am the romantic submissive who looks at Master like the day begins and ends with only him.

peace
infyniti

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/13/2004 5:25:08 AM

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Ya know what? As far as I'm concerned, if it works for you and your master then it WORKS, and that's good enough for me.

Sorry to hear that sometimes you feel pressured to play. As a dominant woman I get that a lot (attempts to pressure me to play). I have become, for the most part, impervious. Their attempt to pressure me does not necessarily mean I must succumb, and more often than not will be met with my disengaging all together. Then they don't even get the pleasure of my sparkling company. <shrug> Their loss.

It's wonderful that you've found someone you care so deeply about and feel comfortable to give yourself to. It's a rarity and certainly something to be proud of and cared for.

Just realize that for every person that gets 'sent' by that sort of one-on-one there is another who it would put to sleep. That was ever my point in this thread.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/13/2004 9:27:50 AM

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I was an officer in a femdom organization for years (yes, a submissive...no, it never made much sense to me either). Anyway, I used to go to femdom play parties, and one of the things that used to really get on my nerves was the fact that I appeared to be available to pretty much any woman that was there. It was part of the group energy, but for some reason, it never seemed to go well with me. I found myself being tortured by women I would never have actually served in regular life just because I found them to be completely opposite of what I would be seeking in a dominant woman. But because I was always trying to make events like this work out, I was always at these events.

I also often ended up being the submissive on the arm of a known dominant in the organization (when she found herself needing a presentable slave on her arm), so quite often I ended up in situations like this that I really hated.

As someone who usually serves one woman, and maybe her close friends if anyone else, the whole group aspect of this sort of thing brings back really bad memories. It's kind of nice in fantasy, and I've been known to write about it at length, but I always let everyone know that my fictional writings were just fantasy, not reality. In fantasy, you create the scene that you are desiring. In reality, you end up being in a scene you aren't orchestrating, and if you aren't serving the individuals involved as their personal slave, it can be awkward and sometimes just wrong.

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...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

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RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/13/2004 9:45:49 AM

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quote:

remember being at a play party a few years back, when a sub came up to us and *offered* to have us peel a piece of the latex *shirt* she was wearing. She had a nice pretty speech about how her dominant would be most pleased if we would *help* her show the beauty beneath.... or something to that effect. And everytime a stranger, ran a finger under an edge and pulled off another strip, she shivered....

I personally would probably not peel a piece of latex off if I was with my partner, but I have to say there is a lot of class in the way that was done. To come up and "offer" is lovely; those who want to consent and do it, those who dont can politely decline.

I had some people over to my house one night where a Dom played with his submissive's friend as a birthday present from her. While it started out really nice, his collared submissive really did not take watching it well, even though she got a turn being played with after.

They broke up 4 days later for various reason, but one of them was her feelings watching her Dominant play with another woman.

I dont know if there is an opinion that I could be wrong about in this post, but apply the usual caveats please.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to sarbonn)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/14/2004 5:15:07 AM

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My ex and I played with other people on occasion, mostly because they were more experienced with the toys than him (oh, the joys of a caning lesson, having a circle drawn around my butt and having him be told to "colour between the lines" - the bruises were nice though!).

The parties I go to tend to have the same core group, with new people constantly joining. I've known most of these people for as long as I've been in the local scene for, and have often found myself suddenly being played with by multiple people (gotta love birthday spanks). It doesn't bother me, these are people I consider to be friends. They also know me well enough to know who I'm ok playing with, and who I'd rather not. I have no problem saying 'thanks, but no thanks' to someone I don't want to play with.

But then, I don't really enjoy pain, but I love play. I don't get the whole subspacey type event going on, it's a fun time for me. I laugh, I giggle, I call them names. I'm comfortable and confident enough to wander around naked at most parties (in fact, if I'm not naked, I get people asking why!), and to ask for play if I want it.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Submissive etiquette? Or...."pass the sub, ple... - 7/17/2004 3:42:32 PM

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I think I am with the general majority here on the issue of you shouldn't do it if it doesn't feel right to you, and I don't think you should be pressured to do it either. Peer pressure to do things you find uncool is disruptive to your natural energy. I would have to find other friends if I felt that was the case.

Now on the issue of "pass the sub" being one of the subs that has been passed, I had/plan to have a great time of it. I think it requires a certain mentality to handle well though. I am very open minded, and tend to attack life head on. I recently went to a chatroom party 600 miles away and wound up sceneing with a Dom and his wife, both of whom I had only met for the first time the day before, and didn't spend much time talkign to them up untill the scene. He asked me where I was at before hand, I said, Sir I consider myself to be a pansy. He asked if I wanted a safe word, I said, he'd know if he went too far. We had a wonderful scene and have all agreed to do it again the next time we get the chance. He went past my comfort zone, but did not abuse me. I felt completely comfortable because not only was I in a play party situation with a bunch of Doms ready to stop things if I was in trouble (its so nice being loved) but the Dom and his wife came with about 10 different referances from people I trust as well.

I am a polyamorous person, however, and tend to trust people on instant, or I don't like them at all.

In my personal life....I do not fear going too far, as much as I fear not going at all. It's in the extremes that I find most of my spiritual lessons.

thank you for reading this, have a great day,

pixie

_____________________________

**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.

[image]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/2424/pixieunleashed-2.jpg[/image]

(in reply to subinfyniti)

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