RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that

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RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 8:33:30 AM

tulitukka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bignipples2share

That was truely beautiful. Thank you.

~Big

Thanks,

Tulitukka

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Post #: 21

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 8:46:08 AM

bignipples2share

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I think the OP is missing that there are two types of "you can't be dominant if" concepts.

She is right that you can have all sorts of flaws and still be a wonderful dominant IF your controling another isn't a way to escape from dealing with own flaws. Bottom line, that is a form of co-dependency and is unhealthy for both parties.

I don't exactly grasp the co-dependency part in the subjects I've listed, unless you list much of what everyone does as being co-dependent.

Say one person likes to wear high heels, the other person loves to see the person in those high heels. Everyone knows how bad for you feet high heels are. Those beautiful pointy toes sure don't look like our foot, yet we cram our feet into them anyway. Is this not also a form of co-dependancy?

What of the ballet dancer who trashes her feet in the name of art and the people who pay to see such elegance. Rather far removed, but is it still not a form of co-dependency? Another one to make a person go hmmmmm.

quote:

Then there is the sillly threads about this or that act being "undominant"! Going down on a woman come up all the time as a "submissive" act, most here laugh when people say it. There are other silly examples but most of us get "if I, the dominant, want to do it, it is a dominant act"

I figure I only invite one person to be a partner in my life and my curtains are only open for the sunshine, not for people to look in and tell me what I'm doing right, or wrong.

~Big

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Post #: 22

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 8:56:07 AM

SubbieOnWheels

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Not sure if this is germaine to the subject, but there's that old quote: "With all her faults, I love her still." (Granted, he was talking about a country.) When I love someone, I don't love him BECAUSE of his faults, nor do I love him IN SPITE of his faults; I love him WITH his faults.

If I feel that my Dom is my Dom, then he's my Dom, and I'm his sub. The relationship is between the two of us and not open to discussion as to "how Domly he is or how subly I am."

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Post #: 23

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 9:00:43 AM

DiurnalVampire

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I have no desire to be perfect. BEcasue being perfect for one make sme not perfect for someone else. I have a dsire to be me, flaws and all. Someone doesnt like that, they they shouldnt be MY slave.

DV

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VampiresLair

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Post #: 24

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 9:11:06 AM

bignipples2share

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

An interesting post and a good one for spirited discourse--I for one am one of those that espouses, the " if you cannot control yourself..." mentality---to Me that hardly means that I am perfect, do not have flaws or weaknesses--however I DO mean, if someone cannot hold a job, pay their bills, be responsible for their UM obligations--I do not see how they can be responsible for someone else---and for that matter why would a sub choose someone like that---so I believe there is a balance, and yes people, especially Dominants are far from perfect, but there should be a level of responsibility as it relates to life basics.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this.

I'm probrobably not getting my point across well, I should have been in bed hours ago, so bear with me as I try to skirt around making this about smokers, etc.

If a person, knowingly puts himself in danger each day, should he never get into a relationship until he changes his ways. Because he does this, should he not get involved with anyone, not be capable of controling another person?
What if the Crocodile hunter were a Dom and his wife a Sub?

Okay..I'm not making sense to even me...LOL

Thanks to all for your great responses. I'll check back later after a bit of shut-eye.
I've enjoyed the pondering on the whole subject. I like things that make ya go hmmmmm

~Big

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Post #: 25

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 9:19:38 AM

RoughFN

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See, I never interpreted the "doms have to be in total control of themselves" rhetoric as requiring complete and absolute control over all aspects of their lives. But some things they do have to exert absolute control over.

At a minimum, they have to run a scene that way. For instance, my girl tried to get her husband to top her a few times (he wasn't into it), and one of the times he wanted to get fairly tipsy in advance to properly get in the mood. Big red flag. His judgement wasn't quite sound, he wasn't in complete control of his actions. I think basically all he did was whack her ass with a crop 'til she was badly bruised and then fuck her quickly. She got nothing out of it. She quickly made a rule that if he was going to top her, he was not going to be drunk/stoned/whatever when he did it. Yes, yes, he wasn't really into topping her and that made things bad too, but he wasn't in control of himself.

I know in scene not to go to certain points, even though it may be great fun or I may be tempted. Basically, you never let yourself get so caught up in the heat of the moment that you lose sight of the fact that you're the responsible party and have to be careful. There was a thread recently on choking, so that comes to mind for an example - you can go ahead and choke your slave. Hell, you can even do it to the point of her passing out (maybe), but you can't get so wrapped up in it that you don't let go and end up badly injuring or killing her. Perhaps too extreme and contrived an example, but you get my point.

I have my bad days where I'm just in a foul mood and stomping about. I don't play on those days. Because I know I'm in a bad mood and when I feel like I'm not quite keeping my grip on reality, I know that it's not safe to play. It still demonstrates control, IMHO, since I'm in control of myself enough to still step back and refuse to do anything despite the fact that I would otherwise still really like to.

To reveal my geeky side a bit, I really love the little speech Superman gave in the last episode of Justice League Unlimited -available here. No matter what, no matter how bad a day you've had, no matter how much you want to cut loose, there's always that part of you that still holds on and maintains control. That's always how I've viewed it.

Besides, what self-respecting dom wouldn't strongly self-identify with Superman, anyway?

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Post #: 26

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 9:31:21 AM

CalifChick

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Will you wear the tights Rough?

Cali
(someone had to ask)

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Post #: 27

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 9:33:07 AM

Aslanemperor

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I was impressed with the original post and must say I agree. I just had a similar argument with an ex-sub who claimed that a book stated that I would be catagorized as a "Fake and an abuser". Her reason? She ran off from home one day with some guy she had met and got pregnant with his kid. She then calls me and says she misses me, and tells me that if I was a real Master I would have tracked her down and dragged her back home. How NOT doing this makes me an abuser I don't know. My point being that I told her that the fact that I was compasionate enough to let her live her life if she was so keen on living it, and the fact that what she did hurt me, or that I've got a new sub I'm going to marry, does not make me less Dominant. It just means I'm a human and am looking for the RIGHT things in a relationship, rather then looking for some temporary thrill.
If I want a one night stand, I'll go to a bar. I got into this because most BDSM relationships are long term, if not permanent.

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Post #: 28

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 11:59:02 AM

RoughFN

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Will you wear the tights Rough?

Absolutely.

I was already Superman for Halloween in Kindergarden.
And 1st grade.
And 2nd...

That outfit probably still doesn't fit, though. At least not well.

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Post #: 29

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 12:51:41 PM

collaredncontent

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Joined: 1/21/2008
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As a sub/pet I do not expect perfection from my Master, and in return He doesn't expect perfection out of me. We both strive to be the very best we can as individuals and bolster each other in loving support. You could say He isn't the most dominant man in the world and show me someone who is and I wouldn't take a second glance. I love my Master for who he is even in his imperfections, because lord knows I'm not perfect either. Ever try not getting hard when you're told not to? yeah, that needs work. You get my point.

As a side thought to this post, which by the way I enjoyed reading your insights, does being a sub excuse you from all of the above? So I'm a sub, that means I can pig out, not watch my weight, smoke, drink, etc and expect my Master to either enforce a good lifestyle out of me or leave it be? It's no different. Being Dom doesn't mean you have to be perfect and being a sub doesn't excuse you from any obligation to try either. That's just my two cents.

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Post #: 30

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/24/2008 12:59:56 PM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: collaredncontent

As a sub/pet I do not expect perfection from my Master, and in return He doesn't expect perfection out of me. We both strive to be the very best we can as individuals and bolster each other in loving support. You could say He isn't the most dominant man in the world and show me someone who is and I wouldn't take a second glance. I love my Master for who he is even in his imperfections, because lord knows I'm not perfect either. Ever try not getting hard when you're told not to? yeah, that needs work. You get my point.

As a side thought to this post, which by the way I enjoyed reading your insights, does being a sub excuse you from all of the above? So I'm a sub, that means I can pig out, not watch my weight, smoke, drink, etc and expect my Master to either enforce a good lifestyle out of me or leave it be? It's no different. Being Dom doesn't mean you have to be perfect and being a sub doesn't excuse you from any obligation to try either. That's just my two cents.

lovely 2 cents...

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Post #: 31

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/25/2008 1:08:02 AM

bignipples2share

Posts: 611
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quote:

ORIGINAL: collaredncontent

As a sub/pet I do not expect perfection from my Master, and in return He doesn't expect perfection out of me. We both strive to be the very best we can as individuals and bolster each other in loving support. You could say He isn't the most dominant man in the world and show me someone who is and I wouldn't take a second glance. I love my Master for who he is even in his imperfections, because lord knows I'm not perfect either. Ever try not getting hard when you're told not to? yeah, that needs work. You get my point.

As a side thought to this post, which by the way I enjoyed reading your insights, does being a sub excuse you from all of the above? So I'm a sub, that means I can pig out, not watch my weight, smoke, drink, etc and expect my Master to either enforce a good lifestyle out of me or leave it be? It's no different. Being Dom doesn't mean you have to be perfect and being a sub doesn't excuse you from any obligation to try either. That's just my two cents.

Good thoughts there on the sub point of view. Yes, subs have flaws too. It's what each party can live with and be acceptable and can both work on, or be happy to ignore.

Maybe that dripping cheeseburger, as mentioned earlier, is fulfilling the subs desire for a different kind of sploshing. Do they only get to enjoy it if they're as thin as rails?

There's certainly a lot of smoking fetishists about. Either the Paris Hilton video (which I've not seen) brought it more to light, or created a new slew of people who thought it hot. Okay, whose resurecting those cabbage ciggs from the 60's and the clove ciggs.

Co-dependency, yes. As celticlord pointed out, "Whether they rule well, or rule wisely, is an entirely different matter". Not everyones fetish is going to be wise or healthy. What's a person to do when they still want that fetish?
If it's not directly hurting innocents, I don't think it can be said they can't be in control of another person.

Many of the things we do are argued as unhealthy, yet who stops all the people from squishing their feet into shoes that injure their feet, back, create headaches......it's more..oooo look at those lovely shoes and look how beautiful it makes her legs look.

And yup, I love a great looking pair of shoes and have my nose smashed against the window looking in and wishing I could still wear them.

~Big

~Big

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Post #: 32

RE: You do this, therefore, you can't be that - 1/25/2008 1:09:33 AM

bignipples2share

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RoughFN

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Will you wear the tights Rough?

Absolutely.

I was already Superman for Halloween in Kindergarden.
And 1st grade.
And 2nd...

That outfit probably still doesn't fit, though. At least not well.