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RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 4:50:56 PM

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

[

I agree with what most said about this but I also want to add that I love sissy boys. For the most part I think it takes a lot of strenght to take that journey and not only know who you are but enjoy that very special dynamic.

Oh yes, I would never call any one of my Boys weak.. This is a very tough journey for a lot of them, I ask them to give up a lot and yes sometimes it a very hard struggle.

DJ

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 4:55:35 PM

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petpete

Dear DJ.. That is utterly disgusting from any human being little alone from people who practice the lifestyle itself!!! These people are ignorant and have there own personal fears more then anything else to worry about. How dare they say such things in this day and age, and most importantly what in the world are they doing in a site that belongs to people as such and is supposed to be discriminating free if anything but that!!!

That was my first thought as well, I know that being kinky doesn't mean that you are somehow immune or free from the nasty prejudices that abound, but you would think it would add just that little bit of insight, apparantly not, considering some of the comments on here that I have read, full of misinformation, wild speculation and just plain rudeness.

DJ

(in reply to petpete)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 5:01:24 PM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyClaudiaVan
You came in here and made a personal judgment on me yet I came in here to discuss my opinions on those types in <<<general>>>, without getting individually personal with anyone.

You seem to suggest it is wrong to make a personal judgment on one person based on how she behaves but it is alright to make a judgment against a group of people. Why is that?

quote:

try staying on topic like I did.

The topic is why people who are not into the sissy kink make antagonistic remarks against them, which you have done.

How would you feel if a vanilla person came into this forum and slammed you for your kink? If you would not want such comments directed at you, why is it alright for you to do so to others?

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyClaudiaVan)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 5:02:00 PM

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Joined: 11/15/2006
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When are you going to come off your high horse of decorum?

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 5:03:34 PM

ModeratorEleven

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Last warning. Let it go.

XI

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RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 5:08:55 PM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyClaudiaVan
When are you going to come off your high horse of decorum?

I thought you wanted to stay on topic yet you avoid the questions that are on topic.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyClaudiaVan)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 7:11:30 PM

Posts: 123
Joined: 5/16/2005
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Maybe the 3rd times the charm? For god sakes, people...

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!
Just ignore her and she will go away.

She feeds on negative attention. Don't even read her messages, much less respond to them. When she can't stir up any more drama, she'll disappear. This exact situation occurs all the time on forums and message-boards all over the internet. The best way to deal with someone trolling for attention is to not give them any.

_____________________________

You see I'm not the kind of fella'
who can get off on vanilla.
No I need a little color in my sex.
--The Wet Spots

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/21/2008 11:08:09 PM

youngpupforBCms

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

Theirs so many ideas and opinions about such a complicated issue as cross-dressing(or whatever term you would like to use that relates to this field) in general that to try and even label someone as a certain way is just ridiculous to begin with. For some its a hobby, for some its a kink, for some its a part of them that makes them feel as if their are truely right and correct in knowing who they are. Take me for example, look at my profile, now am I any less of a man or person because I might like to try and pass as that pretty blond ahead of you in line at the store? I dont think so,because when I'm done dressing or what have you, Im still the same guy who will throw up 200 lbs on the bench or engage in a game of football or some other activity just as readily as before, heck I might even do it dressed if I really wanted to play, lol who would suspect the blonde girl of being able to run that fast or hit that hard

. Anyways theirs always two sides to every thing, sometimes one might prefer to be more male, other times they might want to be more female. Hating someone because of something they do or because its an aspect of their lifestyle is just foolish, further more look where it has gotten us, wars, genocide, barbarianism for the past hundreds of years. What it comes down to is tolerance, tolerance to let others do something that brings no harm to you or others, tolerance to look the other way if it bothers you. Well just my two cents.

(in reply to Boondoggle)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 8:54:57 AM

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaJayde

With phrases such as 'hate' and 'die' along with suggestions that the world would be a better place if they just removed themselves from it, is this attitude prevalent in real life, or is this just a nasty online phenomena?

If it were not at least feared to be prevalent, then crossdressers should be a lot more prevalent in public. If it were not that such attitudes are present, then trans people of all varieties who have ventured out in public should not figure so frequently in police reports.

Maybe one day people will be judged by the content of their character and not their appearance, but that day is a long way off, if it is to come at all. The problem I believe is that anything which is incongruous to our environment and by extension upsetting to our worldview, will spark the survival instinct to either flight or fight, and the impression is that a male who chooses to don female attire is weak and so there is no need for flight. The same phenomenon occurred when black people started taking the wrong seats in buses in the southern US I believe.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to DominaJayde)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 12:11:04 PM

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

, and the impression is that a male who chooses to don female attire is weak and so there is no need for flight. The same phenomenon occurred when black people started taking the wrong seats in buses in the southern US I believe.

E

There is one differnce though... where a cross dresser can choose to dress... a person of color can't remove their skin.

Ellen,

There is a question I'd like to pose for your opinion .. do the intersexed people feel that it is accurate to be put into the same catagory as a cross dresseer or drag queen? (I personally see that as totally inaccracy to do so). Intersexed people are not a fetish nor a choice.

And lastly.. do sissy's see themselves as crossdressers and do crossdressers see themselves as sissys?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 12:47:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

And lastly.. do sissy's see themselves as crossdressers and do crossdressers see themselves as sissys?

I'm not really sure. I thought I was a crossdresser. But I see so many references to "sissy" so maybe thats what I am. I could spell out all my kinks and fetishes if you like and maybe some one could tell me.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 1:33:23 PM

youngpupforBCms

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/17/2007
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Well from my understanding of things a sissy is generally a submissive male who is forced into womans clothing by a domiant female or something along that lines, while a cross dresser is really just a male who likes to dress up as a woman or attempt to pass as one without needing to be forced or told to do son.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 2:20:24 PM

Posts: 385
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

There is a question I'd like to pose for your opinion .. do the intersexed people feel that it is accurate to be put into the same catagory as a cross dresseer or drag queen? (I personally see that as totally inaccracy to do so). Intersexed people are not a fetish nor a choice.

I think there should be more than just the single category "Trans" on this site. It really isn't broad enough to properly represent eveyone who currently uses it.

And lastly.. do sissy's see themselves as crossdressers and do crossdressers see themselves as sissys?

One might as easily ask, "Do dommes see themselves as subs, and subs as dommes?"

I'd think people, no mater what their kink (for lack of a better term) see themselves as whatever they think they are. CDs see themselves as CDs, sissies as sissies, subs as subs, etc.

I'm sure some people identify as both, some as neither. What others might identify them as is beyond their control, unless they never interact with others for fear of rejection and vilification.

Tasha

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 2:29:54 PM

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngpupforBCms

Well from my understanding of things a sissy is generally a submissive male who is forced into womans clothing by a domiant female or something along that lines, while a cross dresser is really just a male who likes to dress up as a woman or attempt to pass as one without needing to be forced or told to do son.

Jump right in, the terminology soup's just fine, if a little hot.

To begin with, most trans people I know would rip your head off and shit down your neck if you referred to them as sissies, except in the most special and intimate of circumstances. "Sissy" is a pejorative term, like nigger, slut, and queer; and its proper usage is similar to the proper usage of those terms.

Moving on. Within the transgendered community and those knowledgeable about it, there's a huge debate about who is properly considered what. Generally, there are two camps. One camp thinks there is a spectrum of transness, as it's called, that encompasses everyone from the occasional "forced" panty wearer to people who've had full gender reassignment surgery and all that goes with it. The other camp believes that cross dressers are a whole different ball of wax from those who've transitioned in any way. Some people further rank those who've transitioned, rating them more or less "real" transsexuals (or real women) based on whether the individual simply lives as a woman, or also takes hormones, or also has surgery, etc. And on and on it goes. It's much like the endless debates on CM that essentially boil down to who's a twue whatever.

People who are themselves affected by any degree of gender dysphoria, and those who study them, are unable to resolve the question to anyone's satisfaction but their own; and I seriously doubt we can have a reasonable debate, let alone actually answer the question, in this forum.

< Message edited by Reigna -- 1/22/2008 2:50:07 PM >

(in reply to youngpupforBCms)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 2:35:53 PM

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Ellen,

There is a question I'd like to pose for your opinion .. do the intersexed people feel that it is accurate to be put into the same catagory as a cross dresseer or drag queen? (I personally see that as totally inaccracy to do so). Intersexed people are not a fetish nor a choice.

I cant speak for intersexed people - though for me it would be wildly inaccurate to place such people in the same category as crossdressers of any kind.

As for those of us diagnosed and being treated for transsexualism, it would also be wildly inaccurate to put us in the same category as crossdressers of any kind too.

The intersexed are born that way - just like the black person the intersexed person has no choice in being the potential target of abuse. There's debate over we transsexual types as to whether we're born this way (which is gaining prevalence) or whether environmental influences make us this way (which is losing ground and which is far from the experience and testimony of those concerned). Its an important debate with many consequences to each version. And like the intersexed, we too really have little choice in the matter - one reaches a fork in the road at some point where its depression and suicide on the same path, or the hope of life down the other - but with the potential for becoming a target.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 3:17:26 PM

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reigna

Moving on. Within the transgendered community and those knowledgeable about it, there's a huge debate about who is properly considered what. Generally, there are two camps. One camp thinks there is a spectrum of transness, as it's called, that encompasses everyone from the occasional "forced" panty wearer to people who've had full gender reassignment surgery and all that goes with it. The other camp believes that cross dressers are a whole different ball of wax from those who've transitioned in any way. Some people further rank those who've transitioned, rating them more or less "real" transsexuals (or real women) based on whether the individual simply lives as a woman, or also takes hormones, or also has surgery, etc. And on and on it goes. It's much like the endless debates on CM that essentially boil down to who's a twue whatever.

People who are themselves affected by any degree of gender dysphoria, and those who study them, are unable to resolve the question to anyone's satisfaction but their own; and I seriously doubt we can have a reasonable debate, let alone actually answer the question, in this forum.

Youre right to point all this out. But in my view the whole idea of a spectrum is exactly wrong for so many reasons, as is the promotion of any idea of ranking.

Leaving aside the distinct diagnostic criteria, and I accept there can be some crossovers in those respects, it is just so dangerous to make recourse to either a spectrum or a ranking.

The notion of a spectrum is where we get the problem of confusions in the minds of the outside audience - whereby the fetishist and the transsexual are seen as different brands of the same thing, but most importantly its also where we get the problem of confusions in the minds of those on the inside of all this, and from which we get the ranking idea which then feeds outside and promotes further confusion.

The problem is that it is through these mechanisms that we get two very dangerous things occurring; we have crossdressers who think that in order to show commitment they ought to get into some or even all aspects of lasting transition, as well as those crossdressers who feeling shame at their preference go for transition in order to somehow justify it. Lets be clear - transition is not easy, carrying huge health risks, social risks and financial burdens, and for those for whom it isnt the right thing it can easily result in suicide. On the other hand we have people who really ought to transition but who dont, convinced that they could be happy as they are, further down the "ranking" - and this too often ends up in suicide.

And the ultimate reason for this spectrum and ranking approach is the perceived shame of being a crossdresser - a shame to which adverse comments about crossdressing only adds.

Crossdressing guys - youre OK as you are! Enjoy your preferences, and dont think for a moment that "going further" will make it better or more acceptable. It may not be the preference of many ladies, but then youre looking for one special lady, not any lady.

And ladies - if its not your thing to have a man crossdressing then thats OK too, and its OK to say so - but please avoid judgemental attitudes?

As for me, I prefer a man to be a man - but I have plenty of crossdressing friends and thats OK. If it makes them happy and theyre not hurting anyone (their wives are my friends too and they know all about their hubbies' tastes), its none of my business.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Reigna)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 3:33:28 PM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Ellen,

There is a question I'd like to pose for your opinion .. do the intersexed people feel that it is accurate to be put into the same catagory as a cross dresseer or drag queen? (I personally see that as totally inaccracy to do so). Intersexed people are not a fetish nor a choice.

I cant speak for intersexed people - though for me it would be wildly inaccurate to place such people in the same category as crossdressers of any kind.

As for those of us diagnosed and being treated for transsexualism, it would also be wildly inaccurate to put us in the same category as crossdressers of any kind too.

The intersexed are born that way - just like the black person the intersexed person has no choice in being the potential target of abuse. There's debate over we transsexual types as to whether we're born this way (which is gaining prevalence) or whether environmental influences make us this way (which is losing ground and which is far from the experience and testimony of those concerned). Its an important debate with many consequences to each version. And like the intersexed, we too really have little choice in the matter - one reaches a fork in the road at some point where its depression and suicide on the same path, or the hope of life down the other - but with the potential for becoming a target.
E

it is worse for those of us intersexed who dont even get to choose in our teenage years because that choice was taken away when we were born without consent/knowledge of said events. leaving most of us un aware of what happened to our bodies. a common mal practice until recent forbids against any dr touching a baby without parental knowledge/consent. yet it still happens today even with the law in place.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 4:05:05 PM

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

it is worse for those of us intersexed who dont even get to choose in our teenage years because that choice was taken away when we were born without consent/knowledge of said events. leaving most of us un aware of what happened to our bodies. a common mal practice until recent forbids against any dr touching a baby without parental knowledge/consent. yet it still happens today even with the law in place.

I'm often caught on this one though. On the one hand I find it absolutely unacceptable for the medical profession to be deciding what's "for the best" when really that decision lies firmly with the person concerned, when theyre able to make that decision. On the other hand I know how it is to go through school being noticeably different, and paying a heavy price over years for that difference. I wouldnt want to be anyone else other than me, but sure as heck my life would have been a lot easier if I'd been more normal.

I think we're straying off topic quite a bit now, but I find the whole intersexed experience so interesting but requiring illumination that I hope I'll be forgiven!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 6:13:54 PM

Posts: 110
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

If it were not at least feared to be prevalent, then crossdressers should be a lot more prevalent in public. If it were not that such attitudes are present, then trans people of all varieties who have ventured out in public should not figure so frequently in police reports.

Maybe one day people will be judged by the content of their character and not their appearance, but that day is a long way off, if it is to come at all. The problem I believe is that anything which is incongruous to our environment and by extension upsetting to our worldview, will spark the survival instinct to either flight or fight, and the impression is that a male who chooses to don female attire is weak and so there is no need for flight. The same phenomenon occurred when black people started taking the wrong seats in buses in the southern US I believe.

E

Yes, I do believe that you are right in your thinking, and it certainly saddens me, but then again I find myself in bewilderment over a lot of things that attract the hatred of others, do something constructive, channel your hate and anger into finding a cure for poverty, or AIDS, or salination.

DJ

_____________________________

letting go is a freedom in itself
http://fetishfandango.blogspot.com/

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: attitudes in general towards sissyboys - 1/22/2008 6:44:00 PM

Posts: 123
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'm often caught on this one though. On the one hand I find it absolutely unacceptable for the medical profession to be deciding what's "for the best" when really that decision lies firmly with the person concerned, when theyre able to make that decision. On the other hand I know how it is to go through school being noticeably different, and paying a heavy price over years for that difference. I wouldnt want to be anyone else other than me, but sure as heck my life would have been a lot easier if I'd been more normal.

E

I strongly think that the idea that life will somehow be easier if a sex is 'assigned,' especially via an irreversible medical procedure, is complete bullox. As much as gender is a socially constructed idea, the biology of sex differences is so ingrained into our existence, from the levels of hormones to the formation of the brain, that no sort of operation, no matter how young, will somehow magically 'make' the child one gender or another. Because this has been practiced routinely for so many years, if it worked, intersexed people wouldn't know they were born that way. Everyone I've ever met or heard speak who identifies as intersexed knew, at an instinctual level, that something wasn't 'right.' It's not like their parents told them on their 18th birthday, "Oh, by the way, you were born with genitalia which was considered abnormal and corrected at birth without your consent."

This medical practice does nothing to actually help the welfare of the child. All it does is further stigmatize a significant, and sizable (I believe the estimate is 0.1% to 0.2% have 'corrective' surgery), minority of the population. While potential social treatment is a legitimate concern, it isn't one that can be solved with an operation. While the child is still young and physically immature, there's such a small difference between sexes anyway, that it is irrelevant. By the time assigning a gender truly does become 'necessary' to avoid simple social problems, the child would most likely have absorbed enough social stereotypes to choose for 'itself' which gender to emulate.

All 'normalization' surgery does accomplish is denying the person that choice and cause confusion later in life, often during puberty, when understanding ones body is confusing enough.

I also don't think this discussion is off topic of the thread. Crossdressing and sissification are certainly questioning societal gender norms, these same gender norms that cause doctors to advocate 'corrective' surgery. Some sissies may very well also be strongly influenced by societal norms and crossdressing is their outlet for their conflicting or confusing feelings regarding gender.

_____________________________

You see I'm not the kind of fella'
who can get off on vanilla.
No I need a little color in my sex.
--The Wet Spots

(in reply to LadyEllen)

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