Loveisallyouneed
Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
quote:
(on edit: keep in mind this is a loving relationship we're speaking of, not a casual fling. In this relationship, love, trust, committment, faith are all integral parts, they all play a part in deciding when to stay and when to quit).
You can't make a decision to stay with someone who wants to end the relationship.
That is an element of control one does not have... if you feel love for someone, when it doesn't work, the most loving thing you can do is to wish them well and then let go.
Here is the thing....it is true that you can make square pegs fit into round holes...provided that you hit them with a big enough hammer...but in the end they aren't square pegs anymore.
To hold onto that which doesn't work does damage to the other person and you....and that is obsession; NOT love or devotion.
I agree, providing the analysis of the situation can result in an assessment which is as black and white as that.
However, sometimes the situation is obscured in a flurry of mixed messages.
After all, while the struggle continues within the heart and mind of the submissive, she hasn't made a decision and is bouncing back and forth in her thoughts and feelings.
If she externalizes this conflict, verbalizes it or acts it out, then the master is being involved in a tug of war between the submissive's opposing sides.
He's bombarded with mixed messages: sometimes he's a saint and other times he's satan.
My feeling is this occurs because in some way the master, being who he is, has tempted the submissive to be a submissive. She wouldn't be going through the angst of the struggle if not for the fact he exists and she wants to be in his life.
Should she externalize the internal struggle, it seems most likely he will come to represent one of the sides in the struggle: the side that wishes to submit.
Thus she projects her desire to submit onto him, and in her eyes he comes to represent all that is driving her desire to submit.
And anything he contributes in the way of encouragement to submit is magnified by her projection.
Now what can he do in this situation?
Once the struggle has been externalized and the master has been dragged into it it becomes a Catch-22 for the master.
He cannot encourage without appearing to be trying to force her to submit.
He cannot discourage as there is likely months of talking and dating and growing affection that has led to the intimacy needed to trigger the crisis the submissive experiences when she struggles against her desire to submit.
And trying to assume a neutral position in the struggle is disingenuous at best.
My own approach has been when she expresses doubts to remind her of things she's said about what she wants and why she thinks she might have difficulty attaining it.
I reassure her that what I want most is her happiness, with me if possible but if not with me then that is how it should be.
There could be no joy in my life with someone who is miserable, an obvious truth many seem to overlook.
But as I said earlier in the thread, my ability to participate in the process very much depends upon her willingness to talk about her thoughts and feelings. Those who won't are already demonstrating the lack of trust that will lead to the end of the relationship if not reversed.
And this is where the mixed messages obscure my ability to assess the situation.
Some submissives need time to think things through before they're willing to talk. In recognizing this and respecting her need, we focus on other things and there can be goodness in those experiences. But when the difficulty with trust arises again and again, a pattern eventually emerges, and the need to address the issues increases for these issues are hampering the growth of the relationship.
Sometimes a submissive fights her desire to submit because she is too damaged to be able to extend the trust needed to submit. Either life as a submissive is not for her, or it can only be for her after she has addressed her trust issues (with professional help if need be).
But this is not evident in her statements or behaviour at least some of the time, as she very much wants the security and love she believes she will find once she submits to the right man.
Thus: mixed messages.
I have yet to find a crystal ball that can tell me this is coming.
Love, by its nature, extends hope and trust and faith in the one loved. As long as one I love is still trying to address her issues, I cannot see me saying it is over.
But should she give up trying, or in the attempts she makes she ends up worse off than before she tried, then it is more obvious that the relationship we'd initially discussed is not going to happen.
But it is difficult to make that judgment as long as the mixed messages continue.
_____________________________
When all is said and done, what will you regret?
That you never really lived?
Or there was so much living left to do?
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RE: Humbly asking for advice ... - 
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