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Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 3:17:21 PM

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In the Ask a Mistress section, there are a few threads on cross dressing and/or sissies. I'm wondering why are so drawn to dressing en femme. By their own admission, the majority are het males. Women do it but not to the extreme that the men do. Do any het women out there dress up as men for sexual gratification?

(Warning-semi-rant follows)

If men want the female experience.. why do they not immerse themselves into it.. you know, like have their paychecks reduced 20% to do their same job or undergo the pain of plastic surgery to become the ideal of what the opposite sex thinks a woman should be. If a woman dresses a man.. will she receive the same respect, wages and perks as a man does? How accepting are those males of the other side of the coin then?

If the male world is so stressful.. the one THEY created. What makes you think the female side is any easier?

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RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 3:27:53 PM

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I have a feeling that male sissies are trying to rekindle their relationship with their mother, but it's probably because I read too much Freud in my youth.

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RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 3:28:24 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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Hiya LS,

Briefly, my understanding of male crossdressing is that society has had a powerful shift in terms of how it views male sexuality. Some men grow up either without a strong male figure, or a strong abusive male figure, causing the man to become ashamed of his sexuality. One of the easiest ways for a man to divorce himself from traditional male sexuality, is to simply adopt female sexuality. After that short leap is made (especially around puberty) turning back can become nearly impossible. The taboo of the issue drives communication about these desires underground, and they're never addressed in an open, frank manner.

Stephan

_____________________________

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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

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(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 5:21:05 PM

kdsub

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Nope… no mumbo jumbo psycho-babble about moms and abusive fathers… It is strictly brain chemistry

(in reply to Stephann)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 5:23:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nope… no mumbo jumbo psycho-babble about moms and abusive fathers… It is strictly brain chemistry

...no nurture, just nature? That doesn't make sense......

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 5:31:57 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nope… no mumbo jumbo psycho-babble about moms and abusive fathers… It is strictly brain chemistry

...no nurture, just nature? That doesn't make sense......

Perhaps I should amend my last statement to... just in my case.... no weak absent father... no domineering mother… good normal happy childhood… I am not a sissy…It is just in my head I like it…

Butch

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 5:41:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

If the male world is so stressful.. the one THEY created. What makes you think the female side is any easier?

The Men who live in the world today aren't the ones who created it. Men today are as much the victims of a patriarchal society as women are, just in different ways. Men are expected to act and behave a certain way that may be contradictory to their nature...just as women are. One shouldn't bring just men for all the problems women face. One should be ultimately prepared to blame men, women(yes, there are women who've hurt women's rights), and various bits of circumstance.

I'm not saying Women don't have it hard. I've studied women rights in detail, and I consider myself a pretty strong feminist. I just believe it's incorrect to state that the men of todays society created the problems.

They haven't. They were born into them just like everybody else. They're products of our society. Not the creators of it(Early Societies/Religions IMO).

The creators of it have been dead for thousands, I believe.

---

Now to crossdressing. Crossdressing is something my Owner enjoys and I do it, once in a blue moon, to please her. It's something I also happen to enjoy myself I'm feminine to begin with, and I've always been a feminine person. I'm not a women, and I don't have a desire to be. I don't have to dress to embrace my femininty or my feminine side. It's a state of mind.

I love being male, I had an amazing, strong father who was a strong masculine influence in my life. That being said, there are parts of my personality that are feminine by nature. I shouldn't act if these don't exist just for the sake of "being a man"

Femininity and Masculinity aren't(or shouldn't) be exclusive to gender to begin with. Since they're ideas, largely created by society, that tell men and women how to act. In reality...I just don't think it works out so well.

Women don't have a monopoly on femininity either. No more than Men have a monopoly on masculinity. There's no certain way men or women should -have- to act. We, no matter our sex, should be allowed to act and behave according to our natures. I don't really get the over-the-top, glam filled, crossdressers who seem to almost be mocking women sometimes in a lot of people's eyes(No offense to them, that's just how it comes off to some people)

Granted, I do believe there's a lot more to embracing ones feminine side than putting on a pair of painties. One can embrace one's feminine side without dressing up at all, can't they? Also, I have a pet peeve on people who feel they should be feminized before they can be submissive, somehow implying that submissiveness is something only a female, or feminized person should enjoy. I tend to dislike that, personally.

But... They're still free to practice what they love, aren't they? It's harmless.

Maybe my opinion doesn't matter because I'm not a focused on crossdressing, but I thought I'd give it.

Just my views and opinions on the matter, at any rate. :-)

< Message edited by Shawn1066 -- 1/24/2008 5:55:27 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 5:48:24 PM

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Actually, some men DO go for all of that. They're called M2F transexuals. I think the desire to adopt a female identity is really a matter of degree, rather than of kind. To some, it's a way of worshipping the idea of the "female." To others, it can be a whole other alternate persona. (I dated a TG girl myself for about a year and a half. Aside from when we were in bed, it was really difficult to keep reminding myself that she was genetically "he."

(in reply to Shawn1066)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 6:09:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

If men want the female experience.. why do they not immerse themselves into it.. you know, like have their paychecks reduced 20% to do their same job or undergo the pain of plastic surgery to become the ideal of what the opposite sex thinks a woman should be.

20%? As long as i can make it up stripping or whoring, i'll accept the trade-off.

As far as plastic surgery, not a single woman in my family has had it done, so i'll pass on that. Maybe we're just a prettier people.

quote:

If a woman dresses a man.. will she receive the same respect, wages and perks as a man does? How accepting are those males of the other side of the coin then?

Some would argue that a lot of modern business-women pretty much are dressing as men... their suits may be cut differently, but they're still wearing suits. i don't expect you'd see a lot of pretty pink frillies in the boardroom on either gender. Granted, i've never been in a boardroom, but i've seen a bunch on TV. No pink frillies.

i'm not sure what perks men receive that women don't... i know we usually don't paid maternity leave... but again, i've never been in an executive suite, maybe the bathrooms have blowjob attendants? High-rollers, feel free to chime in. i bet Trump and Ellison have them.

As far as respect? Respect is earned, no matter who you are. Nobody looked in my trousers went i interviewed for my job... they just wanted to know what i could make the machines do.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 6:12:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

If men want the female experience.. why do they not immerse themselves into it.. you know, like have their paychecks reduced 20% to do their same job or undergo the pain of plastic surgery to become the ideal of what the opposite sex thinks a woman should be. If a woman dresses a man.. will she receive the same respect, wages and perks as a man does? How accepting are those males of the other side of the coin then?

I have to be honest with you.. this is sort of sexist. (Yes, accusing others of being sexist soley based on their gender, such as "men", is also sexist.)

1.) Just to point it out, my female Statistics professor made a point of showing that the "20% lower wages" thing wasn't true. (She also did a lot of things on how cigarrettes are bad for you and about why certain medical exams can cause more stress than good, etc.)

2.) What's a "het male"?

3.) Why do women have to undergo any surgery? Who's making them?

If there was suddenly a surgery to increase penis size, do you think men would get it? Do you think women are making them?

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 6:17:53 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Some would argue that a lot of modern business-women pretty much are dressing as men... their suits may be cut differently, but they're still wearing suits. i don't expect you'd see a lot of pretty pink frillies in the boardroom on either gender. Granted, i've never been in a boardroom, but i've seen a bunch on TV. No pink frillies.

College girls love to wear boxers now. They'll wear shorts and pants, often in the style that men do. I haven't had a sub yet who didn't like to wear my clothing sometimes when I was away.

Yeah. It's men who are crossing the gender line, right? They should be so ashamed! It obviously stems from their inferiority complex.. the same one that makes them pay women less money. ;)

Sorry LotusSong. Maybe you're feeling down, or oppressed by an individual who happens to be a male.. but the sexist bit here isn't going to fly.

(in reply to petdave)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 6:29:59 PM

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Its probably not an answer you are looking for, but crossdressing has nothing to do about wanting to be the opposite sex. And the vast majority of male crossdressers are not homosexual or even bisexual. The reason for doing it is usually just simple curiosity or a change in perspective or point of view. Most crossdressers start as teenagers when their hormones are raging and they suddenly become vastly interested in the opposite sex. Most simply grow out of it. Those that dont simply find it as a release of sorts from the typical male stereotypes. They find it as a way to relieve stress associated with their normal life by acting out a different role.

The few that do it because they actually want to be the opposite sex obviously have something else going on. And that's a different issue than what you're asking.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 6:43:28 PM

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I really cannot complain about cross dressing men wanting to wear a more expressive wardrobe, have fancy hair styles, get manicures, etc.

But beware getting in a fight with one of the bigger cross dressers over a frock on a clearance rack or the last pair of size 10 pumps!

(They still have the upper body strength you know!)

_____________________________

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 7:33:12 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

In the Ask a Mistress section, there are a few threads on cross dressing and/or sissies. I'm wondering why are so drawn to dressing en femme. By their own admission, the majority are het males. Women do it but not to the extreme that the men do. Do any het women out there dress up as men for sexual gratification?

(Warning-semi-rant follows)

If men want the female experience.. why do they not immerse themselves into it.. you know, like have their paychecks reduced 20% to do their same job or undergo the pain of plastic surgery to become the ideal of what the opposite sex thinks a woman should be. If a woman dresses a man.. will she receive the same respect, wages and perks as a man does? How accepting are those males of the other side of the coin then?

If the male world is so stressful.. the one THEY created. What makes you think the female side is any easier?

I noticed this years ago.
I have yet to see many female submissives that crave to be male cross dressers.

You do have "Butch" Lesbians that enjoy looking and dressing like men.
I don't see the appeal for most straight women to want to look and dress like men.

I don't see any difference between men with CD and strap-on training fetishes and women with
financial domination fetishes or those that want a stable of slave boys to take care of them.

Many men crave to dress like women, and many women crave to have their financial
needs taken care of.

In fact many Professional Dominants specialize in cross dressing fetishes, applying make-up,
teaching men to walk in heels, will take them shopping for clothes, wigs, etc. and the works.
There is a market for it!

Many of us have itches that need to be scratched.

To each their own!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/24/2008 7:49:07 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 7:51:11 PM

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Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

If men want the female experience.. why do they not immerse themselves into it.. you know, like have their paychecks reduced 20% to do their same job or undergo the pain of plastic surgery to become the ideal of what the opposite sex thinks a woman should be.

I have the answer to that one:

We'll gladly have our paychecks reduced 20%....screw that...30% even, when women start buying our dinners, give us 2 carat diamond rings, pay for every movie and bag of popcorn we want, cars, houses...etc....etc....etc.

(And give us half when we leave).

When that world exists...I'll even work for free.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 8:05:22 PM

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Hiya LS,

Briefly, my understanding of male crossdressing is that society has had a powerful shift in terms of how it views male sexuality. Some men grow up either without a strong male figure, or a strong abusive male figure, causing the man to become ashamed of his sexuality. One of the easiest ways for a man to divorce himself from traditional male sexuality, is to simply adopt female sexuality. After that short leap is made (especially around puberty) turning back can become nearly impossible. The taboo of the issue drives communication about these desires underground, and they're never addressed in an open, frank manner.

Stephan

Food for thought. .. thank you, Stephann :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to Stephann)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 8:10:04 PM

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

And thanks for your thoughts on the subject also, Shawn

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to Shawn1066)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 8:11:32 PM

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Joined: 9/30/2007
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There's quite a bit of good research out there concerning transvestites and what motivates them. As I understand it, there are a couple of different twists on it.

To throw out an interesting angle for thought, what about women who get a real kick out of humiliating men by dressing them up in women's clothing? I've had several Domme playmates that really got into that and wanted to do it to me (sorry, not my kink). You never hear of Doms or Dommes wanting to dress their female subs up as men to humiliate them.

This details speaks a great deal to me about the social ideology that drives a lot of it. Here we have strong, self confident women who get a kick out of humiliating men by dressing them up in the same manner that they dress on a daily basis. What does that say about social norms?

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 8:20:55 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

And thanks for your thoughts on the subject also, Shawn

You did not say you appreciated my thoughts.
booo hooo

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Male Fantacies - 1/24/2008 8:21:17 PM

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

If men want the female experience.. why do they not immerse themselves into it.. you know, like have their paychecks reduced 20% to do their same job or undergo the pain of plastic surgery to become the ideal of what the opposite sex thinks a woman should be. If a woman dresses a man.. will she receive the same respect, wages and perks as a man does? How accepting are those males of the other side of the coin then?

I have to be honest with you.. this is sort of sexist. (gee.. ya think so?) (Yes, accusing others of being sexist soley based on their gender, such as "men", is also sexist.)

1.) Just to point it out, my female Statistics professor made a point of showing that the "20% lower wages" thing wasn't true.  (I've heard it's as low as 30% less) (She also did a lot of things on how cigarrettes are bad for you and about why certain medical exams can cause more stress than good, etc.)

2.) What's a "het male"? (Het.. short for Heterosexual)

3.) Why do women have to undergo any surgery? Who's making them?  (Howard Stern..n he makes funof them if their boobs are too small then ridicules them if they have fake ones. )

If there was suddenly a surgery to increase penis size, do you think men would get it? (there is.. and they take their sweet time, dammit!!)

Do you think women are making them?   sigh.. would that they could. :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

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