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To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or You Are Not?


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To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or You ... - 9/2/2005 3:49:04 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or You Are Not?

Reading the posts here and on other sites and looking at the many questions I receive on email or messenger, the question arises as to who decides is one is Gorean or not.

My view would be it is the individual why decides is they are Gorean. However the situation arises how acceptable is the individual with the Other Goreans with whom he or she is in contact with. By and large, in the early stages many will be influenced by those whom they know and respect, yet there is not one standard by which all may be judged. As an example in my own case on my local scene, one kajira takes time to tell all who she knows and who want to meet me that I am not Gorean because I used to role play in MSN and later in GCN Gor rooms (That was my entry into Gor). Well that doesn’t wash with me as I have friends who still role play in Gorean Rooms and yet live a Gorean life style and like me know where to draw the line. There are those who do not have or read the entire Gor books and yet are exemplary Gorean Lifestylers. So the question still arises; To Be or Not To Be (Gorean) ~ I Am or I Am Not (Gorean)~ You Are or You Are Not (Gorean)? My reply is simple and to the point. If Gor is in your heart, then you are Gorean and no one can tell you different. Being accepted by the Gorean Community is a different story.

Let me be clear here, I do not question my own being Gorean here. I know I am. I simply pose questions as a mater of interest hoping to see interesting takes of other Goreans.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/2/2005 4:01:30 PM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
Thank you IronBear for starting this one. I know there are other threads that I need to finish reading that could possibly answer a few questions, but for now I'd like to pose a couple here.
quote:


If Gor is in your heart, then you are Gorean and no one can tell you different.


If I haven't read the books and my only experience with Gor is these message boards (for example), how would I know that Gor is truly in my heart? Could it be that I just like the 'idea' of Gor more than I might actually possess the heart of a Gorean? Or are those one and the same?



_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/2/2005 4:05:09 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

If I haven't read the books and my only experience with Gor is these message boards (for example), how would I know that Gor is truly in my heart? Could it be that I just like the 'idea' of Gor more than I might actually possess the heart of a Gorean? Or are those one and the same?


That opens up an interesting debare doesn't it? Personal view, I'd be wanting to read the books and learn more and even hook up with some Gorean friendlies who could further my education but thats just me.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to luvdragonx)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/2/2005 5:05:06 PM   
edana


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

how do I know that Gor is truly in my heart? Could it be that I just like the 'idea' of Gor more than I might actually possess the heart of a Gorean? Or are those one and the same?


well, you and your master could come visit us. we'd love to have you!

honestly that is really a great way to know. Other than a lot of reading, and really understanding what it is to be Gorean in the general sense, and deciding what it is to you.

We all have our own nuances when it comes to this way of life. and you can learn from others, both the good and the bad...

...i remember growing up saying to myself... "well at least i know how NOT to raise a child".

In service,

edana

(in reply to luvdragonx)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/2/2005 6:16:42 PM   
miikaawaadizi


Posts: 134
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Reading the posts here and on other sites and looking at the many questions I receive on email or messenger, the question arises as to who decides is one is Gorean or not.


*giggles* miika has managed to prove quite logically that the entire world is Gorean once upon a time ...

erm, she begs we skip going into the logic train of thought that proved it ... even for this slave, it's somewhat convoluted.

she does wonder however if, assuming the basic precepts of the philosophies are abided by, whether the key is not caring if you're considered "Gorean" or not? given the emphasis for individuality and knowledge of self, she does think that her Master sums it up quite nicely when the topic is raised: "I am what I am and I don't need no damned labels to tell me what that is, now quit bugging me girl before I notice the state of the cat litter"

perhaps the Free define the labels, the labels don't define the Free?

~miika
proud collared and marked property

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/2/2005 9:58:08 PM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
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Masters, Mistresses, girls....

This may be a rambling reply...but its been a day that is fumbly...and sometimes emotional responses are good.
This girl is currently guidedly in the possession of a Friend of the house, whilst her Owner prepares for deployment to the great sandbox again. Today she was given several taskings that burned like hell...but she still had no choice but to do them...because innately she is a Gorean girl.
The Master's Free Companion is having a birthday today...and the girl had to go and buy Her a card, purchase things for Her cake...and sit in the Masters truck on a two hour ride each way to purchasing Her present. she then had to wander aimlessly for an hour and a half in Seattle as the Master purchased Her present...(He was in a store the girl could not accompany Him in, due to them being familial friends and nonGorean. )
she went on this diversion knowing full well she would not be touched...because after all it is Her birthday...and He is an aging Master...and a Man only has so much to give :)....but she was pleased just to be breathing in the same air His voice was carried on.

There she stood, then walked toward the store...tears in her eyes, a knot in her gut....yet still she was compelled to read each card, pick the very best one...get exact change and a receipt and return to Him. He was standing by the car...having finished His own errand...and with no thought what so ever, she held her head high, walked to Him strong and smiled. Because it was what He needed of her, what was expected of her, what is her place. And at times that place can seem humiliating....dehumanizing...and that is the whole point. They are Free...and we are NOT.

With her Owner gone so much, she has frequently lost sight of who she is, and so she is in the hands of Men who will not let her forget her place this time.

It is much the same experience as watching her Owner with another girl...painful, agonizing, yet joyous...because He is pleased.

All she can truly offer, is that for her...selfless service isn't really anything she strives for, it is just who she is. And its not always easy..its a diachotomy...its agonizing at times...but still fulfilling and noble and "good"....there is a calming resilience in knowing one's place. Whatever place that may be...and she thinks this may be the defining factor in who is or isn't Gorean...in and of itself. This is her natural state...the core of who and what she is.
Montaigne said that "the noblest virtue comes at the highest cost". This is true of honor, valour, courage ofcourse. But it is also true of selfless service.

This post will likely strike controversy...but it is truth, from the mouth of just one humble girl.

Gloriae Dominae naturae est sum
Aeterus devoverum.


sabrina King



< Message edited by bottominwa -- 9/2/2005 10:01:26 PM >

(in reply to miikaawaadizi)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/2/2005 10:07:45 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
Tal and greetings all...

This is a question we have debated for years. There are still no answers that everyone can agree on. The short answer is if you LIVE by the Gorean philosophical tenents and the ethics that go with them...If you include a few of the cultureal (book) items within your life...If you self-identify as a Gorean Free Person...and If others who are acknowledged as Gorean agree that you are Gorean...then you may well be Gorean.

I would say that if you identify yourself as something else first, you may not be Gorean. If you spend most of you time and energy in the BDSM lifestyle, you not Gorean. If you self-identify as a sadist you are probably not Gorean. If women and subs run your kink...you are definately not Gorean. <grins>

Be well all....

Malkinius

(in reply to miikaawaadizi)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/3/2005 3:19:18 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
i would say that you are that you deside you are. If ou deside you are a Gorean than that is true for you, ofcourse others may not cosider you as such and not welcome you f they think your lifestyle is not Gorean, but in the end of the day it is not who acepts you that is inportant, it is how you acept yourself.

(in reply to Malkinius)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/7/2005 7:56:30 PM   
buffiyum


Posts: 119
Status: offline
First i would have to say that for a long time in this girls life there was not any thoughts spoken aloud because the girl was punished if that happened.
i learned the wisdom of never speaking any thoughts at all.
i grew up believing that women should not speak unless spoken to.
i grew up believing that Men alone are permitted to make any decisions about the women around them.
i do not believe this quite the same any more.
See, i grew up and left home and the world entered the girls life and some decisions had to be made, not by the absent father but by the girl.
i did not do the deciding well but i did it.
i did learn some things though from the childhood that i had. i learned that some of the things i was taught i do believe.
They are this: Men are the naturale rulers. women are the naturale followers. Some Women do not fit into that and this is 'being true' to what They are, inside. To this i say, right on! i am happy that Ppeople find what Tthey are in Ttheir spirits and be 'true' to that, whether it is as a Free or as a slave or Oother.
i have to say that i did try to become a 'womens libber' but it just did not work for me. i do not put down Anyone else for being that or for believing differently. Eeach to His or H/her, own. it just is not for buffy.
i learned that i love to be of use to People, mostely Men. i learned that when Men say that i have done well i feel very happy inside. To serve is to be happy. i feel good when Men pass by and give the girl a lingering look or a smile. That means i have been pleasing in some way, even if it is only in how i look.
i learned that this is how i really feel inside, not because i fear to act otherwise because of punishment like when i was a child, but because that is the innate spirit of the girl.
When i entered the Life, it was using online at first and i actualely decided to be a Domme, when asked what i was (and after someone kindely explained what the heck it was). That lasted a whole 10 minutes so i was not a Domme. i kept asking for help on what to do and begged people to stop asking me what to do. Heck i panicked. Not a Domme for sure, me.
i then decided on a switch (the best of both worlds eh). but that didnot seem quite right either. i do not wish to inflict things but to be the receptor of the inflicting.
Like goldilocks i wandered around in all of this testing the waters until i came to realise what i am it is a slave. Not a submissive, but a slave. Of course, i had help getting there, a lot of it. god knows i needed it.
Now, as to Gor.
i believe in the tenets of John Norman as stated in His books. i believe in the naturale superiority of Males over females, which is the first basis which stands out (at least for me) from His books.
i love serving and being of use, pleasing and obeying. i am a sexuale creature and cannot hide that even if i wish to which i do not. i glory in what i am and that is the truth. i do not ask others to be that way nor do i feel that i am in any way 'better' than anyone else who doesnot feel in the same way that the girl does. it is just what i am.
i help teach others when asked, the serves and positions in r/l that i learned so well in the online and for which knowledge i am so very grateful (well, except for the gorean bow which i cannot do. Can anyone do that? if so, then holymoly you rock, whoever you are).
i am a gorean slave.
i am also one who love the kiss of the flogger and the bite of the ropes when a One bind the girl unless the girl is being punished. Being punished has a whole nother emotional and mental 'feel' to it which removes the joy from the act itself. Of course being bound and flogged for punishment confuses the girl and it is not usualely done by Anyone to buffy for that (god help Wwe should confuse buffy any more than she is eh).
Does that make me any less gorean? well of course not. i am what i am inside, period. There is not a Oone who can take from me that. This is not Ttheirs to take.
One of the most respected and amazing Gorean Masters it is buffy's privilege to know in r/l, is also a Master Flogger renowned for His Incredible Expertise. Is He any less Gorean because of this expertise? well of course not. It means He is what He is and is also skilled in a particular area.
Wwe are what Wwe are.
Wwe do, what Wwe do.
i think that about sums it up for buffy.
respectfully submitted,
buffiyum

< Message edited by buffiyum -- 9/7/2005 8:17:50 PM >

(in reply to nella)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/8/2005 2:08:07 AM   
flaire


Posts: 60
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline
Dear Ironbear

Now, it's quite obvious that I'm not a Gorean. I think I stand somewhere between the BDSM community and the Gorean one. Maybe I treat the whole experience like a pick-and-mix stall. I take and use the bits that appeal to me. I've always found the 'my way or the highway' of both communities rather worrying.

The Goreans say 'this is real submission, the only true way', while the BDSM community say 'you're dangerous and mysogistic'. I don't know who's right. I think there's an element of truth within both camps.

How did I find the strange and wonderful world of Gor. I was twelve when my brother borrowed Kajira of Gor from the library. I was entranced by the front cover. So I borrowed it off him. Now, my mother found it and after giving my brother such a serious talking to (along the lines of how dare you bring this rubbish into this house, how dare you let your sister read such mysogistic piffle) she banned them. It took three years for me to finally pluck up enough courage to borrow another one from the library.

Over the years, I've read most of them and on discovering IRC I realised I wasn't alone in my rather odd desires. I started within the BDSM community as that is the most accessible. When I met Altheus he too shared an interest in Gor. Actually, we started our relationship over a sword fight.

In the intervening years, our relationship has grown and developed. It's been a glorious journey and long may it continue. We will find our true way. It's probably going to be our version of Gor (with a healthy dollop of play thrown in for good measure).

So, to answer your question, to the purists I'm not. To the BDSM community I am tarred with the same brush. Who said life was fair? From what I've discovered, it certainly isn't cricket .

f x

_____________________________

Stand before your god, bow before your king and kneel before your man - Nanny Ogg, Lords and Ladies

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: To Be or Not To Be ~ I Am or I Am Not ~ You Are or ... - 9/10/2005 10:40:46 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
I’ve reviewed my life and found that when I discovered Gor and especially the Gorean Lifestyle I was able to fit all I have been taught and brought up to believe in slid comfortably into it. The concepts of Honour, Duty, Courage, Honesty, Loyalty and for me Control of my own Destiny were by and large also found in Gor. (Not surprising really is it? After all these things were around well before Gor was conceived.) Still I am one of those people who are never happy unless I can place things in non-rigid boxes) Some of my friends tell me that I should be placed in a safe place and let loose in times of war or sent back in time to the eras in the UK where I would fit in far better (Ok then make it 12thC). The world as I knew it as a child has undergone huge sociological changes, many of which I disagree with but that’s life isn’t it? I hold to the belief that the “Goreaness” in many of us will be more of a help than a hindrance in forging ahead and evolving with a new face on society and sociological future. The truth is, I really don’t give two hoots if some recognise me as Gorean ~~~ I know I am and that is what counts. (If any near me wish to challenge me, then I’ll be happy to demonstrate that I can pluck a volo faster than they can)

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to flaire)
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