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Addressing a few topics at once - 8/30/2005 10:21:37 PM   
lisaSea


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/27/2005
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Greetings Masters, Mistresses...
lo` slaves :)

I begged my heart out tonight, so that I may respond here before my week is up
( I was given the go ahead with the knowledge I will not return here to post for two weeks..although emails are still allowed!)

In this, I shall address a few topics at once, giving nothing but my opinion, in no way am I saying this is how all goreans live, simply drawing from personal experience gained over the years. I applaud this forum for allowing those who embrace the gorean life a way to show we are not all Trekkies looking for that elusive Tarn Ride. *smiles*. Wonderful effort and well done!

I have tried to put the thought out that this life is a mindset more then anything else. Physical strength, sexual games and cute little outfits are all fine and dandy, but that is not the bottom line, for us. Eventually in life physical strength gives out, sex is something remembered fondly and those cute little outfits are donated to the local used clothing store. Then what? Hopefully, what you have left is a union between two people where the root base remains servitude and the allowance. ( I serve, he allows *grins*)

I would like to speak on two subjects near and dear to my heart :) How to address a kajira. Master, my reply to you is simple..."in whatever manner you wish". As a slave to a gorean man I have no say in how a free person chooses to address me..period. I have learned over the many years to jump at just about anything, *grins*

As to the topic of weight management by Masters. Not something I see as a slaves place to address. It most certainly is not my place to imply a man is lazy or lacking pride for not micro managing his property. Bottom line, we are slaves in a lifestyle that is ALL about the men. As slaves, we do not have the right to chastise men for how they handle what they own. It is all personal and individual, but I can say without doubt that if I were to walk up to a gorean man, look him in the eye and tell him he is not managing his property correctly, my time in this collar would be shortened a great deal.

In our "circle", men may discuss such things among themselves, of course. One man may take a fellow man to task, it is just not accepted that a slave would attempt it. Masters favorite saying, "if it says it is a duck, it better damn well quack".
Kinda sums it up. I came to him six years ago and told him I was a slave, (quack, quack).. There have been some bumpy parts in the road, for sure, but he expected me to suck it up and "quack". I am doing my best duck impression.

All this lifestyle means to us is to be happy within yourself, be true to your inner core and claim responsibility for your own actions. Be whatever you are, just be the best you can be, in your own way.

Best of wishes to the Masters, Mistresses and slavetypes




Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 3:14:37 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
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that is a lovely post. While in a normal vanilla relationship or even in a Dom/submissive relationship one can question if it is right of the man, or the woman for that matter to try to force his or her partner to loose weight, to shape their bodies to their desire. But in a Master/slave relationship the right to object to such tretment has been given up by the slave part. While the Master might be kind and see that such an action will hurt his beloved slave and might not do it out of kindess, that is just that, a kindness nothing he have to do, for she is his property to do whit as he pleeses.

And there is the differece between submissive and slave in my opinion, not whatever or not you agree to clean floors, but whatever or not you agree to give up that mutch control over your life. If your Master wants you thin you better well get thin, if he wants you fat you better fatten up. He might be stern, loving, uncaring or kind, and you might be trated like a princess or the meanest servant, but that is his choice, and you have given up the right to object to it the day you agreed to become slave.

It always amases me when pepole new to D/s somtimes desides to become slave, Gorean or otherwise at the drop of a hat, it seam they do not realy realise what a monumental desition they are making, that or they have a wastly different opinion of slavery then i do.

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 3:50:25 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

As to the topic of weight management by Masters. Not something I see as a slaves place to address. It most certainly is not my place to imply a man is lazy or lacking pride for not micro managing his property. Bottom line, we are slaves in a lifestyle that is ALL about the men. As slaves, we do not have the right to chastise men for how they handle what they own.


Really depends on how a slave addresses it. To accuse any given man of not tending properly to his property or presuming to tell him how he ought to tend to it would certainly constitute the slave stepping out of her place. To observe that not all men tend to their property properly, or place varying degrees of importance on it, is just making an observation that can be readily verified, or not. Like all such observations, it can be made in a respectful way, or in a way that isn't. If the slave is incorrect in her observation, she'll undoubtedly be told so, but it's not stepping out of her place to make the observation as long is it is respectfully made.

On the subject of weight management specifically, there are those men who genuinely like a bigger girl, those who like a slender or fit girl and see that their girl is and remains so, and then those who would like a fit or slender girl even though their girl isn't, but just don't place enough importance on it to make it so. The men in the last group aren't hard to spot. They own the big girl, but (discreetly or not so discreetly) stare appreciatively at the fit or slender girls who enter their field of vision.

It's somwhat, though not exactly, analagous to how a man maintains his car. Some men could really care less if their car shines. They are more interested in how it performs, or it's fuel economy, etc., or to them a car is just a car, meant to get them from here to there. Other men would really like their car to shine, but it somehow just never makes it to the top of thier "to do" list to wax it. For still other men, it's a high enough priority that their car be immaculate that you'll see them in their driveway on the weekend, polishing and waxing. None of these men are wrong, they just have different preferences and priorities. It could be suggested that the men in the middle group might need to reexamine their priorities if driving a dirty car really bothers them, but that's about all.





< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/31/2005 3:56:30 AM >


_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to lisaSea)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 4:02:36 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It always amases me when pepole new to D/s somtimes desides to become slave, Gorean or otherwise at the drop of a hat, it seam they do not realy realise what a monumental desition they are making, that or they have a wastly different opinion of slavery then i do.


You're a smart girl, nella, and, as we say here in the U.S., you "have your head on straight". If you ever do choose to be a slave, you'll probably do well, because you'll understand what it is that you are choosing. Until then, saying that you are submissive, but not a slave, is just fine. There is no reason in the world to say that you are something that you aren't ready or willing to be.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 7:11:13 AM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Like all such observations, it can be made in a respectful way, or in a way that isn't. If the slave is incorrect in her observation, she'll undoubtedly be told so, but it's not stepping out of her place to make the observation as long is it is respectfully made.


The difference between "Master, I'm not sure this is a wise thing to do" and "Jeez, Man! Are you out of your Goddess damned mind???", Master? :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa
As to the topic of weight management by Masters. Not something I see as a slaves place to address.


we're required to be open and honest, and to express our opinions, even if they're negative ones. just so long as we do it in a respectful and pleasing manner. by expressing things, they can be addressed and corrected as the Free see fit. keeping concerns or thoughts to ourselves tends to lead to the "I knew that was going to happen" "Really? And you were planning on telling me when??" situation.

bringing things up as criticism or judgement is not our place. mentioning things that confuse or concern us so that the Free can act on them as they see fit, or not, generally tends to be encouraged. as we often say, we aren't doormats, and our observations and thoughts are both the property of those whose steel we wear as well as a resource they can use, if they choose to. concealing those thoughts not only denies our Masters what is theirs, deciding whether or not to bring it up is placing our judgement over that of the Free. "oh, it's not important" is not a definition we are permitted to make.

but that doesn't always mean a girl can get away with this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa
It most certainly is not my place to imply a man is lazy or lacking pride for not micro managing his property.


she isn't too sure what the debating term for that particular method is, but it's an old trick and doesn't work. you're correct, it isn't, but by stating it that way you're most absolutely doing it :P

there's a world of difference between doing the best duck impression ... and being a duck.

~miika
proud collared and marked property

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 7:18:22 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
Leonidas thank you for the compliment, it was a warming thing to say. i would have loved to be a slave, but when i was 10 years old i dedicated myself to the study of the occult, it might sound strange but it is true, it is my life and my sould and i would not have it any other way. Therefore i am submissive and not slave, for i could never stop practicing the occult, not even for my Master and therefore i could never give myself completly.

But to study Gorean philosophy have helped me a bit to understand who i am, and even if i know i can not take that step out fully, to understand that i want it has in a way given me new freedom and direction in my life, i ahve started to diet, to work on my weaknesses, trying to become a better person, for if i can not be a slave, i will at least be the best submissive i can be. Am i making any sense whit what i am saying or do i just sound crasy?

(in reply to miikaawaadizi)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 7:37:06 AM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nella
It always amases me when pepole new to D/s somtimes desides to become slave, Gorean or otherwise at the drop of a hat, it seam they do not realy realise what a monumental desition they are making, that or they have a wastly different opinion of slavery then i do.

unfortunately, it seems many do. many girls enter into this with an "ideal", a stylized version of how they things should be, how things should go.

and completely forget that at the end of the day, how they think things "should" be is irrelevant. by definition, how things "should", and indeed "will" be, is determined by the Free. the problem arises when what the Free decide "should" be conflicts with the sylized ideal the girl has about what "should" be.

as an example, Master Leonidas's channel, #gorean, has "channel girls" ... responsible for keeping the slave girls in line so the Citizens don't have to be bothered with it. there have been girls have entered Master Leonidas' channel and flat out refused to acknowledge that the channel girls have been given that task by him, that it's "not right" ... they are in effect placing their personal idealized version of how things "should" be over the way that a Free Man wishes his Home channel to operate.

it's hard not to judge, even for slaves. but the simple fact that most, including many who claim to be Gorean slaves, overlook is the fundamental one - the Free choose, they set the standards, they decide what is "right" within their sphere of influence. "Every Man is Ubar within the circle of his sword" ... slave girls need to remember that just as much as the Free do, this slave thinks.

~miika
proud collared and marked property

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 7:46:27 AM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nella
Am i making any sense whit what i am saying or do i just sound crasy?


yes to the first.

no to the second.

it's widely said that "if a Man can't Master himself, how can he hope to Master another?". she believes that there is another side to the coin - "if a girl doesn't know herself, how can she surrender to another?"

the first step to being happy within yourself is to actually know who you are to begin with. she thinks it's only then can you know what you are.

whichever path takes you to the place you're heading, nella, from what you've said this girl can only think you're going to be a very strong, and very valuable, individual, whether it be as sub or slave, Free or property to a Master. she wishes you most well!

~miika
proud collared and marked property

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 8:07:16 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
Thank you miikaawaadizi that is a butiful name by the way.

As to what you speak of, i agree, many come to D/s whit big stars in their eyes, and even more so to Gorean lifestyle i guess, thinking of pretty clothing and romantic slave/Master relationships, they often forget the reality, like little simple things like if you are a slave and you love classical music but you Master prefer rock, you might have to give up listening to the music you love, and if you love the contry you live in, but you Master want to move, you ahve no choice but move whit him.

As for that cat room, that is just lack of respect, when you enter another person`s chat room, you abide by their rules or get out, that is common pokiteness, but it seam out of fashion to be polite in this day and age.

(in reply to miikaawaadizi)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 8/31/2005 9:20:30 AM   
edana


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

but it seam out of fashion to be polite in this day and age.


hi nella,

i always enjoy your posts....

I wanted to make an observation about this statement. when people don't know each other i'd agree that being polite is not always the norm. Alot of that has to do with others insecurities, and disillusions about themselves and other people. it's easier to attack first, rather than wait to be attacked.

Where society is taking us now tho, is that when in "polite company" saying "feel good" statements no matter how ludicrous, is definitely IN.

"oh my gosh, ... i love that dress!... its so gorgeous" then behind that persons back, whispering about how hideous it truly is, and how could she show her face...

or, in context to this thread... the husband who when the wife says "honey does this make me look fat?"... "no dear! not at all..." and he turns the corner and wipes his brow... phew dodged a bullet.... men hate that question...

masters on the other hand, tend to be generally up front and honest.... if you want to know if that skirt really does make your butt look big... expect the truth.

lol.. that's always an awkward moment!


(in reply to nella)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 9/1/2005 9:05:23 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
Well to be honest is not realy not being polite in my opinion even if it is a negative thing one say, as long as one try to say it in an as little hurtfull way a possible. For example to say, that dress make you look disgustingly fat, like a lame elephant, might be rude, but saying simply, yes dear, i think that dress makes you look fat, but that is just the dress, the red one you have make you look gorgerous. That is a polite way of being honest, and honesty is a good thing in my opinion.

(in reply to edana)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 9/2/2005 4:22:39 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miikaawaadizi
as an example, Master Leonidas's channel, #gorean, has "channel girls" ... responsible for keeping the slave girls in line so the Citizens don't have to be bothered with it. there have been girls have entered Master Leonidas' channel and flat out refused to acknowledge that the channel girls have been given that task by him, that it's "not right" ... they are in effect placing their personal idealized version of how things "should" be over the way that a Free Man wishes his Home channel to operate.


I was puzzled reading this example. It was my understanding that #gorean was a discussion channel. I do not see why a mature responsible adult (slave girl) would need to be 'kept in line' when discussing topics in a chat channel. Maybe it is not them placing an idealized version but instead is confusion because reading this in your post made no sense to me.

(in reply to miikaawaadizi)
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RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 9/2/2005 4:57:07 PM   
edana


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I do not see why a mature responsible adult (slave girl) would need to be 'kept in line' when discussing topics in a chat channel.


hi kisshau,

Yes most often than not, everyone was mature and comported themsleves well. But just as other channels get the female version of the troll, so did ours. It was a rare thing. 'If' there were no masters present, we just had coded authority within the bot to remove someone if they were not adhering to the channel rules.

thats all...

In service,

edana


(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Addressing a few topics at once - 9/3/2005 3:32:32 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
Gorean chatrooms atract a few femenists that is just out there to bash it, just like Occult chatrooms atract a few fanatical christians that is there to bash it, and trolls in general come in all sices and shapes, a chatroom generaly needs to be kept in order if it is not to desend into chaos.

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 14
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