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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 2:25:08 PM   
subtee


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I disagree. I believe many of those characteristics would be desirable and admired in a male leader.

Ain't no thang

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 2:29:07 PM   
luckydog1


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Believing a man is a false front who is out to bring Cronyism and Dynasty, and all the more dangerous because he is capable and ambitious, is a good thing?  I just don't see it.

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 2:40:46 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

 
I don't trust Hilary, Period. She is extremely ambitious, and got her first taste of D.C. power when she was in her twenties; she was first chair (assistant-to) Archibald Cox during the Watergate hearings! I almost wish I did believe in her, because I think she's going to win the election. She has the drive, the ability to manipulate crowds (the tears), and is offering an alleged radical change to the stimying politics and cronyism that is rampant in D.C. under Bush. What scares me, though, is that she will bring in her own brand of cronyism, and then there is the danger of dynasties being formed.
[snip]

Replace the female pronouns with male pronouns and the traits you're complaining about are usually thought to be positive and desirable in leaders, when used to describe men...

What is so sad is using being involved in prosecuting Watergate as being a bad thing for a dem. Anybody care to list the number of GOP presidential candidates, Speakers, House minority leaders and Senate majority/minority leaders who were involved in the Nixon administration? How about the number of prominent far right talking heads?

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 2:46:24 PM   
subtee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Believing a man is a false front who is out to bring Cronyism and Dynasty, and all the more dangerous because he is capable and ambitious, is a good thing?  I just don't see it.


Come on, man, you're rewriting:

quote:

I don't trust Hilary, Period. She is extremely ambitious, and got her first taste of D.C. power when she was in her twenties; she was first chair (assistant-to) Archibald Cox during the Watergate hearings! I almost wish I did believe in her, because I think she's going to win the election. She has the drive, the ability to manipulate crowds (the tears), and is offering an alleged radical change to the stimying politics and cronyism that is rampant in D.C. under Bush. What scares me, though, is that she will bring in her own brand of cronyism, and then there is the danger of dynasties being formed. If Clinton is elected, then we will have had two families controlling the White House for more than twenty years, which is unprecedented in the history of the office; children will have grown up knowing nothing but either Bush or Clinton--two extremes of the political spectrum, which could have long-reaching effects.


(Emphases added)

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 3:01:29 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

So my question is, what does everyone think of that?   Me I don't really have an opinion one way or the other but both bring up a lot of comments here so I thought we might want to discuss it.


I can't stand either of them  - never did, likely never will!

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 3:08:24 PM   
angelikaJ


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on NPR (all things considered) they discussed this tonight...
apparently,whileshewas on the board she did fight for women to have better opportunities...but was not very successful.

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 6:36:19 PM   
luckydog1


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Subtee, I was taught that the end of the paragraph is the conclusion, which is what I put the emphasis.  Not by looking for and highlight buzzwords.  Clearly he lays out some facts about her, and then draws a conclusion.  Ambition is kind of a nuetral thing.  I depends what you have ambition for.  Stalin and Hitler were ambitous.  And in the end of the paragraph, he concludes that she would use her strong assets for cronyism and dynasty.  Thats just not a postive assesment for a Man or Woman

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/22/2008 6:43:41 PM   
subtee


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Ah, that was the point of my post--the traits in an of themselves that were posited and taken by themselves would not describe an undesirable leader.

I am no apologist nor fan of Hillary's; the characteristics that she possesses that I find less than agreeable are those that I wouldn't like in a man either. I just find it interesting that people hate her for the things they wouldn't hate in a man. That's all.

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/23/2008 4:30:33 PM   
Feric


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subtee wrote:
>Ah, that was the point of my post--the traits in an of themselves that were posited and taken by >themselves would not describe an undesirable leader.

The point of my post was not to underscore Hillary's traits, but to point out that she has always had a flare for ambition. By working alongside Arichibald Cox at a young age, she showed that she desired to be in the center of a controversey, and to stand beside a powerful leader. Inevitably, this is a sign of someone who enjoys being in a position of power.

Following the Clinton administration, I read a number of books about how the Clinton White House worked, and came away with two inescapable conclusions: 1) The Clintons know how to run a tight ship, and run it well. They chose the cabinet people not out of favoritism, but because they are good at their respective positions. This shows good roganization skills, which are wholly necessary in politics. But, mor importantly, it shows an adept ability to make things happen.  And, 2) Hillary was no small figure hiding behind the throne, but an equal member of the Clinton White House, oftentimes acting as the Chief of Staff. Hillary has a strong political barometer; her sense of the politically appropriate is probably on the same level as that of Bush 41 (Daddy Bush), but without his blindness or naivete.

Hillary is a person who has her own ambitions, and knows just how far to push the envelope to get what she wants; she also knows how to shed her skin and change her appearance to appeal to the masses, which is something that her husband didn't. I think he learned that from her. If true, that makes her the brains behind Team Clinton. I've seen Bill Clinton speak, and after that, I understood the meaning of the nickname, Slick Willy. He has learned the lessons of mass appeal well. He's smart, and good at what he does, but there is no denying he knows how to work the masses. And if he does, what can we expect from his teacher?

>I am no apologist nor fan of Hillary's; the characteristics that she possesses that I find less than >agreeable are those that I wouldn't like in a man either. I just find it interesting that people hate her for >the things they wouldn't hate in a man. That's all.

But that's where you're wrong, subtee. I don't hate Hillary at all; I don't trust her. There's a difference.

In fact, of all the candidates arranged on the field, I can't find one that appeals to me. I'm a veteran political watchdog. I've followed politics for more than thirty years, and I have never seen a presidential race like this one. I don't think anyone in the running right now is ready to deal with the catastrophe that Bush 43 is handing off. This country is in dire need of change. We have been lied to, poisoned, and vilified as never before. The economy is tanking, and whoever gets into office is going to inherit a huge mess. I just hope that whoever wins is up to the job. I'm very much afraid that they won't be.


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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/23/2008 5:10:02 PM   
rubberpet


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I don't like either one of them.  Hillary and Wal-Mart are both bad for society.  At least at Wal-Mart, you can go and laugh at the rednecks...it's considered a redneck mall in Louisiana.

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RE: Hilary and Walmart - 1/23/2008 5:16:41 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Ah, that was the point of my post--the traits in an of themselves that were posited and taken by themselves would not describe an undesirable leader.

I am no apologist nor fan of Hillary's; the characteristics that she possesses that I find less than agreeable are those that I wouldn't like in a man either. I just find it interesting that people hate her for the things they wouldn't hate in a man. That's all.


Subtee, I'd hate them in a man too.

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