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sub drop - 2/21/2004 9:28:37 AM   
NewSubGirl


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/12/2004
Status: offline
Greetings to All;

I have just recently had my very first D/s experiences with a wonderful Dominant. However, each time after our "scene/session/whatever you prefer to call them" I become very down, disconnected, and somewhat numb for days afterward. This is something I was completely unprepared for. He has explained that this is a very real phenomenon called sub drop. He has also been extremely patient with me.

Any suggestions on how to avoid or decrease the impact of sub-drop would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

holly
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: sub drop - 2/21/2004 1:00:32 PM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline
A topic of bottom drop was posted in the General BDSM forum:
http://www.collarme.com/forum/Bottom_Drop/m_1011/tm.htm

That forum discussion may help, as there were some posted links to other sources also.

(in reply to NewSubGirl)
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RE: sub drop - 2/21/2004 4:11:53 PM   
NewSubGirl


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/12/2004
Status: offline
Thank you, inyouagain, for your direction. I had not thought to look in the general BDSM forum.

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: sub drop - 11/8/2017 7:51:06 PM   
zara54


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/26/2016
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Yes it is sub drop. I have had it. It is like a high after and then for a few days after I feel low. No energy. And tired

(in reply to NewSubGirl)
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RE: sub drop - 11/8/2017 7:56:43 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
I know this sounds crazy but i actually find drinking gatorade helps.

(in reply to zara54)
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RE: sub drop - 11/9/2017 9:51:13 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14373
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
Sub Drop is essentially an endorphin hang over. I have found eating something like a small amount of chocolate immediately after the scene helps maintain blood sugar from the drop. Then lots of water and/or an electrolyte replacement like Gatorade or Powerade here and there.

_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to tamaka)
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RE: sub drop - 11/14/2017 3:57:47 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10538
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Sub Drop is essentially an endorphin hang over. I have found eating something like a small amount of chocolate immediately after the scene helps maintain blood sugar from the drop. Then lots of water and/or an electrolyte replacement like Gatorade or Powerade here and there.

.....and of course, chocolate is the answer. When does chocolate ever fail us ?

As for the OP, there are ways to let one down slowly and is often different for most everyone so disposed.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: sub drop - 11/29/2017 11:35:36 AM   
debadwhored


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/20/2017
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It is such a complex biochemical process that it would be good for us to understand. It is worth educating yourself on what happens as we believe our emotions, responses and thoughts as if they are fact. They are not, they are a response that can actually be changed, nurtured and developed.Hey, come to a workshop and we can discuss this :-)

Firstly it isn't even sub and or dom drop! Athletes, performers etc all potentially suffer a drop post performance etc

People are culturally great at the physical in life, you brush your teeth, you exercise (maybe), you eat, you shower. What do you do for your mental health, especially after play?

The hedonic system is complexly clever and responsive. So, the more we play and fuck, the LESS chemicals we provide naturally as we don't want to feel "flooded". We end up needing the stimulus to create the chemicals or we feel a drop long term too. Tolerance is an aspect of addiction and also in play. Our ability to take more or for longer does grow the more we actively "do". So the more we play and fuck, the more we chemically need and want to. The cure to addiction (long term antidote) is connection, Portugal is having incredible results with addicts that the world should take on, affecting the limbic system. Ironically for us, part of play and sex IS connection so this can create more need afterwards within after care.

Drop can happen to anyone who plays, top, bottom, everyone! it happens after great news for example, after feeling you've achieved something and after a run of a show or a competition.

A top playing a fair few times is potentially in greater need than a sub playing once for after care. It is about the amount and the intensity REGARDLESS of dominant or submissive actually. There will be extra chemicals involved with pain but that is another story. BOTH are in need of after care, even if we have grown so disconnected that we say no I don't and I am fine.

Again we also need to look at expectations of males and females et al, as often men are taught to get on with it and 'be a man' and girls are taught to depend or seek counsel. This is clearly a generic statement and there are exceptions.

Children and adults who have suffered trauma also have a very different response generally and after play and sex potentially. IF you're in a bad place and think play may help, it may, it may also make things a hell of a lot worse. So the key is communication. I fucking hate the word trigger, even as a professional. We warn, we say this may trigger, trigger warning. A can of baked beans may be a trigger, we can NOT be responsible for someone else's triggers, we can however be responsible for our own and learn and take steps and TALK. It is scary to talk, to share and to feel vulnerable yet at the end of the day, after care needs to change if an old experience of trauma has been re activated. Plus, if it is re activated PLEASE get professional help from someone who knows how to work with trauma. Not a general therapist, you actually have to watch talking about it as this alone can re traumatise. So after care may be worse if you discuss a scene.

So, the practicality. There are two aspects to after care, the physical and the emotional/psychological.

What can you do?

BEFORE YOU PLAY PRE MORTEM

We post mortem events so do it before you play. Look at every eventuality and plan for it in your head as the top or bottom. Clearly negotiate and talk but even in your own head look at every bizarre possibility. What if... When you do every what if, when and if it does happen, again your panic response is lessened so you manage and cope better. It really is that simple. You do it when you go on holiday, insurance, passport copy or number, credit cards and cash back ups, so do it for session or scene. The more you do it the less you'll need to, that's why experience makes us calmer and more assured and settled. Maybe even write what you want, like a birthing plan, as in the euphoria and drop you may not say. If you are in a bad place think about not playing, the impact, if this affects me, can I do tomorrow?

BEFORE PLAY, MANAGE EXPECTATIONS, NEGOTIATE

S/he doesn't know what you expect unless you ask or say. Yep, ask for what you want, expect and or need and listen in an open minded day to what the other wants or needs. Both ways, top and bottom. Negotiate and agree, but more importantly FOLLOW through. Disappointment is a killer. There is a loneliness potentially after play and loneliness causes a 14% increase in morbidity, so show care. It actually is not hard and if you can't be bothered, don't play! Negotiate, what is ok and what isn't, regret is a horrible feeling, a no or safe word or stop is ALWAYS ok. If you're alone arrange contact.

TALK

Our brains reward us for naming emotions(dopamine) It's like suitcase left unattended at an airport. We feel calmer when we know what is inside it. So take some time and talk about your feelings. Not simply talk but name. I feel sad, angry, sad, scared, NAME your feelings and have a good talk.

TALK CAVEAT

This does not apply however if it is a trauma re enactment. Talking can be a re traumatisation chemically, so ask a professional. One technique if potential trauma has occurred is to talk about it in the third person initially, to actively disassociate. As a journalist for example reporting on the scene. Physical boundaries after trauma are important. Not to engulf but maybe stroke an arm ( with permission) or hold hands or lean against someone gently.

THOUGHTS

We can ruminate after a session, about all sorts. Negative and self deprecating words and thoughts. God, what was I thinking, did I look awful, was I good enough, did s/he like it. Shame is something that needs sharing not hiding. Post regret can be an issue, a big one that can create problems. Take some time, talk to people you trust NOT on here. Work out your own opinion first as we are easily influenced at this point.
Switch patterns, look at the facts, what they said, not what you interpret that as! Look at your thinking and change track, how you ask. Interrupt the pattern. Be logical for a minute, do your times table, count (yep mum and dad were right when they said count to 10, neuroscience proves this) Do something creative, draw, colour, knit, build, paint. But come back to your thoughts and feelings each time, avoidance isn't an answer. Check words, if a negative word keeps popping up, ask would you take to someone you love like that? If not, what word would you use or how would you say it and practice saying that to yourself too.

BABY CARE

We are hard wired for warmth and care. A baby is soothed by being held and feeling warm. When a baby cries, we rock, sooth, sing. So recreate those things. A warm blanket that covers, maybe a little tighter than normal, a lavender cushion, a hot water bottle, stroking and soothing the hurts. Physically and psychologically. Sing or listen to music that enables you to feel. Classical music is actually better and again helps us revise, heal, you name it. If you can't stand it, listen to your music. Sing along, dance, move, rock. It all helps. Some gentle yoga can help too. Eye contact, it increases oxytocin. If you can sit opposite someone and look at them and catch their eye, then do so. If you don't have a person then a cat, dog, any animal also helps (no not fish) Our brains are incredible at creating new neural pathways regardless of age and we can learn, we have neuroplasticity so get eye contact going! A warm bath, we feel helps, add some candles for mood, some nice smells and you're away. Chamomile tea bags and some baking powder in a bath can also soothe physically too. Arnica and or Vitamin E tablets and or creams.

FOOD

Eat and drink well before!
After, the go to is chocolate and sweets which I get but actually this creates a false short term high. Plus it's sugar and it's inflammatory and not helpful although It has certain properties to help in the immediacy however.
We want foods that increase serotonin and dopamine for a drop. Those are starchy bits, potatoes, whole wheat pasta, cereal, and brown rice. Increasing your tryptophans (think turkey) which we need for serotonin. Root vegetables are great too. Tyrosine is also needed and that's an amino acid, and can be found in dairy products, almonds, avocados, bananas and pumpkin and sesame seeds. So this takes planning, buy in advance, pre prepare, cook for each other even or with a friend.
Vitamin B6, Omega 3s can also help. Green veg, and leaves (preferably raw), cold water fish, salmon, mackrel, whole grain cereals an breads. Yep, bread is GOOD for you.
Avoid alcohol and drugs afterwards, preferably before or the drop experience is chemically two fold, or plan for it.

JOURNAL

Writing something helps us sort it. We learn better when we write even. i don't mean type either, I mean physically write it down. Watch the thought section above, read it and apply it to writing too. Using the opposable thumb takes all parts of the brain which relaxes us (hence write not type) that's why colouring, sewing etc works)

ACTIVITY

Yep, staying busy can help but again its a balance between avoidance and active. Watching a film, listening to something, doing something with your hands, it can all help. Shake it out, like a dog ;-)

GUILT

Hurting someone or accepting pain can make us feel guilty and ashamed. The only antidote to shame is to share, get a fellow perv to talk to who understands and practices the same. The last thing you need is "you did what". If you suffer from low self esteem or self confidence go see someone :-)

DO FUCK ALL

It is an option. When I'm sick I hate anyone anyone near me. Sometimes nothing is the best after care. Again, no one is wrong or right about this, it's about what's right for you.

Feel free to add any x

The latest research for anti depressants is opiate based with the FDA. Opiates are produced in the brain when we have close intimate contact. So get close after too X

If drop carries on it isn't drop. Depression, stress, you name it affects us all so see a professional.

Debs x

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: sub drop - 11/30/2017 8:44:16 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
I do feel this sub drop in all situations, not just in bdsm or sex. Like, after I finish a marathon and I feel damn fucking high and happy and then 24 hours, I am depress for no fucking reason. I think I get this from most exercise routine. There is like this drug-like feel good after, similar to me in sub space. And then super crash and depressed after. Which is why in a way, exercise is suppose to be good for you, but for me, it's actually very toxic. But of course the happy endorphins I get immediately after finishing a tough work out keeps me doing it. And exercise is a necessity of life.

Like at work, when I achieve something very happy which also makes me high and happy for 24 hours then I am depressed for no fucking reason after.

It's like happy endorphins overload and then when it leaves you, super crash.

But the beauty of D/S is, your dominant can be very comforting if he is damn good at aftercare! He definitely can play a role in easing the crash. I definitely enjoy loving cuddle sessions after.

(in reply to debadwhored)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: sub drop - 11/30/2017 11:43:51 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32561
Status: offline
Very rare that I ever say this about anybody's first post, but this was pretty darn good.
quote:

ORIGINAL: debadwhored

It is such a complex biochemical process that it would be good for us to understand. It is worth educating yourself on what happens as we believe our emotions, responses and thoughts as if they are fact. They are not, they are a response that can actually be changed, nurtured and developed.Hey, come to a workshop and we can discuss this :-)

Firstly it isn't even sub and or dom drop! Athletes, performers etc all potentially suffer a drop post performance etc

This was actually how I started learning about this. Not from personal athletic performance. <Little joke, there.> Rather from the relationship that we believe that both 'space' relates to 'runner's high' and 'drop' relates to 'athletic drop'. The theory goes that the same type of endorphins in the brain that athletes experience due to exercise/endurance levels would be the same as those participating in BDSM would have during TTTWD.

quote:

People are culturally great at the physical in life, you brush your teeth, you exercise (maybe), you eat, you shower. What do you do for your mental health, especially after play?

The hedonic system is complexly clever and responsive. So, the more we play and fuck, the LESS chemicals we provide naturally as we don't want to feel "flooded". We end up needing the stimulus to create the chemicals or we feel a drop long term too. Tolerance is an aspect of addiction and also in play. Our ability to take more or for longer does grow the more we actively "do". So the more we play and fuck, the more we chemically need and want to. The cure to addiction (long term antidote) is connection, Portugal is having incredible results with addicts that the world should take on, affecting the limbic system. Ironically for us, part of play and sex IS connection so this can create more need afterwards within after care.

I don't suppose you have a link to the research? It would be an interesting read.

quote:

Drop can happen to anyone who plays, top, bottom, everyone! it happens after great news for example, after feeling you've achieved something and after a run of a show or a competition.

Again, I agree with this. Anything that's linked to an increase in adrenaline. I'm also of the mind that it isn't just about play. A good example of this is what people tend to call "con drop". Basically, folks get real hyped up going to a big BDSM-type convention, they are excited as heck to be around other kinksters for three or four days, then come home and wonder why they are feeling like they are experiencing 'drop' by the following Monday or Tuesday. Same premise, really.

quote:

A top playing a fair few times is potentially in greater need than a sub playing once for after care. It is about the amount and the intensity REGARDLESS of dominant or submissive actually. There will be extra chemicals involved with pain but that is another story. BOTH are in need of after care, even if we have grown so disconnected that we say no I don't and I am fine.

While you mention this differently later, I do disagree with the 'everybody needs aftercare' statement. Some people want nothing to do with the aftercare business with the exception of getting re hydrated and letting their body get back to normal temperature. I'm a top/D-type and there is some play that my whole 'aftercare' preference is a Diet Pepsi and a cigarette. I know a few bottoms that sincerely prefer being left the heck alone after play because they are doing their version of processing.

quote:

Again we also need to look at expectations of males and females et al, as often men are taught to get on with it and 'be a man' and girls are taught to depend or seek counsel. This is clearly a generic statement and there are exceptions.

Just personal experience. I see way fewer male bottoms than female ones do drop. I also see more women than men that can experience drop a day or more later. I've never figured out why this is but it seems to be the case.

quote:

Children and adults who have suffered trauma also have a very different response generally and after play and sex potentially. IF you're in a bad place and think play may help, it may, it may also make things a hell of a lot worse. So the key is communication. I fucking hate the word trigger, even as a professional. We warn, we say this may trigger, trigger warning. A can of baked beans may be a trigger, we can NOT be responsible for someone else's triggers, we can however be responsible for our own and learn and take steps and TALK. It is scary to talk, to share and to feel vulnerable yet at the end of the day, after care needs to change if an old experience of trauma has been re activated. Plus, if it is re activated PLEASE get professional help from someone who knows how to work with trauma. Not a general therapist, you actually have to watch talking about it as this alone can re traumatise. So after care may be worse if you discuss a scene.

While I agree that no one can be responsible for another person's triggers if they don't know them, it's my opinion that things that a person knows will trigger them should be discussed before play. Nobody wants to stumble into a bad area by accident.

quote:

So, the practicality. There are two aspects to after care, the physical and the emotional/psychological.

I'm just trimming this part, as I don't really have comments on it. The suggestions are things that people can try and see what works for them.

The only thing I'll add is this. The coolest thing that I've heard of was something called "the single submissive's survival kit." The idea behind it was to have a box of things that work for that person when they experience next day drop after a night out of casual play. (Not everybody who plays is partnered.) Special bath lotions, protein snacks, sweets, or whatever. I thought it was a great idea.

quote:

If drop carries on it isn't drop. Depression, stress, you name it affects us all so see a professional.

Debs x

Thank you so much for saying this! Kinky people have a tendency to blame 'drop' on everything, rather than realizing they are still people and people have emotions. A person feeling sad or irritable two or three weeks after they went out and played shouldn't be blaming it on drop. The swing in brain chemistry won't still be going that long.

Nice piece. I enjoyed it.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to debadwhored)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: sub drop - 11/30/2017 6:48:33 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
About before play, just as you wouldn’t run a marathon on no sleep or after skipping meals, same here. Eat well but sufficiently before play that you aren’t swimming on a full stomach (so to speak). The better shape you are in prior, the less recovery you should need.



_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 11
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