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RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/3/2005 2:48:20 AM   
Soulhuntre


Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut
For what you are looking for, it is quite true that it is not a level playing field. However, for those who are seeking a monogamous relationship that contains a D/s dynamic, the time prior to that relationship commencing IS a level playing field.


Sometimes... not all the time.

Look, it is a simple fact of the universe in my experience that between ANY two human beings a power differential will always exist. As such, the idea fo a "level playing field" is a fine one in theory but one that doesn't actually happen.

Now, if you wish to express that in many relationships authority does not start until it is formally agreed upon then I will agree entirely. If your going to claim that this is >always< so or that to deviate from this idea is wrong or predatory, then I disagree.

quote:


I am not a "service oriented" sub, rather I am seeking a life partner, and a monogamous one at that. Therefore, I do have every right to expect that should this person express to me that they don't want me to have that kind of contact with other dominants that they also should stop having that kind of contact with other subs.


You (and anyone else) are welcome to try and gain any concession or advantage you wish. If you can get someoen to agree to this then go for it if thats what you want.

What I object to is the tone of the OP that implied that any situation that did NOT operate in this manner was wrong or unethical.

quote:


But continuing to imply that subs/slaves have no rights in the "courting" phase is laughable. If that were the case, every self proclaimed master would be able to snatch up anyone they desired because the sub/slave didn't have a say in the matter.


The concept of a "right" and the concept of what someoen has the ability to do are radically different.

It is this idea, that a submissive has a natural "right" to demand a profile change that I disagree with... just like I would not claim that a dominant has such a "right". To imply it is to confuse the idea of what s "right" is. Now, a submissive and / or a dominant may well have the >ability< to make such a demand... thats a different animal :)

quote:


If masters think that they do not subject themselves to "consideration" by the sub/slave they are also considering, they are quite deluded.


I am completely aware that I am constantly under evaluation by those who may approach me. The difference lies in another aspect of the situation...

They are looking for a boon from me, not the other way around. The will adapt to fit my needs, I will not adapt to theirs.

Obviously if I do not "fit" for them they will have no interest in seeking a position with me. The issue at hand is who is the one doing the asking :)

(in reply to FLButtSlut)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 8:09:20 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline 		During the government’s debate in Canada about same sex marriages, the questions was posed to the supporters that if the laws and rules of marriage were changed to allow same sex marriage, couldn’t an argument be made that allowing polygamy will come in the future. And that based on the same sex marriage changes, it would succeed?

The great and noble champion of the people, who fought so hard for the right to show love, caring and commitment regardless of sex stood up and stated something to the effect that while homosexuality is beautiful and natural polygamy is horrid and unnatural. Of course these people use gay dogs and ducks to prove how natural it is. Guess they forgot about the lion and naked mole rats huh? And that dogs will screw other species, inanimate object relatives and so on…

What we have here is the same thing. Because you think differently then others, they must be wrong. You want a monogamous relationship so we who do not are a bit weird. Because you think a collar of consideration is stupid, those who don’t are deluded. That since you want a level playing field anyone who likes a bit of a slope needs help or is deserving of pity.

Thing is, just because you like corn flakes doesn’t mean everyone else should. Or that those that like corn pops are sad lonely people. And those that like bran flakes are sicko perverts who are looking to abuse and cause harm to people who are just starting out eating cereal. Different stroke for different folks. Hey someone might like to add bananas to their corn flakes.

As for a level playing field, come on, its called Power Exchange. Not Power Leveling. Or Equal and Fair Treatment For All. Your saying you want someone to take control but they better damn well make sure everything is equal? Personally, I know several girls that if a Master/Dom/Top started the relationship that way, they would smile nicely and go find a good ole caveman. Could it be the people your talking about do not want a level playing field?

And please understand, I’m not saying your wrong FOR YOU. Just that you cannot say everyone has to follow your mindset.
Tony

(in reply to Phoenxx)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 8:39:23 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavedesires

I make the same generalizations Darkfall has made when I see "under consideration."
If someone is REALLY under consideration, why do they sign in all the time? Dont you think they'd stay off the site for a while and get to know someone? Or at least stay off the site while they learn more about this person and learn more about themselves?

Another judgement on my part...but I also think they put it there to ward off some "unlikeables" they have encountered.

Once again, we see the complex nature of people and are not privy to their motives. Thank the good Lord.


We encourage our servants who are under consideration to sign in, to read the message boards, to be involved in interesting chats, and to keep many of their current friends, both online and off. This is a period of consideration, and we use a collar a bit differently than many do, as well. We want to know all about our potential servant's life. We want to know whether their online activities interfere with the proper functioning of their lives. We want to know whether they have friends who are holding them back, or whether they have friends who are building them up and helping them grow. We want to know how they balance work, family, and recreation. All of these things are important in -addition- to how well we all get along, so that we can figure out where structure will need to be developed, reinforced, or where they will need to be encouraged to expand, recreate and celebrate so that they are as healthy, successful in their lives, and strong to serve us as they can be.

For those who are interested, we have a different perspective on the whole "collar" thing than many do. Our new servants and servants in consideration always get collars, to remind them of their commitment and to let them know that we've made a commitment to their growth and protection. By the time a servant has been with us a while, the collar, when they wear it, becomes "decorative". Most of the time, within the confines of our house, they don't wear them. If we're throwing a big, fancy, party, or they are going through a hard time and need a little extra reminder of our security, they wear their collars or another symbolic item that we've given them to represent the bond between us. Those who get as far as 'slave' in our household often wear collars only as halloween costumes. The "invisible" collar is almost all they ever need to know exactly what their place is with us, and that they are cherished and secure, and will be carefully managed and directed in that place. In turn, we know that they completely understand their commitment, and even on a bad day, they will never forget the oaths that they've taken and that we've made to them. And if the day comes that they outgrow their current station, it won't come as a surprise to any of us -- everyone would have seen it coming, discussed it, and begun the process of changing to the next most growth-provoking situation.

Lady Zephyr

(in reply to slavedesires)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 8:46:11 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

If someone is REALLY under consideration, why do they sign in all the time? Dont you think they'd stay off the site for a while and get to know someone?


This is severe! Since when did being in a relationship mean that you must cease reaching out to other people in the lifestyle and maintaining the friends you've already made? Whoa.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 9:24:21 AM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

This is severe! Since when did being in a relationship mean that you must cease reaching out to other people in the lifestyle and maintaining the friends you've already made? Whoa.


This doesn't surprise me at all. Several years ago, I was on a discussion list on yahoo called Subs ISO Masters. Then, I got involved with a dominant who I met through the group, and one of the submissives on that group told me that, since I'd already found someone, I needed to leave the group. I thought her comment rather cheeky, and so did the list owner.

I'm not on that list any more, but it's mostly because we stopped having the stimulating conversations we used to have.

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 11:18:36 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

If someone is REALLY under consideration, why do they sign in all the time? Dont you think they'd stay off the site for a while and get to know someone?


This is severe! Since when did being in a relationship mean that you must cease reaching out to other people in the lifestyle and maintaining the friends you've already made? Whoa.

Actually Katylied, one of the warning signs of an abuser is that they forbid you contact from old friends and family. They isolate you from your support system. To say that someone under consideration should have no contact with anyone so they can “get to know you” would be a trouble sign in my mind. Of course when I met sue, my submissive/wife, I gave her phone numbers of friends that knew me and I was and still am willing to provide references BEFORE we meet someone. Hell I invite them to join one of the lifestyle e-lists I help out on or run. That way they get to see how I think and what I say.
Weird I know… learning about someone and what they think before you meet them..
And for the record, my wife has seen our ad and loves the idea of another woman joining us.
I’m a luuuucky pervert LOL
Tony

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 11:32:03 AM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		"Under consideration" only means they are dating,and don't want anyone horning in while they decide if it's going to work or not.

Usually,the only ones who take issue with this are tops who want to date the same girl.

Howvever,showing disrespect to the consideration dynamic usually backfires on the one trying to horn in. It basically says "selfish much,dude?'

And usually no "isolation" is meant-but from competing tops. Which is why you see the girls signing in all of the time-they are still allowed to be social-just not with other Tops. (who are often known for wanting what they want,and not taking no for an answer-especially online)If it went further than that, THEN I would wonder.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/7/2005 11:34:41 AM >

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 12:27:28 PM   
MBDom4sub


Posts: 11
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
It is my belief that no truly powerful Dom would ever offer a collar of consideration. They are a babystep on the path of power exchange and a disservice to subs entering the lifestyle.

Those collars are given by Dom's who are uncomfortable with the unknown element a new sub represents. It acts to shield to the weak Dom from any surprising situations the he knows he cannot handle. Should the weak Dom find he is in a situation he cannot control, he is justified in releasing his sub without losing face or facing defeat.

To the unsuspecting sub, it is viewed as an act of strength and authority. This is natural as new or vanilla subs do not have the TPE experience to understand what constitutes real power and strength; Subjectively relative power exchange. All the sub perceives is an application of power that is more powerful than what they've experienced in the past.

However anyone who has or has experienced real strength and power knows this to be untrue. Collars of consideration are given because the weak Dom is afraid, ergo they are a product of weakness and fear. Real Dom's are able to handle unexpected situations, are able to bring unruly subs into line. We do not let fear control us.

Ultimately, as more and more new subs are exposed to this cancerous practice, the D's community as a whole will become weaker, diluted. The only way this down-slide will stop is if weak Dom's are recognized then neutralized.

In my opinion this can happen either of two ways: Dom's must earn the right to be called Dom's thereby we produce our own Dom's internally or subs must be educated on what constitutes real power and let them weed out the imposters.

~R~


(in reply to Phoenxx)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 12:52:47 PM   
Soulhuntre


Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
Those collars are given by Dom's who are uncomfortable with the unknown element a new sub represents.


So what - real strength would be collaring someone without knowing anything about them right? Because a "real dom" can always just handle whatever comes up. Cute, I like it.

By this logic even having a discussion with a sub would be a sign of weakness... I mean, real doms don't fear the unknown so I don't need to find out anything about her at all :)

I'll take the sub behind door number 3 Monty :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
Should the weak Dom find he is in a situation he cannot control, he is justified in releasing his sub without losing face or facing defeat.


Heres a question, WHY should a owner have to "handle" anything at all from their property? Maybe ths issue isn't about what they can or can't handle - but what they wish or do not wish to handle.

Quite frankly I am not sure why a owner woudl want or feel compelled to wade through unexpected problems. If at some point it becomes clear the servant in question isn;t worth the effort they are costing you cut them loose. But then, I am one of those evil doms who doesn't feel someones submission is a gift to me :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
However anyone who has or has experienced real strength and power knows this to be untrue. Collars of consideration are given because the weak Dom is afraid, ergo they are a product of weakness and fear. Real Dom's are able to handle unexpected situations, are able to bring unruly subs into line. We do not let fear control us.


Hey, if you want to expend your energy dealing with an "unruly" sub because youd idn;t bother to find out if they were goign to be a pain in the ass ahead of time thats your choice - but it has nothing to do with strength. I suppose a good mechanic wouldn't bother finding out if a used car had serious problems either... I mean any real mechanic can just fix it all anyway :)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
Ultimately, as more and more new subs are exposed to this cancerous practice, the D's community as a whole will become weaker, diluted. The only way this down-slide will stop is if weak Dom's are recognized then neutralized.


The sky is falling!

I mean, it's not like this sort of thing has been around for centuries (trial service before a lifelong comittment) or like it was common in the pre-internet BDSM community... oh wait, it was :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
In my opinion this can happen either of two ways: Dom's must earn the right to be called Dom's thereby we produce our own Dom's internally or subs must be educated on what constitutes real power and let them weed out the imposters.


Yeah, I would LOVE to see some central authority try and decide who is and isn't dominant :) That would be hilarious.

Heres a hint: Anyone who actually WOULD submit their dominance to the approval and judgement of such a council fails the test by definition :)

(in reply to MBDom4sub)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 12:54:39 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, in our case, it is because I have a LOT more to consider than my own face. I have a household full of people to consider, and bringing a newcomer into the situation without making sure that he or she is a good fit for all of us would not only be stupid, it would be irresponsible beyond belief.

Your opinion may work for your relationship, and may even be able to be applied to some monogamous relationships without too much damage -- especially if the individual who is the Owner has no issue with putting a great deal of time into property and then getting rid of them when they don't work out. That isn't an option in our situation. If they're not a good fit, or, worse, if they are troublemakers, many people besides myself would end up suffering until the situation was resolved -- and even as careful as we are, with some who have come to serve with us, even with our policy to see if the fit was good first, things changed once they got into the household, and that resolution time at the point that we determined "incompatible" and sent the person on hir way was -still- long enough to emotionally and financially "dent" some of our family (and it must also be understood that we are a true "family", with more than one generation present in our household).

Maybe it is an aspect of being an abbess and a woman, but to me, it seems like folly to take no time to consider whether you are truly a fit with the person you intend to enter into a relationship with, whether it is M/s or marriage.

P.S.: Oh, and in terms of this being a 'weakness'...if it is a weakness, then why is it pretty much a standard process for any major dedication? I am taking my final vows as abbess in our spiritual community this weekend...after a 1 year "trial" to make sure that I was spiritually, mentally, and emotionally prepared to take on such a responsibility!

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub

Those collars are given by Dom's who are uncomfortable with the unknown element a new sub represents. It acts to shield to the weak Dom from any surprising situations the he knows he cannot handle. Should the weak Dom find he is in a situation he cannot control, he is justified in releasing his sub without losing face or facing defeat.



< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 10/7/2005 12:58:13 PM >

(in reply to MBDom4sub)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 12:57:00 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		"Probation periods" are a time honored and tested process.

And they aren't weak,they are smart.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 1:11:56 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		ROFLMAO!!!!!

I'm with Soulhuntre on that one

ROFLMAO... some days this place is just a riot.

Look folks, said this before, I'm not much for collars of consideration. Personally I find them pointless, but that's just me. My observation has been that most of them are dom's trying to mark territory while they still tomcat around. Now if they want to stake a claim with someone they are serious with, fine, but get serious and cut out the tomcatting.... ya ain't havin it both ways, least not around this ole boy. Me personally, if I want folks to know I'm getting serious about someone I just say... yeah I'm gettin serious about so an so, she seems like a good girl, this might turn into something... an there you go, what's not clear about that? Anyone who has an ounce of respect for me would not need to hear another word to give me an said lass a lil space. Those who don't respect me, they aren't going to anyway so what difference does it make. If you really want to get away from the distractions, turn the damn computer off for awhile and go spend time with said person. Cause I can guarantee you that collar of consideration isn't going to do a damn thing to stop the distractions (ie trolls, HNGs, domly dom types, etc) otherwise. If they aren't adult enough to handle a few distractions... do ya really want them?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Soulhuntre)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 1:17:15 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		so what would a Dom be if 'under consideration'?

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 1:22:59 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

so what would a Dom be if 'under consideration'?

Lucky?!?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 1:23:39 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Grins,what,you think this whole consideration process is one way?

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 1:26:03 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		And as far as the "tomcatting", that has never been my practice. One sub is more than enough work,thank you very much. but I am still going to *consider* before I *commit*.

Engaging in frenzies is not the best of ways to find out if a partner is a good long term possibility!

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 1:38:05 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

so what would a Dom be if 'under consideration'?

Lucky?!?



ROFLMAO

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 2:32:29 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

And as far as the "tomcatting", that has never been my practice. One sub is more than enough work,thank you very much. but I am still going to *consider* before I *commit*.

Engaging in frenzies is not the best of ways to find out if a partner is a good long term possibility!

Ayup, pretty much how I feel about it. I take my relationships serious (unlike some of my posts) and here again I tend to be pretty pragmatic about it. The way I see it a relationship is a relationship is a relationship... doesn't matter if its alternative lifestyle or not, kinky or not. So when I persue a M/s relationship I approach it much the way I would any relationship. I look for a good foundation, I look for someone I'm attracted to, I look for compatability, I look for some common interest, I look for specific characteristics that I know work for me in particular, and so forth. Figuring all that out takes a bit of time (usually, I will admit, met one lass in my life that first time I met her I knew I'd ask her to marry me... but that is a VERY rare kind of thing, and even then it was six months before I actually popped the question) and focusing on that particular relationship. I think anyone with some sense is going to consider carefully before making a decision that could seriously affect their life. Then again I wonder about how much sense some folks have.

My remark about tomcatting was something I've seen happen a lot and my feeling about it is pretty much this, if they aren't going to take that relationship serious than neither am I. Now if I see two people who really are taking each other serious as they get to know each other, they won't have to ask me to back off, I'll give them space just as a matter of basic respect.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 2:42:09 PM   
Soulhuntre


Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
pointless, but that's just me. My observation has been that most of them are dom's trying to mark territory while they still tomcat around. Now if they want to stake a claim with someone they are serious with, fine, but get serious and cut out the tomcatting.... ya ain't havin it both ways, least not around this ole boy.


And of course that is one of the things that varies from person to person and relationship to relationship. I woudl never dream of allowing someoen in my service, my girl or my property the right to decide who I do and don't sleep with, play with or hurt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
what's not clear about that? Anyone who has an ounce of respect for me would not need to hear another word to give me an said lass a lil space. Those who don't respect me, they aren't going to anyway so what difference does it make.


Now THAT is well said and I agree entirely. Those people I respect and consider peers get that consideration from me - I would never allow my interest in a servant get between me and the respect I have for my friends and peers.

Those who I do not consider such? I owe them nothing.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: "Under Consideration" - 10/7/2005 2:52:03 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Well,there is a pretty pervasive "cake and eat it too" attitude in this realm guy.

I dated one sub who wanted me to share her with a guy she was already seeing once. I told her to come back when she had cleared her plate. Took about a day before she did. (which should have been a warning sign,right there- I foolishly ignored it) I saw her for about six months,then discovered,sure enough-she was still seeing him,and others.

This was a deal breaker. It had been made clear far in advance that this one one of the few hard limits that could end up in instant dismissal if it was broken. I guess maybe she didn't take me seriously- so she tried to lie about it when confronted-deal breaker number two out of two.

I mean I am NOT stupid,I had done the sleuth work-I KNEW. So when I say "considering" it means exclusive,you do NOT screw around with other people-take this as more than a game.

And that means me TOO-I do NOT do double standards-it would mess with my head, and destroy my self-image as a decent guy. I simply cannot rationalize being a crap-for-brains twit.

For in the long run,I would like someone who will stick around, and add things that are good to my life,in balance. Not take away from it, by acting like an out of control "player", with priorities in relationships that are so skewed that play always comes FIRST.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 80
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