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Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 8:48:46 AM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
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Everyone moves into a relationship in a different manner with various speeds, that's a given. Each relationship is different in how quickly and solidly you trust and connect with your other.
So I think most sane people agree, build trust before you throw in your chips to a power exchange. Do you hold off all power exchange until you trust the other enough to dive in, or do you offer bits and pieces as trust grows? How do you tell the difference between trust, and merely comfort? IE, you're relatively sure you trust the other with your car and your cat, but not sure you're ready to trust in a deeper relationship? Is that really trust issue, or is it simply a lack of comfort with something in the relationship? Is that discomfort still valid then to keep things slow, or should one just try to plunge in and get over such a discomfort?

Ultimately however, my question to subs is this. If you're not ready to go steaming ahead at the paces your Dominant wants, how do you keep the breaks on at a pace you are comfortable with, without frustrating/angering the hell out of them? 'talking about it with them' is the obvious answer. What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'? Do you set time lines of when and what progression will be like, or just be firm about not moving to major exchange until you're comfortable with such a stage? Or do you just capitulate to the top's wants like a story book sub and go with whatever gets thrown at you?

This is rather rambling but some insight will help me down the road if you have any thoughts or comments on the questions above.

Post #: 1

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 9:05:06 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

Everyone moves into a relationship in a different manner with various speeds, that's a given. Each relationship is different in how quickly and solidly you trust and connect with your other.
So I think most sane people agree, build trust before you throw in your chips to a power exchange. Do you hold off all power exchange until you trust the other enough to dive in, or do you offer bits and pieces as trust grows? How do you tell the difference between trust, and merely comfort? IE, you're relatively sure you trust the other with your car and your cat, but not sure you're ready to trust in a deeper relationship? Is that really trust issue, or is it simply a lack of comfort with something in the relationship? Is that discomfort still valid then to keep things slow, or should one just try to plunge in and get over such a discomfort?

Ultimately however, my question to subs is this. If you're not ready to go steaming ahead at the paces your Dominant wants, how do you keep the breaks on at a pace you are comfortable with, without frustrating/angering the hell out of them? 'talking about it with them' is the obvious answer. What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'? Do you set time lines of when and what progression will be like, or just be firm about not moving to major exchange until you're comfortable with such a stage? Or do you just capitulate to the top's wants like a story book sub and go with whatever gets thrown at you?

This is rather rambling but some insight will help me down the road if you have any thoughts or comments on the questions above.

Oh, yipee, another thread where I can spew about how lucky I am, heh.

Seriously though m'Lord is taking the drivers seat on the power exchange, he's mentioned how much control he'd like in the near future and what he'd like even beyond that. He's the one that is taking control a bit at a time and he's doing it in a time frame that isn't any faster then my personal comfort would be.

Were it not already that case, I think that I'd be more comfortable reliquishing power a bit at a time anyway. To get used to one aspect of my life being controled by another takes acclimation and it just seems more natural to ease into it.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 2

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 9:24:31 AM

ForeverOwned

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Joined: 2/5/2008
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Why would a partner get mad at you if you wanted to take it slow?

That suggests to me a lack of respect and caring for the subs feelings, and that is never good. .

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 3

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 9:24:57 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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I think it comes down to compatibility and personalities.

I for one and my Master also believed not to do the establish a vanilla relationship and then go into a power exchange one as both of our beliefs and personalities were of I have no desire for vanilla why do we need to practice that. We were also not of the jump full in type either.

What we did is bring the power exchange aspects along with the other aspects of a relationship together as much as possible. We had many many many conversations that had very explicit communication of where we were in the relationship and what power was his now over me. We lived in different cities so that was in some ways a healthy barrier from either one of us rushing too fast as we could go up to ten days without us seeing each other. It might not have been the most romantic epic story but it worked for both of us.

In terms of if a submissive is being pushed faster then they want to go it depends on the type of pushing. I see two types, pushing out of selfish and inconsiderate reasons and pushing because the submissive needs it in order to walk down that path which can be difficult especially for first timers. I would like to think those two types are easily distinguished but I could be wrong. But obviously pushing out of selfishness is bad and the other can be good. The solution, as pretty much always, have frequent and direct communication.

I think you should only move to a stage if you are comfortable but it is not fair to the other if there is no sign of progression and there will always be some anxiety, at least there was for me, whenever going to the next stage. How you go about being comfortable or moving to the next stage is up to the individuals. It could be just a feeling. It could be giving a mutually acceptable date for the next stage so you can mentally prepare yourself. It can be taking consistent baby steps that smooth a transition and probably a ton of other ways.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 4

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 9:49:42 AM

ProlificNeeds

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Joined: 5/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ForeverOwned

Why would a partner get mad at you if you wanted to take it slow?

That suggests to me a lack of respect and caring for the subs feelings, and that is never good. .

That's my first reaction to being 'pushed' as well. But I wanted to see what other people think. I know for a fact I am very resistive to being pushed, I tend to push back in automatic response if I don't watch myself. Sort of like trying to pull a horse along instead of leading it along. One gets no results but a nervous horse, the other gets you places.

(in reply to ForeverOwned)

Post #: 5

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 11:06:34 AM

breatheasone

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'?

ProlificNeeds....I would say if the "D" type in question is "continually pushing" then he isn't all that understanding .....I would say if after several talks its still an issue its time to move on to someone that REALLY understands AND respects your concerns.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 6

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 11:52:54 AM

suessub

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/18/2008
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For me, as my relationship deepens into power exchange, it is slow. It is peeling back the layers of an onion, complete with tears. Both tears from fun pain, but also there have been tears of emotional distress. Most often, those tears come about as my Mistress's and my progression into this new type of trust get out of sync. We have to take a few steps back to the point we have in common. If we rush too fast, then we can lose sight of the common "safe place".

When we build the trust slowly and with deliberate action, we end up with a solid foundation. This can become a launchpad for many a wonderful exploration of limits. For there is always the center to return to when the waters get too rough and we feel we are losing our way.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 7

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 1:21:42 PM

batshalom

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Joined: 9/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'?

Continue balking, or if it is uncomfortable and undesirable, leave. Sometimes though, the balking is flirty and fun for both parties.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 8

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 2:09:22 PM

swtnsparkling

Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I've never been in a D/s relationship that the Dom ever pushed me to hurry up. I had one Dom who liked some thing very much but it made me quiet uncomforable so he allowed me to "fix it" when ever we were together so my focus wouldn't be on that particualr thing. He had never allowed anther sub to do this.

In just two weeks when he came upstairs he noticed my "fix it" was not there. He was very pleased and proud of me. Just letting me have some time and not pushing me I was able to overcome it on my own an realize it wasn't a big deal I had only made it that way in my own head.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 9

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 3:59:42 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
Do you hold off all power exchange until you trust the other enough to dive in, or do you offer bits and pieces as trust grows?

As long as you're talking about informed consent, there's really no other option. Now, a lot of people are willing to throw out the informed part and tend to get into problems later because of it.

quote:

How do you tell the difference between trust, and merely comfort?

Trust is the leap of faith. Comfort is being safely on the ground on the other side.

quote:

Is that really trust issue, or is it simply a lack of comfort with something in the relationship?

Both.

quote:

Is that discomfort still valid then to keep things slow, or should one just try to plunge in and get over such a discomfort?

What is there to gain by plunging?

Discomfort is always valid...the real question is whether it is reasonable.

quote:

how do you keep the breaks on at a pace you are comfortable with, without frustrating/angering the hell out of them?

You don't. It's not up to you to control their feelings or how they control their behavior because of them. Too many subs and slaves make themselves far too important by presuming that place in a relationship.

quote:

What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'?

You decide whether that situation is fulfilling you or not. He's showing you honestly how he is and how he will or will not respect you. You have to decide how to handle that.

quote:

Do you set time lines of when and what progression will be like, or just be firm about not moving to major exchange until you're comfortable with such a stage?

Life and timelines are generally a bad idea.

quote:

Or do you just capitulate to the top's wants like a story book sub and go with whatever gets thrown at you?

If that's what works for you.

I personally got tired of those types before high school ended. I'm not some priceless possession to be earned, but if you can't handle relationships as a mature adult without premature ejaculation and THEN getting pissy at me because I wouldn't put out, then you definitely aren't ready for the long term shit life is going to throw at you.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 2/6/2008 4:01:01 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 10

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/6/2008 4:30:50 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

Ultimately however, my question to subs is this. If you're not ready to go steaming ahead at the paces your Dominant wants, how do you keep the breaks on at a pace you are comfortable with, without frustrating/angering the hell out of them? 'talking about it with them' is the obvious answer. What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'? Do you set time lines of when and what progression will be like, or just be firm about not moving to major exchange until you're comfortable with such a stage? Or do you just capitulate to the top's wants like a story book sub and go with whatever gets thrown at you?

This is rather rambling but some insight will help me down the road if you have any thoughts or comments on the questions above.

I'd probably just be firm. If I got into a new relationship next month, I can't predict that on August the 3rd of 2010, I will definately be ready to merge our money or give him control. I probably would be. But I might not be. I would personally be a little concerned about someone pushing me to give them more control. I prefer to let things evolve naturally, be that fast or slow, and so choose relationships where that is possible.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 2/6/2008 4:33:21 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 11

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 1:18:43 PM

CaraCaeth

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Joined: 11/4/2007
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i had a similar situation with my Master. He does everything at full speed, and wants to do everything right now. i, on the other hand, am a much slower kind of person; and i’m still very new to the lifestyle as well. In order to please Him, i tried to keep up with Him until it was wearing me out. So finally i had to talk to Him about it. He told me that part of the reason He pushes me so hard is to help me find my limits, and realize that some of my limits are set by mental blocks that can be overcome. W/we basically agreed on a compromise (more in my favor actually); He would slow down for me, but i would realize that He wasn’t going to slow down so much that He stopped. And once i realized some of His logic behind pushing me so hard, it actually became a little easier for me to accept it at the same time.

_____________________________

property of Master Brenin
There can be a true grandeur in any degree of submissiveness, because it springs from loyalty to the laws and to an oath, and not from baseness of soul. - Simone Weil (1910-1943, French Philosopher, Mystic)

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 12

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 2:54:27 PM

sub4hire

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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For us we had a solid base of trust. So when power exchanged happened..physically anyway it was all at one time. The time of submission. Nothing prior.

Mentally well he weaseled his way in from day one..a little more each day.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 13

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 3:55:13 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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If he pushed faster than I could handle, and didn't care that his continued pushing was causing me to have less trust in him instead of more, then I would say goodbye.

The Man pushed me too fast in the very beginning. I told him he was making me uncomfortable going that fast. His response was to apologize and to tell me that if he did it again, I should tell him immediately. I think it happened one more time.

He wants me to trust him. He knew that trust wasn't all or nothing, it was earned bit by bit over time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 14

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 5:59:58 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
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From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

this topic poses an interesting question, however like most things, the answer depends on the individual. LA asked what is there to be gained by plunging...well, for some, nothing at all. for others, like myself, it was absolutely the best way to go.

i didn't have complete trust in my Master before we became Owner and slave...i hadn't known him for years (just a few months), didn't know about his skeletons, and to be honest i knew quite a few things about him that prevented me from trusting him in certain areas...i.e. i knew he didn't believe in limits of any sort for a slave, that he believed strongly in sexual sharing of his slaves, that he had a history of being very violent with women, in and out of the lifestyle, etc. before we became Master and slave, he was simply my friend and mentor. we had no relationship beyond that scope and never spoke of ever having such. very suddenly one day he decided he wanted me for himself, popped the question, i said yes without a moment's thought, and that was that. i went from being a newbie sub with no relationship D/s experience at all, to being an absolute, no limits 24/7 slave overnight.

from day one, he made things very difficult for me. there was never any easing into anything. instead it was shock after shock after shock...mentally and emotionally i lost it quite a few times. the first couple of years, i thought many times, what the heck did i get myself into? my life is going to be hell, no way i can bear this, etc. but this particular method of training and developing a M/s union turned out to be immensely beneficial....why? because i always knew and understood what was expected of me. i didn't fall into an overly comfortable and relaxed headspace...you know, where you think, he's mr. nice guy, he'd never do this or demand that...only to be horrified and whiplashed when he turns up the juice. instead, my eyes were forcibly wide open from the start, he exposed me to the darkest sides of this life, and when we both saw that i could bear it after all, "normal" life could begin. i mean think about it...would you rather slowly peel off the big band-aid bit by bit, so that you can feel the sting of each individual hair being yanked out? or just bite your lip, tear it off in one shot and be done with it?

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 15

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 6:38:59 PM

fluffyswitch

Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline

He is aware of my trust issues and the fact that this the first relationship i've had with someone where i'm fully comfortable being submissive. He also knows that i have qualms against going as deep into my submission as He would like us to eventually get. But He also knows that if i am to be truly comfortable and the relationship to really work He can't push it or i will leave, i've done it before. His words were that i would be comfortable doing it when the time came, and i am finding that the longer we are together the easier that it gets. He pushes but it's not overpowering. last night it was about food--i didn't want to eat and He knew it. i ended up eating regardless. we take things in small blocks and build from there.

_____________________________

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

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Post #: 16

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 8:52:35 PM

nwcutie102

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Joined: 1/13/2008
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i like the SLOW BURN..... mind connections, that go on for sometime.... then.... maybe the heart and body

(in reply to fluffyswitch)

Post #: 17

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/8/2008 11:27:40 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Ultimately however, my question to subs is this. If you're not ready to go steaming ahead at the paces your Dominant wants, how do you keep the breaks on at a pace you are comfortable with, without frustrating/angering the hell out of them? 'talking about it with them' is the obvious answer. What if merely expressing is not enough, and your top is understanding but still continually 'pushing'? Do you set time lines of when and what progression will be like, or just be firm about not moving to major exchange until you're comfortable with such a stage? Or do you just capitulate to the top's wants like a story book sub and go with whatever gets thrown at you?

I would not be with someone that was angry with me because I lacked trust when establishing a dynamic... if a dominant wanted me to trust them, and got mad and pushed me because of the way I felt inside, they would be telling me not to trust my intuition. Anyone that does this cannot be trusted. How did my Daddy gain my trust? By not expecting it as his right to have it, and knowing it was something that was MINE to give.. now that he has it, it is his to lose.

I would not trust someone to dominate me that I would not trust with the key to my apartment, or my checkcard... just me etc.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 18

RE: Trust before power exchange. - 2/10/2008 7:20:13 PM

LadyHathor

Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ForeverOwned

Why would a partner get mad at you if you wanted to take it slow?

That suggests to me a lack of respect and caring for the subs feelings, and that is never good. .

as an aside, the same should be said to subs who want to rush Dominants.

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

(in reply to ForeverOwned)

Post #: 19

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