RE: Grief (Full Version)

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CuriousLord -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 9:47:41 AM)

So many different ways to deal, not only from person to person, but for each person.

I deal with mine alone as much as I can.  When it overflows, I get help.

People around me tend to look up to me.  If I got down, it'd have quite a backlash on others; in a way, I see people around me as subs to keep secure, so it's in my own interests not to hurt them.




AS11 -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:00:01 AM)

Loveisallyouneed I’ve known grief, the death of one more important to me then my very life itself; I’ve seen my world shatter into tiny pieces, I’ve known a love so profound my soul ached when it was relegated to memory alone. I know the denial blame and emptiness and I know there comes a time to let it go, set it aside and pursue life’s living again.
Good luck and be well within yourself.




DesFIP -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:02:21 AM)

I'm saying that it is lying to use someone else to help you heal without telling them about it.

I've done grief work because I got stuck in my grief and needed professional help to move on.

And I don't know any parent of a handicapped child who hasn't been angry at times at the unfairness of it. There's quite a difference between being angry and being angry at someone. My oldest has a rare and severe mood disorder. Have I been angry about the changes made in my life because of her disease? Certainly. Do I blame her for this and take out my anger or despair at her? Certainly not. Did I feel the same when my mother was dying slowly of cancer? Of course.

And if you are so stuck in your denial these many years later that you still aren't even able to acknowledge your feelings in private or to an anonymous forum, then you need professional help. Throwing all this on some nice woman who has no idea what she's in for is unfair and wrong. Look Bob, you've gone on and on in your last profile about the unfairness of it, and representing yourself as some kind of a saint simply because you've lost loved ones. You aren't. I lost one child and have another with a life long illness and I know I'm not a saint. I've railed against it, felt guilty because of railing and have come to accept that these are normal human responses to such situations. And because I can accept my negative emotions, I have helped others cope. Presenting yourself as some superhuman saint who doesn't have any negative emotions doesn't help you, and it hurts others who might make the mistake of coming to you for aid.  Being honest, telling someone that sometimes you have to lock the door and scream or throw pillows and then get up, unlock the door and keep on coping, is being helpful. Lying to yourself means you lie to others and you set them up for failure.

Besides you've been doing it this way for how long now? At least two years here and I don't know how many years prior. And it isn't working for you. If it did, you would have met someone by now. Instead you qualify for Einstein's definition of insanity "Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result".

If you keep doing the same thing and keep not getting what you need, it's your fault, no one else's. Please don't twist my words to mean it was your fault that your wife had cancer and your son was autistic because I am not saying that. But how you've chosen to deal with it while demanding other people be saintly and administer to your needs while not having any energy to deal with their needs, and therefore never finding anyone is your fault. Call Hospice, find a grief therapist, do the hard work. You won't be able to call yourself a saint anymore but you will be able to be a functioning person in your interpersonal interactions and that's a hell of a lot more satisfying.




toservez -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:07:05 AM)

Your words are very clear and state that only the love of another can restore a person’s self worth and confidence. As Celeste and I both pointed out that is just flat out wrong. If a person needs another’s love for those things then at best they have a dependent personality issue and are getting values based on if they are in a relationship or not.

Maybe you should look at it from the other end. Imagine someone going to you, hey there is no way you have any self worth or confidence if another does not love you. It is just an absurd statement. Sure, it sounds good in the brain but basically you are writing that a person will be damaged goods until they are loved by another.

Can another person help and love bring happiness and those feelings, of course, but do not confuse the path of symptoms with some instruction manual as in one true way.




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:09:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

Again, for me, i simply do not have the vocabulary to articulate a true description of healing from grief.  Not to mention it varies so drastically from person to person. :)


I very much appreciate you making the effort nonetheless.

For me, the sign that told me I was ready was when I started hoping for love again. Early in the process my mother had told me I'd be dating again. I laughed. The thought of dating was ludicrous. In my mind I'd had the love I was meant to have in this life and that was that.

But a very dear friend showed me I still had love to give, and that in giving love there was a good chance I'd receive it as well.

And it was so true of me that I found myself hoping to love and be loved again.

Grief is the loss of hope, or so it seems to me.




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:12:49 AM)

i deal with grief in a simple way.... i look at wenchies chest and immediately am happy....cause i can touch it too [:D]




sirsholly -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:14:01 AM)

grief can cause a wall of isolation to be built which very little, even the love of others, can get through. No one was able to help when i was grieving. I had to work it out on my own...in my own way and my own time. Time DOES heal, but healing takes time.




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:15:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

agreed.  i have run across some people like that in my job.  i feel a great deal of pity, as they no longer see any other way of being or living.


The first great love since my wife ended because of this. I could not get through her walls.

And the sense of abandonment/isolation wasn't/isn't healthy for me.

As she was determined to repeat her cycles, I had to let go.

More grief. More of a sense of inadequacy that my love wasn't enough to help the one I love.

It is a humbling experience.




sweetwenchie -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:21:50 AM)

Yet taking the blame onto yourself is a waste of your energy.  No one else can bring another out of their grief, it is something internally that they have to overcome. 

Sometimes i think there are certain people that come to view their grief as a security blanket, and simply do not know how to let go of that blanket, no matter how much it drags them down.




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:23:50 AM)

poke.....POKE......PINCH!

there...grief over....




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:24:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

(BTW, weren't you angry at the disease that took your wife?)



When I get angry it is because I believe someone is being maliciously cruel. Getting angry with cancer is like getting angry with dirt: it does what it does and it has no choice about it.

quote:


However, the final step is THRIVING, when you take what you've learned as you grew through the process and use it to help others. We all grieve differently, and we all get through it differently.

One can grieve over many different kinds of losses. My most recent grief has been the loss of my visual acuity and the loss of a limb.


My sympathy for your losses. Indeed each of us faces a unique loss, for that loss touches us as it touches no other.




sirsholly -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:27:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

Sometimes i think there are certain people that come to view their grief as a security blanket, and simply do not know how to let go of that blanket, no matter how much it drags them down.


Or used as an excuse/reason for giving up...




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:28:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AS11

Loveisallyouneed I’ve known grief, the death of one more important to me then my very life itself; I’ve seen my world shatter into tiny pieces, I’ve known a love so profound my soul ached when it was relegated to memory alone. I know the denial blame and emptiness and I know there comes a time to let it go, set it aside and pursue life’s living again.
Good luck and be well within yourself.


[:)]

Thank you




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:43:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Your words are very clear and state that only the love of another can restore a person’s self worth and confidence. As Celeste and I both pointed out that is just flat out wrong. If a person needs another’s love for those things then at best they have a dependent personality issue and are getting values based on if they are in a relationship or not.



As we are social creatures by our very nature, I believe the above can be applied to all of us.

No one is born with a sense of self-worth or self-confidence. And if they were, they'd quickly be disabused of the notion after being left in dirty diapers for 30 minutes.

Thus it stands to reason our sense of self-worth and self-confidence is the result of our interactions with others, i.e relationships.

Furthermore, it stands to reason that the loss of the most significant of relationships impacts our sense of self-worth and self-confidence. We grieve.

The pop-belief that we are all islands and shouldn't actually need anybody is a poorly constructed myth that ignores ohhh about 1 million years of human development which is synonomous with human social development, for no baby abandoned at birth has yet to survive.

quote:


Maybe you should look at it from the other end. Imagine someone going to you, hey there is no way you have any self worth or confidence if another does not love you. It is just an absurd statement. Sure, it sounds good in the brain but basically you are writing that a person will be damaged goods until they are loved by another.


Yes, I am.

And I defy anyone who has gone through such a loss to deny feeling a wonderful sense of release when they found themselves once again in a loving relationship.




mzbehavin -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:46:42 AM)

I tend to post and run, so if i miss responses i apologize in advance. However, once i was given an analogy that has helped me alot.
Think of your emotions as weather passing over, not the sum of the earth (yourself). Sometimes it rains, sometimes its sunny. Everything has its season. We are not our grief, its a cloud that will come and go many times.
I wish you well on your journey and to address the main question.

To put your healing on the shoulders of another relationship is, while in my opinion, a very effective way to overcome sorrow and re-ignite hope again. The reality is... You will have healthier relationships and a better quality of life if you learn to ~
Love Yourself first.~
Its all within us. There is nothing 'out there' that we dont have within ourselves. May peace fill your heart. Love always finds a way.




Jeffff -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:51:02 AM)

Your premise blows. IYou are telling me that I can't feel good about my self or recover from greif till some one new loves me? Or till I love someone new?
That is a huge pile of shit

Jeff




sirsholly -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:51:34 AM)





"When I get angry it is because I believe someone is being maliciously cruel. Getting angry with cancer is like getting angry with dirt: it does what it does and it has no choice about it."


When i lost my late husband the anger i felt was unreal. I was angry at the illness that took him, angry at him for leaving, angry at God, angry at myself for being angry.........
When i first ventured out after about 2 weeks of isolation i saw a catering company advertising for gratuation parties. My reaction was total rage!! Didn't they know he was gone? Didn't they care? I saw a grief counslor soon after that and was very suprised to find that what i thought was insanity was, in fact rather normal.






Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:53:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

Yet taking the blame onto yourself is a waste of your energy.  No one else can bring another out of their grief, it is something internally that they have to overcome. 

Sometimes i think there are certain people that come to view their grief as a security blanket, and simply do not know how to let go of that blanket, no matter how much it drags them down.


Ah, but you see, this is the catch-22.

With self-confidence and self-worth I believe in love, and I believe in the purseness of my love, and its healing abilities.

Yes, the injury is deep, but if I am (for lack of better words) good enough then I can pull her out of her cycle of self-destruction...

True, I could not use this to fight cancer, but when someone I love won't let go of that which is destroying her (name your self-destructive addiction of choice), I can't just shrug my shoulders and say "I did my best" without a feeling of grief that I gave up too soon.

And as there are no concrete markers as to when is "too soon" and when is "too late", I am left with the uncertainty.

My experience has been there is no formula that can help me with this. No crystal ball to say what the outcome will be.

And every submissive and slave I've known has issues like these: difficulties with trust. Had my wife not been able to get over hers we'd not have enjoyed the years we had together.




KatyLied -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 10:59:04 AM)

quote:

and every submissive and slave I've known has issues like these: difficulties with trust.


Sounds like you are picking dysfunctional people.




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: Grief (2/20/2008 11:00:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mzbehavin

~ Love Yourself first.~


Thank you for a thoughtful contribution.

As for the quote, I've found loving myself is not enough for me to measure my value.

Anyone can love himself, egotists and selfish people do it a great deal. But that does not measure the worth of the soul that inhabits the body.

It is when I am loved ... when my love for another has such value I am loved in return, and by the quality of that love do I know I have value and worth ...

... in the eyes of another.

Therein lays the challenge for a Great Heart: not how much he loves himself, but how much he is loved by others for who he is.




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