I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (Full Version)

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sillyfrillyboy -> I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/5/2008 11:34:36 PM)

I am very new to the community and wonder if any other subs have gone through this and how the got passed it so they could just enjoy themselves.

I have recently started going to local munches and the local dungeon and I must say I have never felt so peaceful then when I am being submissive to a women. I love finally being able to talk openly about the things I enjoy with like minded individuals and have met some really great people who except me for who I am. The issue is when I am by myself I start to feel guilty for being who I am. I refuse to give into this BS that goes on in my head about what it is to be a "man" or whatever and was hoping for some feedback from others who may have overcome this internal stupid shame I sometimes feel. Logically I know its a bunch of hewey but feelings are feelings and must be dealt with or they will deal with you.




suessub -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 12:23:27 AM)

For me, it has been accepting my masochistic self. In the beginning of a session, I can feel the conflict inside me as I resist against enjoying the pain. A panic can set in where my brain is screaming that I should not be letting this happen to me. When this kind of intense play was new, the worst would come afterwards. I would feel like complete crap. "Real men" are not supposed to enjoy having women beat them into submission. But dammit, I love how I feel, both during and after.

After a weekend long event my Mistress/wife and myself went to, while in such a bad way, I wrote one of the senior Dommes we know and mentioned to her how I felt. And to this day, her words help me when I need it: "You silly boy, there is nothing wrong with you."

And there is nothing wrong with you or me. People love differently. Always have and always will. Look at the vanilla world. They don't seem to have the key to happiness. To be happy, each of us needs to find our own path. No one knows the path for everyone. When the doubt and recriminations come, I counter it with knowledge that I have had the courage to find that kink in me that lets me wake up my path to happiness.



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 12:47:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: suessub

For me, it has been accepting my masochistic self. In the beginning of a session, I can feel the conflict inside me as I resist against enjoying the pain. A panic can set in where my brain is screaming that I should not be letting this happen to me. When this kind of intense play was new, the worst would come afterwards. I would feel like complete crap. "Real men" are not supposed to enjoy having women beat them into submission. But dammit, I love how I feel, both during and after.

After a weekend long event my Mistress/wife and myself went to, while in such a bad way, I wrote one of the senior Dommes we know and mentioned to her how I felt. And to this day, her words help me when I need it: "You silly boy, there is nothing wrong with you."

And there is nothing wrong with you or me. People love differently. Always have and always will. Look at the vanilla world. They don't seem to have the key to happiness. To be happy, each of us needs to find our own path. No one knows the path for everyone. When the doubt and recriminations come, I counter it with knowledge that I have had the courage to find that kink in me that lets me wake up my path to happiness.


Thats was really good stuff. Thanks a bunch it helped allot.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 2:58:24 AM)

We've all had to overcome societal programming. Some have had an easier time of it than others. My best advice is to acknowledge the voice when you hear it, but mentally tell it to go away, then deliberately think the opposite thing. The more you do that, the more you will program new neural pathways. The more you think a thought, the more established the pathway and vice versa. It takes time, but you can really reprogram yourself. Just keep at it.

Master Fire



ProlificNeeds -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 4:46:45 AM)

You were preprogrammed like many to think 'being a man' involves certain behaviors. Being submissive does not make you weak, being submissive does not make you stupid, or lazy. If anythign beign submissive means you are stronger, and more independant in your thoughts and actions than those who toil along with 'socially acceptable' in favor of what they might feel otherwise.

Try making a list of what character traits bother you, what character traits you think you should have. Analyze that. Have a friend fromy our BDSM circle help you analyze them, I think you might find you're quite a 'man' as it is. The traits you think you need to have, are no doubt already there somewhere. Finding respect for yourself, is something many people struggle with, not just inside BDSM.



Bound2One -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 5:43:09 AM)

I do understand where you're coming from.  I have had times when I was having my butt whipped by Master that I thought 'what the hell am I doing here?' and 'I shouldn't let this be happening to me'.  You know, those society rules.  I'm a female being beaten by my male.  That's supposed to be wrong.  lol  The thoughts come into my head and I squeeze them out very quickly.  I think it's social programming, and I just remind myself that I need to be exactly where I am and with my Master ... and my mind quiets down again.  It's not often these thoughts intrude - usually when he's trying something new and I'm a bit anxious about it. 



toservez -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 6:28:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

We've all had to overcome societal programming. Some have had an easier time of it than others. My best advice is to acknowledge the voice when you hear it, but mentally tell it to go away, then deliberately think the opposite thing. The more you do that, the more you will program new neural pathways. The more you think a thought, the more established the pathway and vice versa. It takes time, but you can really reprogram yourself. Just keep at it.

Master Fire



I enjoyed this post.

Losing the shackles of society expectations is a big hurdle.

I think what you are doing by being active in your local community should help a great deal as it re-enforces you are far from alone and not remotely damaged.

For me personally when I went through what you are going through I would often just step back and think “Am I happier doing this?” and “Am I really hurting anyone else by doing this?” The answers were always yes and no and this for me help right my mind going off track by feeding the paranoia caused by follow every one else of societal teaching.



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 2:11:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bound2One

I do understand where you're coming from.  I have had times when I was having my butt whipped by Master that I thought 'what the hell am I doing here?' and 'I shouldn't let this be happening to me'.  You know, those society rules.  I'm a female being beaten by my male.  That's supposed to be wrong.  lol  The thoughts come into my head and I squeeze them out very quickly.  I think it's social programming, and I just remind myself that I need to be exactly where I am and with my Master ... and my mind quiets down again.  It's not often these thoughts intrude - usually when he's trying something new and I'm a bit anxious about it. 


I think that is a good point to. Allot of submissive women go through a very similar thing because they where (and to some degree are still) discrimited against that, That women where actually slaves to large degree with no real way to support themselves, no right to vote, man society is stupid sometimes.... what is it a person can be smart but people are stupid.

So I can seee how this role could be felt as a betrayel to all these women have fought for. hehe... As if... Also other roles like women are supposed to be nice and sweet so a Domme might have some stuff there to work through. I was always told growing up that aman never hits a women... well what if the are asking you to. I wonder if BDSM was the social norm would it be as exciting or is the fact that allot of it does grind against societies rules that makes it so much fun. I notice that there is a good number of sub women who dont enjoy housework where there a good number of submen that do.

Anywho lotsa good stuff here. You guys and Ladies are giving me allot to thingk about.



slavetoobeyYou -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 6:09:17 PM)

I've had to deal with that for many years, at times swearing off D/s for periods of time, and keeping a limit on how far I would go.  I was believing the voices of society that argued within me that MasterFireMaam mentioned, thinking they were "me."  Now BDSM, with sites like this, is clearly embraced by many people, as opposed to 30 years ago when it was more underground.  I gradually accepted myself when I did it, and noticed afterwards "Oh there's those same old voices again saying 'I am bad, wrong, shouldn't have, there's something wrong with me, this is bad for me, and I never will again' --isn't that interesting."

I still have some of those voices, but I'm too much into my submission to listen to some of them and still get caught believing others. 

I just the other day saw that I have been very restricted in my sexuality by societal expectations--without my realizing it!  Heck with that!  It seems that there is a startling power and aliveness that comes from claiming and embracing my sexuality and my right to it whatever it is--that I imagine others have experienced and could comment on more than I.

I encourage you to pat yourself on the back for your exploration.  



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 6:13:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavetoobeyYou

I've had to deal with that for many years, at times swearing off D/s for periods of time, and keeping a limit on how far I would go.  I was believing the voices of society that argued within me that MasterFireMaam mentioned, thinking they were "me."  Now BDSM, with sites like this, is clearly embraced by many people, as opposed to 30 years ago when it was more underground.  I gradually accepted myself when I did it, and noticed afterwards "Oh there's those same old voices again saying 'I am bad, wrong, shouldn't have, there's something wrong with me, this is bad for me, and I never will again' --isn't that interesting."

I still have some of those voices, but I'm too much into my submission to listen to some of them and still get caught believing others. 

I just the other day saw that I have been very restricted in my sexuality by societal expectations--without my realizing it!  Heck with that!  It seems that there is a startling power and aliveness that comes from claiming and embracing my sexuality and my right to it whatever it is--that I imagine others have experienced and could comment on more than I.

I encourage you to pat yourself on the back for your exploration.  


Thanks bud;

Yest communities that are open and supportive are invaluable. Here in Dallas I attend a subbie meetup which helps allot and the general rule of the meeting is "Whats said here stays here" which allows for a little more free discourse among the members.



greenearth21 -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/6/2008 7:27:23 PM)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being the way you are.  Societal programming is bs in my opinion and I value being yourself than ...being who society wants you to be.  Hope you are enjoying yourself.



vampiresscammy -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/7/2008 9:13:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyfrillyboy

I am very new to the community and wonder if any other subs have gone through this and how the got passed it so they could just enjoy themselves.

I have recently started going to local munches and the local dungeon and I must say I have never felt so peaceful then when I am being submissive to a women. I love finally being able to talk openly about the things I enjoy with like minded individuals and have met some really great people who except me for who I am. The issue is when I am by myself I start to feel guilty for being who I am. I refuse to give into this BS that goes on in my head about what it is to be a "man" or whatever and was hoping for some feedback from others who may have overcome this internal stupid shame I sometimes feel. Logically I know its a bunch of hewey but feelings are feelings and must be dealt with or they will deal with you.




heyla and welcome from a rather newb herself, hehe, and glad you are enjoying yourself within your commuinity, I'd simply suggest spend as much time being with, talking to and having a mind set of that which makes you comfortable, when the societal bs tries to intrude do you best to nto allow it in, and rememebr we all have moments when those voices seem too loud, just remind yourself to smile or laugh and tell yourself  " i'm the way i want to be and society can kiss my booty if they don't like it"



WalterRego -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/7/2008 2:57:23 PM)

>>The issue is when I am by myself I start to feel guilty for being who I am. I refuse to give into this BS that goes on in my head about what it is to be a "man<<

Actually, I think you kind of are giving in to the BS that goes on in your head. You say you are feeling guilty and shame. So you are accepting the BS as  the standard  "correct" way of being and feeling failure or shame that you don't meet that standard.

This is not about being a "man" or not. Clearly you must know that over the centuries there have been and continue to be many "men" like yourself. So clearly this is a "way" of being a man.

Now all you have to do is decide whether you want to be a happy, fulfilled man, or an unhappy unfulfilled one.

If there is a problem here it is simply that, since you will not looking for partners or loved ones who also accept the standard view, you will have less sheer numbers of women to choose from or meet than those men selecting or looking from within the standard.

So.....you'd be better off forgetting the BS and get busy enjoying yourself and looking now.



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/7/2008 3:37:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

>>The issue is when I am by myself I start to feel guilty for being who I am. I refuse to give into this BS that goes on in my head about what it is to be a "man<<

Actually, I think you kind of are giving in to the BS that goes on in your head. You say you are feeling guilty and shame. So you are accepting the BS as  the standard  "correct" way of being and feeling failure or shame that you don't meet that standard.

This is not about being a "man" or not. Clearly you must know that over the centuries there have been and continue to be many "men" like yourself. So clearly this is a "way" of being a man.

Now all you have to do is decide whether you want to be a happy, fulfilled man, or an unhappy unfulfilled one.

If there is a problem here it is simply that, since you will not looking for partners or loved ones who also accept the standard view, you will have less sheer numbers of women to choose from or meet than those men selecting or looking from within the standard.

So.....you'd be better off forgetting the BS and get busy enjoying yourself and looking now.



I would not confuse expressing my issues with giving into them. Giving in is an action and even though I feel uneasy about something I still attend as many events as possible and talk to lots of people while I am there. I do kick myself in the butt to talk to as many people women, men, tops, bottoms as possible while attending these events so I don't think I am giving in :)

I really took notice of this line here and wanted to say something.

*************

If there is a problem here it is simply that, since you will not looking for partners or loved ones who also accept the standard view, you will have less sheer numbers of women to choose from or meet than those men selecting or looking from within the standard.

*************

Just about every woman I have dated has seen me dressed and many have tried to top me in some way or anouther. The issue has never been them but me and my inability to let go and let them. Also I continue to meet couples with whom the woman really had not interested in the scene but having discovered it have become very active.

From the people I have talked to it seems self confidence has allot to do with it. If I can get totally ok with it then more people are likely to be ok with it around me... at least the people I hang around.

Thanks for the input though it did remeind me of what I am doing right and what I need to continue to do.



DesFIP -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/8/2008 1:06:11 PM)

It is understandable that overcoming social norms is proving difficult. Do you journal about it? Because I think writing down all this would be helpful to you.



CaraCaeth -> RE: I have never felt so wonderful then when submitting but... (2/8/2008 1:09:51 PM)

First of all, if you are feeling guilty when you are by yourself, you must feel there’s something wrong with what you’re doing.  That’s what you have to attack first; its fine (and true) for people to say you need to be happy if what you’re doing is what you want.  But you’re absolutely right, logic has very little to do with your feelings.  So first off, you need to discover why you feel guilty.  Is it simply because it’s not the societal norm?  Is it because you feel like you’re letting someone (a father, brother, friend, etc) down by not living up to someone else’s expectations of you?  Is it because you feel like you are allowing yourself to be used?  There can be a lot of reasons why you may feel the way you do; each one has a different answer.  For example, when i first started with my Master, there were a lot of sexual activities that i had been thought were “dirty” or “common” or “disgusting.”  i had a really hard time getting over my mental blocks to accept that they made me and Him feel good (and there are some things i still do have difficulty with); the biggest help i had was sharing my feelings with my Master and having his reassurance that it was not “gross” or anything bad with feeling pleasure.  For me, i realized that my biggest block was that He would find me “disgusting” because i was enjoying things i had been taught were “disgusting”.  Once i realized that was my problem, and was reassured that He did not feel that way, i was able to get over some pretty big hurdles.



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