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Philosophers Corner - 8/30/2005 10:12:03 PM   
DeepWaters


Posts: 118
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		A question to you:

True or False:

Nothing is Forbidden...

Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/30/2005 10:23:48 PM   
ragdoll


Posts: 231
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters

A question to you:

True or False:

Nothing is Forbidden...

Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?


Who decides what the "Natural Law" is...?

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/30/2005 10:44:27 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline 		Nevermind!

< Message edited by brightspot -- 8/31/2005 5:30:20 PM >

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 12:27:21 AM   
pandoravampire


Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		True.
Only culture, nurture, nature makes things forbidden. But only in those in cirtain circumstance.

In the bdsm culture, where ppl are practicing safe sane and consentual, from within that premise, nothing else is forbidden. Peadophiles are forbidden as there is no consent, animals also cannot give consent. No scat is a personal choice that is common, but not forbidden.
For a no limit slave, nothing is forbidden.

Each person practices bdsm from their own subjective experience. If they make informed choices regarding their consent, then nothing is forbidden.
However, finding another with a reciprocal prediliction may prove tricky, the more 'forbidden' your tastes are.
Even within the hard core lifestylers, many things are still taboo, off limits, forbidden. It is our own personal choice. If we are the type of people that like to play on a edge, close to the forbidden, or from within it. So long as all parties concerned agree, go for it. But keep a bdsm diary of your play activities, so if anything goes wrong, your partner does not pay doubly for your death and other such protocols.

From another perspective, nothing is forbidden. Just say, i had a thang for kidnapping my dates, raping them anally with a strap on, force feeding them pussy, and supplying all their fluid/solid intake personally. I can do that. Because i live in society, i have to pay a price for breaking the law, my personal time in jail, persecution, loss of status, shame etc etc. But its my choice. I can kidnap and rape people, but i am incarcerated if caught and sentenced. So its not forbidden. Just not a wise decision.

I would say in summary, in bdsm it is not that nothing is forbidden, more that you have permission to try more experiences. More permission, liberty call it what you will.

thats my happorth worth

(in reply to brightspot)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 1:33:39 AM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline
quote:

For a no limit slave, nothing is forbidden.


Hummmm...Would you say that to.... Extensive self mutilation? Murder?
Murder of ones own children or intrusive parents? Cutting your Clit off, or any body part for that matter? Letting your Dom/me burn your nipples so they no longer exist? Making a serious death threat of the President? Robbing banks? Kidnapping children for "their" sexual pleasure, and worse yet, knowing the child will be killed? Just to throw a Few out there....

A few question's to a "no limit slave"?

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to pandoravampire)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 1:55:05 AM   
LaughingDan


Posts: 18
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		To forbid something is a form of coercion associated with an assertion of authority.

Certainly there exist entities (human, corporate and governmental) that assert authority and forbid things to that end, eg "Do not cum, slut", "Do not tresspass on the railways", "Do not drink and drive", etc.

So certainly there are things that are forbidden, it just depends on who you ask.

Oh you were referring to Natural Law were you?

In that sense, the laws of physics do not count in so far as they appear to be impersonal rather than assertions of authority.

So we are left considering the possibility of a conscious 'creator', as a possible source of said authority.

There is no evidence to suggest such an entity or indicate any of it's attributes should that be the case.

There is plenty of psychological evidence to show that such speculation is unreliable. There is a strong emotional component which impairs judgement. There is the known tendency of people to fall into the athropological fallacy (human-centrism, eg "man in god's image"). There is prejudice based on widespread indoctrination from childhood. Etc...

_____________________________

I write random stuff too.

(in reply to brightspot)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 2:04:55 AM   
LaughingDan


Posts: 18
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters
Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?


Any perversion which prevents reproduction would entail the rapid demise of said society... hardly functional in my book.

OTOH the planet is overpopulated already, so perhaps this should be encouraged for a little while at least!

_____________________________

I write random stuff too.

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 3:22:59 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Nothing is forbidden on a deep spiritual level, true but it is hard to live by, belive me, to belive that you belive that anything somone might do is as correct as what you do.

(in reply to LaughingDan)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 4:01:09 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Natural Laws are the Laws of Nature of which the Laws of Physics are only a part. Many areas of natural Law is subjective and can be manipulated or “bent” to use according to your nature. Too much bending can and does lead to devastating backlashes as nature redressed the balance. The Law of action and reaction still applies not only in the areas of Physics or Chemistry but in human dynamics too.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to nella)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 5:46:40 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters
Nothing is Forbidden...

True, at least on global terms.
quote:


Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?

Every perversion already is incorporated into functional society- the dark underground. The hidden taboos is very much a part of what helps define a culture as a whole.

Hypocrisy far from spells a cultures doom, in fact it often has encouraged a society to continue to prevail. Remember, Catherine the Great (one of my role models) was a huge proponent of equal rights, but was not about to change the social structure or slave issues of her time.

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 7:23:45 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?


Define natural law to you? Also who are we to truly judge what is right and wrong? What is doom?
What if a fuctional society is mass murder and we are all wrong? After all mass murder would solve our problem with overcrowding the earth.

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 8:17:11 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?


What you're calling a "perversion" might be more accurately described as a pathology - which sounds aweful in clinical sort of way, but really just means "an exaggeration of normality", i.e. starting with something "normal" and taking it further. Human behavior is a collection of pathologies, some of which are discouraged and called "perversions", others may be encouraged, but might in fact be more damaging to group fitness or a particular cultural state than the things that are discouraged.

We often encourage competiton to pathological levels for example, and that's probobly caused the doom of more cultures than any other single reason, as they exaust their resources, and are no longer able to maintain it in that particular state.

The Marquis De Sade for instance, predicted that the logical conclusion of capitalism would be a "war of all against all", and justified his behavior as simply capitalism taken to it's logical conclusion - don't know if I agree entirely, but certain aspects of it certainly seem to fit - I just happen to consider it one possibility in a set of probabilities. I don't know that he critiqued Smith line for line, I think it was based more on his observations of his contemporary political economy. It's something I've been meaning to investigate further, just haven't had the time.

Hypocrisy is a form of denial, and what effects it might have are relative to what exactly is being denied, and one cannot derive a general rule concerning the effects without examining the details.

If I get your general thrust however, I do believe that group fitness is best served by an "open market" so to speak, of ideas and behaviors - cultures that become too static or overspecialized in terms of specific behaviors often become "brittle", and lose their ability to adapt to changing conditions - and conditions always do change eventually.

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 10:04:36 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This sounds like "idle talkers' corner," not "philosophers' corner."

No philosopher would EVER say something like this:

quote:

Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society.


That's a textbook example of the "compound-question fallacy."

Look it up.

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 10:26:38 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaughingDan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters
Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?


Any perversion which prevents reproduction would entail the rapid demise of said society... hardly functional in my book.




Ummm... 'prevents'? As in sterilization? Most perversion doesn't cause reproduction, but it doesn't prevent it, either. People can have blow jobs and anal sex and still pop out the offspring from time to time. But maybe hysterectomies are becoming a fetish- as ProtagonistLily has suggested, perhaps I need to get out more.

Cane

(in reply to LaughingDan)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 12:12:13 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeepWaters

A question to you:

True or False:

Nothing is Forbidden...

Every perversion that does not violate a natural law, can be successfully incorporated into a functional society. The only thing that will surely spell a culture's doom is hypocrisy?


True.

Of nothing is forbidden - then everything is possible.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to DeepWaters)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 1:49:44 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

Hummmm...Would you say that to.... Extensive self mutilation? Murder?
Murder of ones own children or intrusive parents? Cutting your Clit off, or any body part for that matter? Letting your Dom/me burn your nipples so they no longer exist? Making a serious death threat of the President? Robbing banks? Kidnapping children for "their" sexual pleasure, and worse yet, knowing the child will be killed? Just to throw a Few out there....

A few question's to a "no limit slave"?

brrightspot



i don't believe pandoravampire meant the repugnant acts to which you refer brightspot, when describing "no limits". i also think you deliberately misread her so you could make "no limits" seem ridiculous. Well, it may be, taken to the extreme,. but P/pl interested in "no limits" seem to manage without making T/themselves ridiculous. What happened to the mutual respect owed by one of us to all of us?

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/31/2005 1:50:31 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to brightspot)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 4:09:55 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline
quote:

i don't believe pandoravampire meant the repugnant acts to which you refer brightspot, when describing "no limits". i also think you deliberately misread her so you could make "no limits" seem ridiculous. Well, it may be, taken to the extreme,. but P/pl interested in "no limits" seem to manage without making T/themselves ridiculous. What happened to the mutual respect owed by one of us to all of us?

pinkpleasures


I don't really care what you think.

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 4:42:31 PM   
Guest
 Lets keep focused on topic please.

(in reply to brightspot)
  Post #: 18
RE: Philosophers Corner - 8/31/2005 5:40:12 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline
quote:

Hummmm...Would you say that to.... Extensive self mutilation? Murder?
Murder of ones own children or intrusive parents? Cutting your Clit off, or any body part for that matter? Letting your Dom/me burn your nipples so they no longer exist? Making a serious death threat of the President? Robbing banks? Kidnapping children for "their" sexual pleasure, and worse yet, knowing the child will be killed? Just to throw a Few out there....

A few question's to a "no limit slave"?

*Brightspot


I wrote this to all "no limit slaves" because I really do wonder what "No Limit's" means to them. I went into outrageous limits to see if they were really "No Limits".
I am really curious as to how far a "no limits" slave would go under the command of their Dom/me?

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to brightspot)
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RE: Philosophers Corner - 9/1/2005 3:33:51 AM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

quote:

Hummmm...Would you say that to.... Extensive self mutilation? Murder?
Murder of ones own children or intrusive parents? Cutting your Clit off, or any body part for that matter? Letting your Dom/me burn your nipples so they no longer exist? Making a serious death threat of the President? Robbing banks? Kidnapping children for "their" sexual pleasure, and worse yet, knowing the child will be killed? Just to throw a Few out there....

A few question's to a "no limit slave"?

*Brightspot


I wrote this to all "no limit slaves" because I really do wonder what "No Limit's" means to them. I went into outrageous limits to see if they were really "No Limits".
I am really curious as to how far a "no limits" slave would go under the command of their Dom/me?

*Brightspot


Well as a "no limits" slave by definition, I can tell you that before I begged Master's collar, I did know that he is not the type of man to ask me to kill my children, lop off a body part, take part in terrorist activities, or go on a Bonnie and Clyde multistate crime spree. I know his previous slave, and was therefor assured by the fact that she still had all her bits and was, in fact, alive. One's collar should not be so tight that it cuts off oxygen to the brain. Retaining a bit of common sense is important in a "no limits" situation. Master does not like doctors and does not like hospitals, but if he were to drop to the floor in my living room not breathing, I would not kneel quietly by his inert body hoping he rises from the dead to give me a new command. I would call 911. If Master were to suddenly go completely insane and command me to perform a laundry list of felonies, I would similarly seek the immediate medical intervention he so obviously needed.

I have a question for people that wonder what would happen if a "no limits" slave were asked to hack off a body part. When has this ever actually happened? Usually the question is accompanied by "And don't respond with it will never happen." Okay then, my response is "I will think about whether I would obey or not until that that situation until it actually arises". That gives me plenty of thinking time. Pretty much, well... forever.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to brightspot)
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