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"Masochism" - 1/10/2008 10:41:36 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
NOTE:These are My thoughts on Masochism; it is not a personal ad.

I would appreciate any useful comments that will help me understand Myself better.


Sigmund Freud couldn't understand:

"Freud draws attention to the most incomprehensible feature in masochism, namely the pursuit of physical pain and feelings of distress as ends in themselves. If pain really is sought, as Freud maintains, as an end in itself, masochism is certainly entitled to be regarded as incomprehensible. For it is compatible neither with the pleasure- nor with the reality-principle; and its problem remains therefore so far unsolved. But since the appearance of Beyond the Pleasure-Principle the situation has been altered. For pain is simply the sign within consciousness of a destructive process going on within the organism; and if there is an instinct which originally aims at the death or destruction of the organism it becomes more intelligible how pain can be desired as an end in itself." - N.J.Symons


"Masochism is a sickness that can only be cured at the end of a whip." - Leopold Von Sacer - Masoch


It very simple to understand; I want to use masochism as a (metaphorical) vehicle to a new identity, a idea of (my counterpart's) perfection.


Sadism
is a very efficient way of communication, a test of trust and earned respect; its honesty is apparent, and it removes weakness and unwanted qualities.


Actions speak louder than words, so a contusion on a masochist is a testimony of the
sadist's commitment to their idea.


Think of it this way: The masochist is the challenger and the sadist is the challenge.
They both have ideas of what the other should be and they work on those ideas
together.


I don't want "acceptance".


I want to be destroyed into a new person.

< Message edited by UBERMUNSCHIST -- 1/10/2008 10:43:52 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: "Masochism" - 1/11/2008 7:00:29 AM   
sammiebabygirl


Posts: 465
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

I want to be destroyed into a new person.


Good luck with that. It seems to me that what you want is not a Dominant, but a control freak, who can strip you of your identity and make you into what he or she desires you to be. Who you are now is inconsequential and therefore, anyone will do.
 
It reminds me of the soap opera I watch, "Days of our Lives". Stefano Dimera is notorious for capturing people, brainwashing them and making them his pawn. They no longer remember who they once were and no longer have a past. They are programed to be soldiers and killers to protect against anyone trying to stop Stefano from his plans.
 
jen

< Message edited by sammiebabygirl -- 1/11/2008 7:02:52 AM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
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RE: "Masochism" - 1/11/2008 9:17:51 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
Every relationship is based on some type of yin and yang dynamic... sometimes obvious sometimes discreet.  One speaks, another listens, one gives, the other receives. 

You might want to look a little closer at Carl Rogers.... Unconditional Positive Regard comes to mind... Perhaps you may find some peace there.   The fundamental criteria for any kind of psychotherapy is one question - does it harm or cause distress?  If the answer is no, then it is not a problem.  I am curious as to why you are so focused on the understanding rather than the accepting and embracing (curiosity, not judgment). 

Each of us comes to be the person we are by our own path.... One person likes knives because knives were everywhere as a child... another person hates knives for the exact same reason.  It is alluring to find the history or explanation, but I wonder if that would truly serve you.... But it is an interesting and intriguing path regardless.

You are young and exploring, what a great place to be!  Only you can answer these in depth questions for yourself... May I suggest a journal in which you can place the quotes that resonate, like the ones above and your own responses to them.  Perhaps you will then find the answers, slowly but surely, as you rattle around in your psyche.  But please remember, the journey is the destination.  Be IN the journey rather than anticipating the destination.

peace

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RE: "Masochism" - 1/12/2008 7:09:12 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

I want to be destroyed into a new person.


Good luck with that. It seems to me that what you want is not a Dominant, but a control freak, who can strip you of your identity and make you into what he or she desires you to be. Who you are now is inconsequential and therefore, anyone will do.
 
It reminds me of the soap opera I watch, "Days of our Lives". Stefano Dimera is notorious for capturing people, brainwashing them and making them his pawn. They no longer remember who they once were and no longer have a past. They are programed to be soldiers and killers to protect against anyone trying to stop Stefano from his plans.
 
jen



(in reply to sammiebabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: "Masochism" - 1/12/2008 7:30:50 PM   
KindLadyGrey


Posts: 358
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I want to be destroyed into a new person.


That's beautiful. It reminds me of one of my favorite sonnets:

HOLY SONNET 14

Batter my heart, three-person'd God; for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise, and stand, o'erthrow me and bend
Your force, to break, blow, burn and make me new.
I, like an usurpt town, to another due,
Labour to admit you, but Oh, to no end,
Reason your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be loved fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy:
Divorce me, untie, or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

John Donne


(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
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RE: "Masochism" - 1/12/2008 7:53:34 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST
Sadism is a very efficient way of communication, a test of trust and earned respect; its honesty is apparent, and it removes weakness and unwanted qualities.

Actions speak louder than words, so a contusion on a masochist is a testimony of the
sadist's commitment to their idea.



I think you've overgeneralized regarding the motivation of most sadists, or those who enjoy a certain amount of sadism in their BDSM play.  There are as many different reasons for a woman enjoying sadistic play as there are women. 
 
I recently talked with a friend that had been to a seminar which discussed how love could be transmitted from the dominant to the submissive through a paddle, whip, hand, etc during impact play.  She experienced it herself and felt exactly that kind of connection with the dominant while in that headspace.  I think the concept of approaching play in that manner is incredible and look forward to experiencing it myself.  I can't hardly begin to imagine just how far my limits could be stretched when in that frame of mind.
 
That having been shared, it doesn't hardly fit at all with your premise does it?
 
If one wants to change and remake themselves, I believe it's their own responsibility and not their dominant's.  In a round about way, from your post it's almost implicit that you're looking for a dominant to motivate you to do what you already know you need to.  But I don't want to make inappropriate assumptions.
 
 - pixel


_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
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RE: "Masochism" - 1/13/2008 5:27:08 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
Your post is very poetic!  Here are my garbled thoughts:

All the masochists I know say they love it because "it feels fantastic"

But I know that does not shed much light on why it feels fantastic.

You probably know already that the endorphin high (triggered by pain) is often described as being as good as an opiate high.  Some people (masochists) just love it.  Apparently you can get the same high long distance running, which is why some runners are addicted.

Emotional masochists are a different kettle of fish.  They want to be hurting, not flying high on endorphins.

There are all kinds of complex psychological reasons for wanting physical or emotional pain. 

Pain can be cathartic.  Pain gives you permission to express "bad" emotions such as self-pity, anger, sadness, jealousy, vengefulness.  Being in pain is the one time it is OK to swear abuse (for women) or cry like baby (for men).  You can drop the veneer of civility and be your raw true self for a while.

Pain garners pity and sympathy from other people.  Pain attracts attention to oneself.  Pain deflects jealousy (as humans are jealous of the happy, not the suffering). 

Pain is one way to atone for one's "sins".  It can assuage guilt. 

Endurance of pain can be a test of strength.  Pain tolerance can make people feel very smug and superior.  Think about all the women that gloat they gave birth with "no drugs at all!".  They are proud of themselves.  Suffering pain can boost your self esteem.

Suffering for another can be an expression of love.  Think of all the painful compromises some parents make for their children.  And the masochist may choose to suffer for the sadist to show his devotion.

Pain can also make you feel alive. It is a thrill.  Many people confuse "excitement" with "happiness". What is more exciting than the rush of adrenaline triggered by fear and pain?

Masochists very deliberately seek out painful relationships and events because pain serves them some very useful purpose.

Once you understand the "useful purpose" of pain, you can reconcile Freud's confusion.  He assumed pain could not be pleasurable, but it can.  It can be very pleasurable.  For reasons the masochist usually does not understand himself or want to admit.

And when the sadist inflicts pain, she is delivering the masochist that pleasure, which is a source of pleasure for her too. 

S&M is a win-win situation, when done right



< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 1/13/2008 5:38:35 AM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
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RE: "Masochism" - 1/13/2008 10:58:03 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
A commendable existential post.

Named after Leopold Von Sacher Masoch, a novelist from 19th century (1800's) Austria, the practices of "Masochism" were taken from descriptions of men deriving sexual pleasure from 'abuse and torment' at the hands of dominant women in Von Sacher Masoch's works.  Named after the Marquis de Sade, the practices of "Sadism" were taken from the descriptions of his 18th century (1700's) novels.

Sigmund Freud's theories,  circa the late 1800's, were based more on the activities described in both sets of novels, which were in great debate in Freud's social circles at the time, than they were based on actual case studies.

It is commonly understood by mental health professionals that Freud, in his studies of sociopathic personas, defined S/m as a negative, unhealthy psychological/mental/emotional disorder.

Many mental health professionals today hold the same view.

In essence, Freud was right.  S/m denotes aberrant behavior, with regards to social norms, in a world where social graces extoll other values as virtues. 

Sadism and Masochism are personality disorders. 

The key in finding our own happiness as BDSM practitioners, then, lies in our ability to choose partners whose disorders compliment our own.

Freud never experienced S/m; he only mused upon the subject then wrote definitive opinion on the activities.

Today one would have to separate Sexual Sado Masochism from Non Sexual Sado Masochism (Moral Masochism) in order to fully consider the mental psychological and emotional aspects of the sado masochistic act.  The two are not one and the same.

Further, one would then have to differentiate between
  • harmless S/m 'play acting' that many of today's S/m practitioners act out
  • from the more hard core self scarring S/m addictions that more serious players engage in

And both of those light to moderate S/m activities are still a far, far cry from
  • the self destructive, harmful, pathological damaging S/m activities
  • that either leave the hapless victim permanently damaged
  • or in it's most extreme pathological episodes, leave the victim dead

Masochism is, simply stated, a need to suffer.  Freud believed that Masochistic tendencies resulted from destructive fantasies turned against the self.

Moral masochism can be defined as that which involves the need to suffer without being accompanied by sexual fantasies.

Had Freud ever experienced the ethos of endorphin overload from a non sexual BDSM session, had Freud ever experienced that 'high' we call 'sub space' (which is what motivates those of us who engage in the practice to repeat it), he would have developed a far more in depth psychoanalysis of the phenomenon (used here because I dislike referring to WIITWD as a 'disorder'.)

Sexual masochism is sexual pleasure being derived from abuse and torment at the hands of another. 

Your post seems to me to be a cry of craving for the 'moral' or non sexual masochism that your spirit craves; it also seems to have sexual connotations so that both aspects are an integral part of your personality.

The desire to be destroyed and re created as a new, improved, fulfilled being is the very essence of the masochistic persona, and is an honest outcry from the depths of a soul that most wanna be submissives would fantacize about but rarely ever give voice to. 

It's not much different, really,  from a Catholic (and I was raised Catholic so I make fair analogy here) yearning to die and be born again in Christ, the evangelical storm to surrender one's self, one's life, one's resources, to Christ, to be reborn as a new, improved, fulfilled being.  Yet, the Christian belief of dying and being reborn in submission to Christ is not generally viewed as a mental disorder in and of itself.  Surrender and rebirth is, in fact, a theme that runs the gamut of religious, social, political and economic mores in today's world.

You are the one who decides to what depth you will pursue that longing. You choose whether to pursue it to a healthy acting out of your desires by choosing a partner who will follow the path of S/m while leaving your inherent spirit intact, or not.  You choose, at your own peril, whether to abandon all reserves and jump into the pit of total self destruction in hopes of emerging like a shining phoenix from the ashes.

A perilous task, that, fraught with real and ever present danger.

Go safely, choose wisely.

*You would enjoy some of the newer treatises on the S/m phenomenon, we've come a long way since Freud.  You might want to read the works of Richard Webster, author of Why Freud Was Wrong: Sin, Science and Psychoanalysis, 1995 available at most University Libraries in the Psychiatry/Psychology sections, or order it online.  It's an interesting read.

TexasMaam











_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: "Masochism" - 1/13/2008 11:08:23 AM   
Wheldrake


Posts: 477
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Your post is very poetic!  Here are my garbled thoughts:



Ms. C,

I don't think your thoughts were "garbled" at all - on the contrary, I found your analysis very clear, thorough, and persuasive. (Sadism and intellect - what an unbeatable combination!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Emotional masochists are a different kettle of fish.  They want to be hurting, not flying high on endorphins.



I'd say that I fall into this category, myself. I'm not very interested in endorphins, or very susceptible to them. I want to feel myself suffering, not to escape into some other sensation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Pain can also make you feel alive. It is a thrill.  Many people confuse "excitement" with "happiness". What is more exciting than the rush of adrenaline triggered by fear and pain?



This is the essence of my particular form of masochism - the sheer excitement of being worked over by a skillful sadist. Aside from the pain and fear themselves, there's excitement in not knowing what will happen next, or how far my tormentor will choose to push me. There's a real sense of adventure in facing something that I actually find rather frightening and unpleasant, and coming through more or less safely (to this extent, I see Ubermunschist's point about the sadist representing a challenge).

I also have a kind of aesthetic appreciation of sadism, especially female sadism. I really can't explain it, except to say that I find the very idea of a cruel woman deeply, inherently erotic. It's exciting to be the object of her predatory attention, and to be helpless under her control. When I'm squirming under her paddle, I'll sincerely want the pain to stop, but at deeper level I'll find it exciting to be in a situation where the pain definitely won't stop until she's through with me. I don't exactly take pleasure in pain, or in subtler forms of torment, but I guess I do take a kind of meta-pleasure. If that makes any sense at all.

I'm not sure that I want to be "destroyed into a new person", as Ubermunschist put it, but I do think (however delusionally) that suffering is in some sense good for me, as if I'm a piece of steel being tempered in the flames. I suppose it's a case of "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger" - suffering voluntarily at the hands of a sadist prepares me to cope with the involuntary suffering that we all encounter out there in the world, and puts it in perspective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

S&M is a win-win situation, when done right



I certainly hope so! As the Cat in the Hat said - it's fun to have fun, but you have to know how.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: "Masochism" - 1/13/2008 12:40:30 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

The desire to be destroyed and re created as a new, improved, fulfilled being is the very essence of the masochistic persona, and is an honest outcry from the depths of a soul that most wanna be submissives would fantacize about but rarely ever give voice to. 


Excellent post Texas Ma'am!  I've discussed with several Dommes that it's my desire to improve myself and become a better man.  Some have responded in those discussions about their ability to mentor or act synergistically with me to help me grow as a person and become just that.  It was never put in the context of an S&M dynamic, but more in the context of her guiding me to help improve myself in the areas where I know I have my shortcomings and weaknesses that would benefit our relationship should one eventually develop between us.  It seems to me that certain women have a natural ability to nurture and foster that in men who are open to receiving it.
 
quote:


A perilous task, that, fraught with real and ever present danger.


Agreed!  I'd hope that what basically attracted a Domme to me would be something she'd want to preserve.

quote:


*You would enjoy some of the newer treatises on the S/m phenomenon, we've come a long way since Freud.  You might want to read the works of Richard Webster, author of Why Freud Was Wrong: Sin, Science and Psychoanalysis, 1995 available at most University Libraries in the Psychiatry/Psychology sections, or order it online.  It's an interesting read.

TexasMaam


I've heard of this book and it has always sounded like an interesting read, if anything to be able to sling a few mudballs at Freud.    Too bad I've about 5 books waiting for me to read or finish reading as it is right now.  I'll have to add it to my list of things I'd eventually like to read to help me better understand myself when other things are less pressing.
 
 - pixel



_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: "Masochism" - 1/17/2008 5:26:49 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
Thank You for complimenting my scribbling.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: "Masochism" - 1/17/2008 6:26:53 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake
This is the essence of my particular form of masochism - the sheer excitement of being worked over by a skillful sadist. Aside from the pain and fear themselves, there's excitement in not knowing what will happen next, or how far my tormentor will choose to push me. There's a real sense of adventure in facing something that I actually find rather frightening and unpleasant, and coming through more or less safely (to this extent, I see Ubermunschist's point about the sadist representing a challenge).

I also have a kind of aesthetic appreciation of sadism, especially female sadism. I really can't explain it, except to say that I find the very idea of a cruel woman deeply, inherently erotic. It's exciting to be the object of her predatory attention, and to be helpless under her control. When I'm squirming under her paddle, I'll sincerely want the pain to stop, but at deeper level I'll find it exciting to be in a situation where the pain definitely won't stop until she's through with me. I don't exactly take pleasure in pain, or in subtler forms of torment, but I guess I do take a kind of meta-pleasure. If that makes any sense at all.

I'm not sure that I want to be "destroyed into a new person", as Ubermunschist put it, but I do think (however delusionally) that suffering is in some sense good for me, as if I'm a piece of steel being tempered in the flames. I suppose it's a case of "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger" - suffering voluntarily at the hands of a sadist prepares me to cope with the involuntary suffering that we all encounter out there in the world, and puts it in perspective.


I know exactly what you meant by "meta - pleasure".

Being "destroyed into a new person" is basically how I understood it after my experience.

When you've reached a whole new tolerance for pain, you literally are not the man you once were.

(in reply to Wheldrake)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: "Masochism" - 1/17/2008 7:12:47 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

Further, one would then have to differentiate between
  • harmless S/m 'play acting' that many of today's S/m practitioners act out
  • from the more hard core self scarring S/m addictions that more serious players engage in

And both of those light to moderate S/m activities are still a far, far cry from
  • the self destructive, harmful, pathological damaging S/m activities
  • that either leave the hapless victim permanently damaged
  • or in it's most extreme pathological episodes, leave the victim dead

Masochism is, simply stated, a need to suffer.  Freud believed that Masochistic tendencies resulted from destructive fantasies turned against the self.

Moral masochism can be defined as that which involves the need to suffer without being accompanied by sexual fantasies.

Had Freud ever experienced the ethos of endorphin overload from a non sexual BDSM session, had Freud ever experienced that 'high' we call 'sub space' (which is what motivates those of us who engage in the practice to repeat it), he would have developed a far more in depth psychoanalysis of the phenomenon (used here because I dislike referring to WIITWD as a 'disorder'.)

Sexual masochism is sexual pleasure being derived from abuse and torment at the hands of another. 

Your post seems to me to be a cry of craving for the 'moral' or non sexual masochism that your spirit craves; it also seems to have sexual connotations so that both aspects are an integral part of your personality.

The desire to be destroyed and re created as a new, improved, fulfilled being is the very essence of the masochistic persona, and is an honest outcry from the depths of a soul that most wanna be submissives would fantacize about but rarely ever give voice to. 

It's not much different, really,  from a Catholic (and I was raised Catholic so I make fair analogy here) yearning to die and be born again in Christ, the evangelical storm to surrender one's self, one's life, one's resources, to Christ, to be reborn as a new, improved, fulfilled being.  Yet, the Christian belief of dying and being reborn in submission to Christ is not generally viewed as a mental disorder in and of itself.  Surrender and rebirth is, in fact, a theme that runs the gamut of religious, social, political and economic mores in today's world.

You are the one who decides to what depth you will pursue that longing. You choose whether to pursue it to a healthy acting out of your desires by choosing a partner who will follow the path of S/m while leaving your inherent spirit intact, or not.  You choose, at your own peril, whether to abandon all reserves and jump into the pit of total self destruction in hopes of emerging like a shining phoenix from the ashes.

A perilous task, that, fraught with real and ever present danger.

Go safely, choose wisely.

*You would enjoy some of the newer treatises on the S/m phenomenon, we've come a long way since Freud.  You might want to read the works of Richard Webster, author of Why Freud Was Wrong: Sin, Science and Psychoanalysis, 1995 available at most University Libraries in the Psychiatry/Psychology sections, or order it online.  It's an interesting read.

TexasMaam


You are 100% correct!

I do feel as if I have the need for physical pain, however I do not attach sexual fantasies to most of them.

I've been pacifying these symptoms recently, through my workouts and I think that it is a healthy way to deal with it, since it helps me in more than one way.

I know I lean more towards the "ruffer" side of S&M... I just don't know to what degree I  need it.

I would like to learn more about Myself before I engage a serious relationship with a sadistic counterpart, this messageboard has been helpful.

However, I know that I need to go all the way with this or I will feel like I'm wasting my time.

Go Hard or Go Home.

"You are the one who decides to what depth you will pursue that longing. You choose whether to pursue it to a healthy acting out of your desires by choosing a partner who will follow the path of S/m while leaving your inherent spirit intact, or not.  You choose, at your own peril, whether to abandon all reserves and jump into the pit of total self destruction in hopes of emerging like a shining phoenix from the ashes."


This is beutifully written. Would you mind if I copied it to a private blog?

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: "Masochism" - 1/17/2008 7:30:35 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Every relationship is based on some type of yin and yang dynamic... sometimes obvious sometimes discreet.  One speaks, another listens, one gives, the other receives. 


I want a bottle of Yin filled with Yang

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: "Masochism" - 1/17/2008 8:40:08 PM   
LadyLolly


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline
Destroyed into a new person?

The first question that comes to mind is what is so wrong/undesireable with the existing person?
The second question is into what new person?

Have experience with a number of people that desired to be taken beyond thier limits - broken.  The reasons for it varied. 

For some, it was the only way to release what they had bottled up and held too tighly to themselves.

For some cleansing and purification.  A form of rebirth.

For others purely a gift of themselves without reservation.

Just pounding someone to pudding is only going to create a puddle of pudding without also delving into the mental and emotional elements present.  Some will/can morph with purely mental &  emotional catalysts,  others require varying degrees of physcial aspects added to the mix.  But pure phsyical provides no direction.  Destruction of current form - but reformed and shaped by what to what? 

Perhaps I'm missing something or having a dense moment - but to grasp what it is you are seeking, I need more.  

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: "Masochism" - 1/19/2008 6:58:01 PM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLolly

Destroyed into a new person?

The first question that comes to mind is what is so wrong/undesireable with the existing person?

The second question is into what new person?

Have experience with a number of people that desired to be taken beyond thier limits - broken.  The reasons for it varied. 

For some, it was the only way to release what they had bottled up and held too tighly to themselves.

For some cleansing and purification.  A form of rebirth.

For others purely a gift of themselves without reservation.

Just pounding someone to pudding is only going to create a puddle of pudding without also delving into the mental and emotional elements present.  Some will/can morph with purely mental &  emotional catalysts,  others require varying degrees of physcial aspects added to the mix.  But pure phsyical provides no direction.  Destruction of current form - but reformed and shaped by what to what? 

Perhaps I'm missing something or having a dense moment - but to grasp what it is you are seeking, I need more.  



This is my answer to your first question:

There is nothing "wrong" with the existing person;

unless the need for progression is a psychological defect.

There is nothing undesirable with the existing person; I just want to be better.



To answer your second question:
 
 
quote:

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
 
-  George Orwell


Just pounding someone to pudding is only going to create a puddle of pudding, if that person wishes to be pudding.

quote:

 But pure phsyical provides no direction.


You're right!

I apoligize for not including this in my first post, but I was talking about intellectual, emotional and physical masochism.


quote:

  Destruction of current form - but reformed and shaped by what to what? 



Whatever I want to be.

(in reply to LadyLolly)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: "Masochism" - 1/19/2008 8:29:14 PM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UBERMUNSCHIST

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLolly

quote:

  Destruction of current form - but reformed and shaped by what to what? 



Whatever I want to be.


Whatever *you* want to be? or whatever *she* wants you to be? or whatever *you both* want you to be? I was a bit surprised by this part of the answer as it left out any reference to the sadist, but then I've never been in a purely S/m relationship.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"


(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: "Masochism" - 1/20/2008 6:44:08 AM   
LadyLolly


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline
It's official - I do not get your question.
Surely you are not suggesting you have a desire for some one to break you down, destroy you, and then solo - you choose how to rebuild yourself alone?

Honey, life will do that to you over and over all on it's own. 

(in reply to UBERMUNSCHIST)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: "Masochism" - 1/20/2008 6:49:20 AM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline
Join the Marines.  Few organizations are so totally skilled at breaking you completely, and then building you into something newer, stronger, different, better.

Of course, breaking someone is easy.  Building them up into the best person they can be is the challenge.  It's a fun challenge, but that road is neither easy, nor short.

(in reply to LadyLolly)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: "Masochism" - 1/26/2008 10:52:14 AM   
UBERMUNSCHIST


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLolly

It's official - I do not get your question.



I didn't have a question.

I never implied that I wanted to be broken down.

In a nutshell, I find this shit motivating.

When I said "a new person" it was more of an idiom, kind of like:

"I feel like a million bucks!"

I hope this clears up any misconception.

< Message edited by UBERMUNSCHIST -- 1/26/2008 10:56:05 AM >

(in reply to LadyLolly)
Profile   Post #: 20
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