RE: slave vs. submissive

RE: slave vs. submissive (Full Version)

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Soulhuntre -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 10:16:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily That's about the weirdest thing I've ever heard. It is FAR from the wiedrest thing I have ever heard. For instance there are whole websites dedicated to people who think the government has implanted alien technology in their head to keep them unemployed :)

Fawne -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 11:14:58 AM)
no new comment: GREAT THREAD!!! Wish it were required reading. Thanks to all [:)]

daddysprop247 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 12:48:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Evanesce Actually, the sub/slave thing is really easy to decipher. A slave is property. Submissive is a personality trait. Denise the Kaptin's wench agree 100% with the above. you are a slave when you are owned, period. and being a submissive is one's personality, one's way of responding to the world around them, and anyone with such a personality, whether they live a D/s lifestyle or not, is a submissive imo. likewise, anyone who does not have such a personality (whether they follow D/s or not) is not a submissive.

imtempting -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 5:27:43 PM)
Its concensual so its not slavery its submission. Slavery is forced upon someone not choosen.

SirSix72 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 5:35:15 PM)
Just a note: This is belladonna82, Master has permited me to comment under His name. Submissive=a personality..but when used as a noun it is person in the BDSM lifestyle who still holds to some vanilla ties.she is able to use safe words and are able to have some input in the way her life is run. Slave=is a person who gives up the rights normal women hold on to.we do not use safe words or control anything unless our Master gives us permission to do so.she owns nothing...just is allowed to use things when her Master permits.she is property...normaly property that the Master does hold dear. in my opinion a slave is like gem...when you first find it..its rough around the edges..needs to be cleaned up a little but once you take the time to polish it,it can be most of your most priceless pieces of property,but it is property! again i say this is my own opinion...you may or may not agree....but this is how i have been trained and my training will not change because someone disagrees.But ...to each their own!

SirSix72 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 5:43:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imtempting Its concensual so its not slavery its submission. Slavery is forced upon someone not choosen. Ok let me get this right so I went out and captured my kajarii and forced her into slavery,,,,,,,,,Not to forget I did it while riding on tarn,[sm=tongue.gif] No she begged for me to collar and and I went to great lengths to make sure she was well educated in the principles of the lifestyle she was begging for,,then I made the decision to enslave her,,,she merely showed me that she was a dedicated individual and honored her word beyond any scene or moral code of vanilla thinking,,,,,she lives by honoring her word to me that I own her,,,body, mind and soul,,,she lives for Me ,,,this is called concensual slavery,,,this isnt forced,,,,she granted me no gift or required that i give her anything,,, Master Six

imtempting -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 5:47:12 PM)
You call it concensual slavery, I call it being deeply involved into submission. Being owned. I think Emerald slave may of said it.. Its just a title. Nothing more,nothing less.

JustaTop -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 5:55:22 PM)
quote: No she begged for me to collar and and I went to great lengths to make sure she was well educated in the principles of the lifestyle she was begging for,,then I made the decision to enslave her,,,she merely showed me that she was a dedicated individual and honored her word beyond any scene or moral code of vanilla thinking,,,,,she lives by honoring her word to me that I own her,,,body, mind and soul,,,she lives for Me ,,,this is called concensual slavery,,,this isnt forced,,,,she granted me no gift or required that i give her anything,,, You obviously fill a need in her. And that need, and how you complete it, IS why she stays with you. Let me clue you to something here. This happens in places and dynamics that have NOTHING to do with any "lifestyle." It's a natural thing for some,that is based on pleasure and devotion. If you subtracted any of these elements-how long do you think she would stay with you?[;)]

SirSix72 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 7:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imtempting You call it concensual slavery, I call it being deeply involved into submission. Being owned. I think Emerald slave may of said it.. Its just a title. Nothing more,nothing less. ok so you are saying that there is no clear defined definition between a slave and a submissive. It is merely a title? moving on You obviously fill a need in her. And that need, and how you complete it, IS why she stays with you. Let me clue you to something here. This happens in places and dynamics that have NOTHING to do with any "lifestyle." It's a natural thing for some,that is based on pleasure and devotion. If you subtracted any of these elements-how long do you think she would stay with you?[;)] I can take away any of these things and she still remains property no matter if there is pleasure involved or not. Maybe you got your wires crossed some where,,,,,she lives by honor unlike many others that have merely passed through this lifestyle and if she didnt stay with me because I choose to take something away she may enjoy and she threatens to walk,,, then this has become a bottom topping situation,,,lets not forget im NOT here for her pleasure she is here for mine,,,if ya got any doubt email her ,,,ask her,,,ask any slave that has been around for more than a couple of years in the lifestyle. My decision is final she has no say,,,I do listen to what her immediate wants are and if "I" decide they need to be met then I meet them in the time frame "I" choose. I do not fear a slave running because wont conform to what she expects me to do for her or meet any of her wants. Notice I said wants not needs,,,,,, Pleasure is a want not a need,,,,devotion is required to "Me" not to her, therefomaking devotion a need not a want,,,,,, she stays no matter out of her "devotion" to Me. so what you say is regardless to me,,,to each his own but if you "choose" to conform then this is your decision,,,,i have no need to over romanticize this life I "live/in r/t" not over the interent. Master Six

IronBear -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 7:24:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustaTop quote: No she begged for me to collar and and I went to great lengths to make sure she was well educated in the principles of the lifestyle she was begging for,,then I made the decision to enslave her,,,she merely showed me that she was a dedicated individual and honored her word beyond any scene or moral code of vanilla thinking,,,,,she lives by honoring her word to me that I own her,,,body, mind and soul,,,she lives for Me ,,,this is called concensual slavery,,,this isnt forced,,,,she granted me no gift or required that i give her anything,,, You obviously fill a need in her. And that need, and how you complete it, IS why she stays with you. Let me clue you to something here. This happens in places and dynamics that have NOTHING to do with any "lifestyle." It's a natural thing for some,that is based on pleasure and devotion. If you subtracted any of these elements-how long do you think she would stay with you?[;)] Of course we are what we see ourselves to be. However there is a difference between a BDSM, D/s and M/s slave and a Gorean one too. We just see things differently.. Another lable? perhaps but for those who it works for, it works well.

imtempting -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 9:09:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirSix72 ok so you are saying that there is no clear defined definition between a slave and a submissive. It is merely a title? moving on Its only a title. Some female dominants like to be called a Goddess yet we know their not a good. Its just a title.

SirSix72 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/7/2005 9:26:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustaTop quote: You obviously fill a need in her. And that need, and how you complete it, IS why she stays with you. Let me clue you to something here. This happens in places and dynamics that have NOTHING to do with any "lifestyle." It's a natural thing for some,that is based on pleasure and devotion. If you subtracted any of these elements-how long do you think she would stay with you?[;)] :NOTE: this is SirSix72's slave...belladonna82 Master could strip away all i have,and i would still bow before Master.Master lets me use or have what Master decides i should have.Master doesnt have to be devoted to me...He doesnt have to sweep me off my feet....i bow to serve because Master is in my eyes...a honorable Master.So,please do not assume i would leave Master just because he withheld something from me.Master has had me do without before...yet i am still here.When i bowed before him begging to be his slave and for my rights to no longer be mine i knew that doing so...the only way i would or could ever leave was if Master ordered me to...or Master died...and as of yet...that hasnt happened.But to each their own...everyone has their own opinions of what works for that individual person or slave.Just please dont put in any more of your comments any idea that i would leave Master.......i can guarantee....this slave will never dishonor Master....or herself that way!

IronBear -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 1:40:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirSix72 :NOTE: this is SirSix72's slave...belladonna82 Master could strip away all i have,and i would still bow before Master.Master lets me use or have what Master decides i should have.Master doesnt have to be devoted to me...He doesnt have to sweep me off my feet....i bow to serve because Master is in my eyes...a honorable Master.So,please do not assume i would leave Master just because he withheld something from me.Master has had me do without before...yet i am still here.When i bowed before him begging to be his slave and for my rights to no longer be mine i knew that doing so...the only way i would or could ever leave was if Master ordered me to...or Master died...and as of yet...that hasnt happened.But to each their own...everyone has their own opinions of what works for that individual person or slave.Just please dont put in any more of your comments any idea that i would leave Master.......i can guarantee....this slave will never dishonor Master....or herself that way! Brava!! Spoken as I would expect a kajira to speak. My congratulations Sir for a well trained girl, it says much of your training and Mastery.

SirSix72 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 1:42:34 AM)
Thank you very much Iron Bear,,,I will be sure to give bella a pat on the head for you as well Master Six

Mercnbeth -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 7:28:30 AM)
quote: You call it concensual slavery, I call it being deeply involved into submission. Tempting, The core definition of the words consensual and slavery are mutually exclusive by their very nature. But for identification purposes slave is the appropriate label for beth. The Orwellian method of language would be simpler. There would be submissive, good submissive, plus good submissive, and double plus good submissive. Perhaps that would satisfy the linguistics among us. I too feel that the calling people in the lifestyle "slave" is a disservice and denigrates the historical atrocities of slavery. But other than the way she became a slave, through a decision she made, beth lives under the definition under my ownership. I wish there were another word other than slave. Of course there is kajira, but I never knew if I was pronouncing it correctly and it never felt easy coming out of my mouth. Regarding assigning titles or labels; of course that's what everyone has. Your "imtempting" was self assigned, and is your label or title whether you're tempting or not. Same with emerald; I doubt she is green. At least with slave, the title was assigned by someone else. It implies someone else's definition. It's credibility lies in the credibility of the labeling person. This idea is the foundation of why I don't believe you can be a slave without a Master or a Master without a slave. Solo, it's a meaningless title or label. In a relationship, the definition is clear. It may only be a group of one, but it's all that matters to me.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 7:53:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Tempting, The core definition of the words consensual and slavery are mutually exclusive by their very nature. But for identification purposes slave is the appropriate label for beth. The Orwellian method of language would be simpler. There would be submissive, good submissive, plus good submissive, and double plus good submissive. Perhaps that would satisfy the linguistics among us. I too feel that the calling people in the lifestyle "slave" is a disservice and denigrates the historical atrocities of slavery. But other than the way she became a slave, through a decision she made, beth lives under the definition under my ownership. I wish there were another word other than slave. Of course there is kajira, but I never knew if I was pronouncing it correctly and it never felt easy coming out of my mouth. Just as a counterpart, we use "servant" and "bound servant". A servant comes to us to serve for a while, or perhaps to train. A "bound servant" makes a commitment to our family to serve any need that we have, for as long as the arrangement is mutually beneficial. If they wear "acolyte", "novitiate", "priest", or "healer" in front of that, they've been specially trained in our esoterics, as well as their servant training. As I've said in another post, we are looking for different things than most, so we accept the possibility that the teaching process that we use might end up growing a bound servant who develops into something else that is more teacher than servant --or not. However, we, also, had difficulty with the semantic ambiguity. Submissive doesn't -have- a form as a noun in the English language. It is an adjective....and slavery is impressed upon someone without their consent, so that didn't fit us either. So this is what -we- came up with to deal with the desire to be completely honest about what we are looking for, and shaping towards. Lady Zephyr

Mercnbeth -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 8:27:52 AM)
quote: So this is what -we- came up with to deal with the desire to be completely honest about what we are looking for, and shaping towards. Lady Zephyr, Your example is perfectly on point. It doesn't matter if your relaitionhip is defined by one person, or in a group. As long as the word definitions are the same for eveyone they work. Thank you for offering insight and opening up your personal life.

Belladonna82 -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 9:49:58 AM)
:) Well, thank you Master IRON BEAR.Master told me of Your kind words to me.i try to always do as Master would have me do.Thank You again Sir Forever in servitude, bella

RavenofPK -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 10:06:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imtempting You call it concensual slavery, I call it being deeply involved into submission. Being owned. I think Emerald slave may of said it.. Its just a title. Nothing more,nothing less. And emerald is incorrect. It is a definition of the core self, not to be made light of, or flicked on and off like some switch. All or nothing. Nothing else is acceptable.

fyreredsub -> RE: slave vs. submissive (10/8/2005 10:54:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: arrow On this site, we who are not Dominants must identify ourselves as either submissives or slaves, so obviously there is a difference. i'm interested in what you think the difference is...i have my own thoughts on what those differences are, but frequently i see the designations used interchangeably here and everywhere. Made me curious. Similarly, why is there not a differentiation here between Dominants and Masters? Should there be? Are they indeed one and the same to you? Your thoughts, please! Sorry if this question is redunant - i looked for a similar posting, but couldn't find one. arrow In the general context of things(i'm sure this has been posted over and over),IMO, a submissive vs slave scenario... a slave is owned and has a Master. A slave has no choices. Whereas a submissive does. A submissive has a Dominant to control them.Limits are negotiated. To throw one more kink into the context a Top has a bottom but that is more of a sexual type philosophy,IMO,scenes agreed upon in this situation as well.

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