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saline injections - 8/26/2005 7:58:42 PM   
aurora31


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Hi, I have been talking to a potential Dom for some time now. The other night he brought up saline injections. I had never heard of this before and would like to learn more about them. What exactly are they? What are the risks or health issues associated with them? Any and all info would be much appreciated.

aurora
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RE: saline injections - 8/26/2005 8:11:26 PM   
KarbonCopy


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Saline = practically salt water.

As for the uses for it, I'm not that educated on it.

< Message edited by KarbonCopy -- 8/26/2005 8:16:50 PM >


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RE: saline injections - 8/26/2005 9:06:55 PM   
haematopoiesis


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Questions to ask:

Where would he be injecting you?
What is the purpose?
Is it just saline in the injection?
Does he buy pre-mixed saline or make his own? Does he intend to dilute it? What sort of salt is he using to make it? (Natural sea salt is best. Table salt is not recommended).
Does he have experience with injections?



I am aware that some people inject small amounts of saline into the labial tissue to make it swell and stand out. It is important not to inject too much in such a delicate area, and that the salt concentration be right. You do not want to rupture too many cells.

If he knows what he is doing, takes care with clean needles and the proper mix, etc, then there shouldn't be much of a problem with it. Just drink plenty of water and make sure there isn't a high volume of salt in your saline solution. It's far from life-threatening if there is (well, yanno, so long as he isn't injecting your heart or something ;) ), but there's not much of a point in taxing your body with it.


And a thought on my part about anything to do with injections... make sure that the person on the other side of the needle knows what they are doing, and that you trust them absolutely.

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RE: saline injections - 8/26/2005 9:48:09 PM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aurora31

Hi, I have been talking to a potential Dom for some time now. The other night he brought up saline injections. I had never heard of this before and would like to learn more about them. What exactly are they? What are the risks or health issues associated with them? Any and all info would be much appreciated.

aurora


Saline injections are used to create temporary bulges through injection under the skin. It is also used to inflate the scrotum.

One of the most important things is that USP or Reagent grade saline be used. The stuff sold for contact lenses is dangerous in this application. It should come from fresh, unopened containers so the sterility is not compromised.

The top should practice sterile technique and be aware of the associated risks.

One question I might ask before allowing such a procedure to be done is "where did you learn to do this?" "The internet" isn't a reassuring answer.




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RE: saline injections - 8/26/2005 10:14:38 PM   
haematopoiesis


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but.. but.. the internet teaches All!

Why, we can even get vintage needles on eBay.

And doncha know you don't need to sterilize anything? Just add a little peroxide or alcohol and it'll take care of them thar nasty germ bugs!




(for those unable to appreciate the humor behind the above statements... Do Not Try This At Home, Professional Driver on Closed Course, and other sundry disclaimers)

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RE: saline injections - 8/26/2005 11:18:04 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Saline Injections? That interesting. Have you ever been in a hospital? Have you ever had an IV started on you? It sounds like this Dom just wants to start IV's on you. Normal Saline is a 0.09% salt mix with regular sterile water. It in itself is harmless provided that everthing else is sterile. An interesting choice for simple needle play.

As for the safety involved, make sure the needles come from never been open before packages and are only used once. Make sure the syrenges are clean. Have this Dom wash there hands cleaner than a dog licks your plate.
It would be good of you to check and see this Doms medical cridentials. Is this Dom atleast a LVN or EMT-Intermediate? What is this persons education level in the medical field? After all, it's important that you have a successful IV started rather than have it blown or never stuck in your vein at all. Nasty infections, Sepsis, loss of limbs, and death can occur.

If the IV is started correctly, well it's best that you remove it after this Saline session is over. On a final note, don't let him put more than 250 millileters of fluid in you. After all, your blood presser playes a roll in this and you dont' want to end up with a stroke.

Other than all these health risk, remember that IV's leave makes and such for a little while. So don't allow to many punctures on you as your apperance will cause you to look like a drug user.

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RE: saline injections - 8/26/2005 11:33:59 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

If the IV is started correctly, well it's best that you remove it after this Saline session is over. On a final note, don't let him put more than 250 millileters of fluid in you. After all, your blood presser playes a roll in this and you dont' want to end up with a stroke.
Fangs, yah gotta be kidding! 250mls of saline won't give anyone a stroke, unless you inject a lot of air in first (than it's prepare for homicide charges time).
I get scared of hearing of this type of play, me and my amateur self. I agree with JohnWarren: ask what exactly he wants to do with the Sterile saline/needle, where he learned to do it, and weather he's done it before. M

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 2:35:55 AM   
brightspot


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quote:

I get scared of hearing of this type of play, me and my amateur self. I agree with JohnWarren: ask what exactly he wants to do with the Sterile saline/needle, where he learned to do it, and weather he's done it before. M


I agree with MsM....This Simple talk about needles and injections, makes me very uncomfortable and just hope you take all precautions and know exactly what the heck you are doing!
I find WIITWD can be very exciting in the risk taking factor and pushing limit's, but please be Knowledgable and Sensible!


Edited to add...It kind of???..... makes me think of the Aphixiation(S?) with a belt to increase the pleasure of orgasim game,,,,very exciting but can be lethal.*Brightspot

< Message edited by brightspot -- 8/27/2005 2:44:18 AM >


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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 2:40:40 AM   
OddManOut


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Fangs,
I was told you were medically trained. I am not but I'm interested in adding this type of play. I'm certainly not foolish enough to simply experiment with it so I'm wondering where someone can learn the right techniques without having to go through training as rigorous as EMT training. Or is that not possible? There is something uncomfortable to me about trying to learn this by simply watching or participating in a play session.

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 8:19:24 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Saline Injections? That interesting. Have you ever been in a hospital? Have you ever had an IV started on you? It sounds like this Dom just wants to start IV's on you.

No, I don't think so. When people are performing saline injections for the type of play being described here, it isn't administerd intravenously. It's not about increasing blood volume, it's injected into tissue to cause temporary localized edema like you see here.

~stef

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 8:20:52 AM   
sub4hire


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It is laughable that some actually offered advice here as if they know something. When they know absolutely nothing at all.
Such a serious subject and laughable.

Anyway. I've watched saline be inserted into breasts and testes in the past. Never had it happen to me. As someone suggested I'd use sterile saline....after all your health is nothing to play with. Do a lot of research if it is to be done upon you. When it comes down to it...nobody is going to truly protect you but you.
Basically it is as I believe John said...insterted into the area. It enlarges it for a period of time. Since it is saline your body eventually absorbs it all and you are no worse for the wear. Amount of saline differs though. No clue how much as I've never done it. I didn't take close enough notes either to know when I watched.

The site I normally go to for this extreme of stuff seems to need a membership now. The only way to get the membership is to add a photo of my own. Well, I've never been into extreme anything...so I did a simple search and came up with this guy who appear's to be doing his own little thing. Hope it helps a bit.

http://www.bmezine.com/ritual/selfcbt1.html

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 2:17:54 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

it's injected into tissue to cause temporary localized edema like you see here.
Thanks for the info and pictures gross pictures link Stef. M

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 2:56:20 PM   
stef


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Anytime

~stef

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 10:38:00 PM   
FangsNfeet


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However the saline is given, IV or just in the tissue/under the skin, I just like the idea that everthing is sterile and done in a aseptic technique. I'd prefer that every needle is only used once an thrown away in a safe manner keeping others from getting stuck by the needle.

As for medical trainning, well I don't think that needing to go through a Medical Class is needed. But having the mentor who teaches you these types of techniques who has some medical training that shows good common sense with keeping things clean is important. Reading a book or two from a book store on needles for the use of injection wouldn't hurt either. Though I don't sugest that you practice out of books without supervision, you will atleast have more knowledge and be able to make better judgement calls on who you would allow to poke you.

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RE: saline injections - 8/27/2005 10:53:03 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

Fangs, yah gotta be kidding! 250mls of saline won't give anyone a stroke, unless you inject a lot of air in first


I know Chocolate Love Muffin, I'm just giving the adivice of 250 cc limit to keep things as safe as possible. I once worked with a Heart Surgeon who normally gave 1000 cc over X amount of time to his CABG (bypas surgery) patients. However, he was so paranoid of it accident being given to fast or bolused that he wrote the order "Give 250 cc NS at X amout times 4 each" In the case that the 250 was given as a bolus or faster rate by accident, there was a much less chance for the patient to have complecations from the accident.

However a Dom wishes to proceed with Saline Injection Play, I don't see why a greater of amount of 250 cc would be used. But if it works for the couple, my hat is off to them.



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RE: saline injections - 9/3/2005 5:15:14 AM   
aurora31


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Thank you all for the information. I am still very concerned about any related health risks. Other then making sure everything is steril and that nothing is reused, can there be any long term side affects? Is there any place it should not be injected? If injected into the labia or nipples how long does it take to disapate. I am not having much luck at finding information on this subject. Know seams to have an in depth understanding and I would Like to get my information from more then just the Dom who wants to do this to me.

aurora

P.S. Please ignore my spelling errors my daughter ran off with my dictionary and now I can not find it ....lol

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RE: saline injections - 9/8/2005 3:07:32 AM   
MadameDahlia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfgrrl


quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Saline Injections? That interesting. Have you ever been in a hospital? Have you ever had an IV started on you? It sounds like this Dom just wants to start IV's on you.

No, I don't think so. When people are performing saline injections for the type of play being described here, it isn't administerd intravenously. It's not about increasing blood volume, it's injected into tissue to cause temporary localized edema like you see here.

~stef


Did that look like really icky meat to anyone else? Like... beef trying to become jerky?


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RE: saline injections - 9/8/2005 11:37:42 AM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

Thank you all for the information. I am still very concerned about any related health risks. Other then making sure everything is steril and that nothing is reused, can there be any long term side affects? Is there any place it should not be injected? If injected into the labia or nipples how long does it take to disapate. I am not having much luck at finding information on this subject. Know seams to have an in depth understanding and I would Like to get my information from more then just the Dom who wants to do this to me.


I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about health wise. However, it is possible that this sort of play can cause strecth marks. So starting off slowly would be wise to do. Other than that, give each site that was stuck time to heal before having it stuck again. If you need to build up to trusting your Dom with doing this, watch him do it to another sub or have him do it to you in areas on your body that aren't that sensitive at a slow rate and build up from there.



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RE: saline injections - 9/8/2005 12:03:09 PM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
time to heal before having it stuck again. If you need to build up to trusting your Dom with doing this, watch him do it to another sub or have him do it to you in areas on your body that aren't that sensitive at a slow rate and build up from there.


How about doing it to himself? After all "it's harmless." [evil laugh]

Seriously, doms should be willing to experiment on their own bodies if only so they know the intensity of what they are doing. It also really does help the trust issue.

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RE: saline injections - 9/8/2005 2:10:27 PM   
BostonGuy


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To my knowledge there has been one peer-reviewed publication of complications of saline scrotal infusion in the medical literature (see below; I did not include the literature references from the paper as they are not terribly relevant).

Of note, there are a number of inaccuracies in some of the statements, above.

• With respect to the comments about saline, in addition to infused saline being sterile, any saline that is infused MUST also be free of endotoxin. This simply cannot be done using anything except medical-grade sterile saline, since endotoxin (a component of gram-negative bacteria) is not destroyed by autoclaving. The complications of endotoxin infusion are known to include fever, shock, organ damage, and death. This has been very well worked out both in challenge experiments in animals and in clinical experience with patients.

In addition, there is an incomplete discussion of the potential infectious complications in the article below. What follows is not a complete list of the complications, but is meant to give the reader some sense of the potential downside of this procedure.

• In some men there is an incomplete closure anatomically between the scrotum and the intra-abdominal cavity. Thus, if there is the development of an infection in fluid that is within the scrotum (a serious condition that requires urgent medical attention) there is the possibility that it may track upward into the abdomen and cause peritonitis. This may well be due to more than a single species of bacteria, as the skin is colonized with a polymicrobial flora. Cellulitis, an infection of the skin, is noted in the article below. The possibility of Fournier’s gangrene is noted in the article. This is a devastating condition in which the skin, subcutaneous tissue, and muscles in the area are destroyed by infection due to a variety of bacteria, resulting in necrosis of tissue. It can also occur in women. It may occur as a result of the introduction of bacteria through a breach in the integrity of the skin, which is precisely what would occur with a scrotal infusion. It is more common in people with diabetes and a number of other underlying diseases and requires both urgent surgery and antibiotics. It can be fatal. Other complications worth considering are that a local infection, such as cellulitis, may result in bacteria seeding the bloodstream (causing bacteremia) and, potentially, septic shock. Septic shock has a significant mortality rate.

• There are far more bacteria on the skin of the scrotum than there are on the skin of the forearm or the dorsum of the hand. In addition, the structure of the skin of the scrotum, which inserts into the dartos muscle and is ruggose, may make it difficult to disinfect. As a result, it is logical to assume that efforts to clean and remove bacteria from the scrotal skin are more likely to fail than is the case with simply placing an intravenous catheter in a person's forearm. Insertion of intravenous lines in hospitals are associated with numerous infections annually. Certainly this can be minimized by minimizing the time during which the intravenous catheter is present in the vein, but there remains a risk of infection.

• Even in the setting of appropriate aseptic technique in an operating room in clean surgery (such as surgery involving the hip joint which is normally sterile) there is a known risk of postoperative infection. Operating rooms have no carpeting, have a specificied numer of air exchanges per hour, and have highly trained personnel. To have a saline infusion performed in a room that may have carpeting, where each step generates an aerosol of bacteria and fungi, performed by someone who may or may not be trained in aseptic technique is something for which there is a risk of infection, though the risk has never been quantitated.

Each of us makes a decision regarding the benefits and risks of activities. The activities may be watching a television show on the couch (relatively low risk) or something with far greater risk. I do not engage in scrotal infusion though I am not able to quantitate the risk of complications. This is because the complications are of such severity that, for me, the risks clearly outweigh the benefits. Your assessment may vary.

-------------------
Summers, J.A. A Complication of an Unusual Sexual Practice. Southern Medical Journal 96(7):716-717 (July 2003).

Abstract: A patient presented with scrotal cellulitis as a complication of infusing 900 ml saline into his scrotum. He had obtained a kit along with explicit instructions for performing the infusion through the Internet. This practice may be more widespread than expected. An Internet search revealed many references to this procedure, but a MEDLINE search showed virtually no information in the medical literature. Patients who are considering scrotal inflation, as it is called in the lay literature, should be warned of the potential complications of this procedure.

Case Report A 37-year-old man presented to the office with a painful, swollen scrotum. He reported that he had always had the impression that his genitalia were smaller than desired, and as a result he had searched the Internet for a solution. He found a web site that supplied him with a “scrotal inflation kit” consisting of a 1-L bag of saline, tubing, and needle-catheter combination. The stated purpose of using such a kit is the infusion of saline into the scrotum to cause significant scrotal enlargement. The patient had been told that the infused fluid would be reabsorbed during a 2- to 3-day period. Unfortunately, the patient still had enlargement of the scrotum 4 days after the infusion, and it was quite painful. He stated that he had infused 900 ml fluid before the needle popped out of his scrotum. He was initially pleased with the results, but then he developed erythema and pain during the next 2 days. His request at the office visit was to have the fluid aspirated from his scrotum.

An examination revealed that the patient was afebrile. He had a greatly enlarged, erythematous, tender, warm scrotum. The swelling of the scrotum completely consumed his penis. He was promptly referred to a urologist, who prescribed cephalexin 500 mg qid for 7 days, and ultrasonography of the scrotum was performed. The ultrasonographic scan revealed diffuse scrotal swelling but no distinct fluid collection or mass. At 2-week follow-up, the patient’s erythema had nearly resolved, and his scrotum was reduced to approximately 20% of its size at presentation.

Discussion
A review of the web site where the patient obtained his kit revealed illustrated, step-by-step instructions for the infusion of saline into the scrotum. To investigate how widespread such practices may be, Google searches were performed with the terms scrotal inflation and scrotal infusion, which produced 516 and 1,390 web pages. Most of these pages were associated with web sites dealing with sadomasochism and fetishes, but several revealed that scrotal inflation procedures have been addressed in the alternative press.

A review of the medical literature, however, showed that much less attention has been devoted to the potential complications of this procedure. Although the term scrotal inflation seems to be common in the lay literature, the only references to such a term in the MEDLINE database refer to gaseous inflation of the scrotum. MEDLINE searches with the term scrotal infusion and the combination of cellulitis and scrotum produced similarly limited results, and none of the articles displayed discussed a case such as the one described in this article. The patient’s activity essentially constituted a clysis procedure, however, and a 25% minor local infection rate has been described in a nursing home population with clysis. Given the frequency with which infection occurs in clysis, one would expect that the infection rate in people who self-administer this procedure might be even higher. Although the condition of the patient described here did not progress to Fournier’s gangrene, this possible additional complication must be considered. The physician’s discussion with patients who may have such proclivities should include warnings regarding the potential complications of such activities, including scrotal cellulitis.


Key Points
• Scrotal inflation with saline is a sexual practice not commonly discussed in the medical literature.
• Scrotal inflation can result in complications such as cellulitis.
• Remarkably, the equipment required for scrotal inflation can be obtained over the Internet without a prescription.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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