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Loveisallyouneed -> extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:22:42 AM)
quote: It is by reaching beyond the ordinary to give the extraordinary that a slave distinguishes herself and her love. The more a slave thinks of herself, the more she is just like everyone else. The "gift" a slave gives is her selfless love. Thoughtful comments, please.

colouredin -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:27:01 AM)
"the more a slave thinks of herself the more she is just like everybody else"? Does that mean actually thinks about her needs and wants or how positivly she views herself? I am of the opinion that everyone is fundementally selfish, they do what they can to make themselves happy, if they are happy by making someone else happy it still has its roots in selfishness. Just my opinion.

TracyTaken -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:31:39 AM)
quote: I am of the opinion that everyone is fundementally selfish, they do what they can to make themselves happy, if they are happy by making someone else happy it still has its roots in selfishness. Just my opinion. I pretty much agree. Even Mother Theresa was aiming at heaven. [:)]

colouredin -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:32:43 AM)
Lol yeah total bitch she was :P But seriously I agree, its like joey in friends says there is no selfless good deed :D

Bound2One -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:37:35 AM)
I think in all loving relationships both partners give of themselves in a selfless manner. Certainly not in equal amounts, nor all the time, but that's what love is to me - a giving of oneself to the other. I don't see this as necessarily an M/s, D/s exclusive thing. I certainly receive the gift of Master's love, and he gives of himself freely within our relationship, sharing who he is with me.

Loveisallyouneed -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:37:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin "the more a slave thinks of herself the more she is just like everybody else"? Does that mean actually thinks about her needs and wants or how positivly she views herself? I am of the opinion that everyone is fundementally selfish, they do what they can to make themselves happy, if they are happy by making someone else happy it still has its roots in selfishness. Just my opinion. I think you are confusing selflessness with self-denial. Selflessness does not exclude one's own needs (such as the need to love another). Selflessness does not focus exclusively on one's own needs (as is the case with selfishness). Self-denial is the refusal to address one's own needs.

Bound2One -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:39:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin Lol yeah total bitch she was :P But seriously I agree, its like joey in friends says there is no selfless good deed :D LOL at the Joey reference ... "How YOU doin'?" I agree - no selfless good deed. Even being what is perceived to be 'selfless' towards my Master gains me more of his love because he receives my giving to him, and returns the love and attention to me.

Dnomyar -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:40:14 AM)
Gifts are for giving at birthdays, christmas, fathers day ect. If your into female supermacy then I guess that you can call what she gives you is a gift. It would probably be eaiser to pay a pro Domme for the same thing.

TracyTaken -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:44:35 AM)
quote: Selflessness does not exclude one's own needs (such as the need to love another). Selflessness does not focus exclusively on one's own needs (as is the case with selfishness). Self-denial is the refusal to address one's own needs. Before you said: quote: The more a slave thinks of herself, the more she is just like everyone else. The "gift" a slave gives is her selfless love. I'm saying that a decision to give such love (excluding UMs) is based on self, not other, with the motivation being happiness for self. How is that not "selfless"?

Loveisallyouneed -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:44:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar Gifts are for giving at birthdays, christmas, fathers day ect. If your into female supermacy then I guess that you can call what she gives you is a gift. It would probably be eaiser to pay a pro Domme for the same thing. Gifts are also qualities, such as a "gifted musician". Slaves are "gifted" when it comes to trust. They share their gift, or to say it another way, they give their gift to their master. They place their faith and trust in the one who binds them, the one who holds their life and well-being in his hands. That is indeed a gift solely theirs to give.

TethersEnd -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:45:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed quote: It is by reaching beyond the ordinary to give the extraordinary that a slave distinguishes herself and her love. The more a slave thinks of herself, the more she is just like everyone else. The "gift" a slave gives is her selfless love. Nope, I cant agree. Of course this spider has more legs then the average one too. Thoughts of self offer a mirror to guide by, what I mean by that is for someone to love selflessly and exist in todays busy world they have to be forward thinkers on many levels to allow them to become extraordinary. Thoughts of self are not always selfish, it all depends on the desired end result. just my 2 cents, .... then again, I'm no slave [;)]

Loveisallyouneed -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:52:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TracyTaken I'm saying that a decision to give such love (excluding UMs) is based on self, not other, with the motivation being happiness for self. How is that not "selfless"? When it is implied that this is the only motivation. Selfishness does not take into account the needs of others. Selflessness does. Selflessness seeks a harmonious balance between the needs of self and the needs of others. It depends much more on cooperation within the relationships. Selfishness is one-sided, does not require a balance or cooperation. Consider two hungry men and a sandwich. They could be selfish and fight over who gets to eat it, or they could be selfless and agree to split it and each eat half. Both choices involve a need to satisfy one's own needs, but only one of the choices takes into account the needs of the other. That is the selfless choice.

colouredin -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed I think you are confusing selflessness with self-denial. Selflessness does not exclude one's own needs (such as the need to love another). Selflessness does not focus exclusively on one's own needs (as is the case with selfishness). Self-denial is the refusal to address one's own needs. Selflessness by its very definition is to do something without the consideration of your self at all self·less (sělf'lĭs) adj. Having, exhibiting, or motivated by no concern for oneself; unselfish:

Dnomyar -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:53:44 AM)
Since when are slaves more gifted than anyone else when it come to trust? A gifted musician is one who practices a lot.

OmegaG -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 5:59:17 AM)
FR To make an effort to appear extrodinary or to appear selfless are selfish acts unto themselves. It is damned near impossible to be alturistic. Even when one appears to be working to make another happy, they are motivated by their own happiness which is fed when they please others.

TracyTaken -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 6:00:45 AM)
quote: Consider two hungry men and a sandwich. They could be selfish and fight over who gets to eat it, or they could be selfless and agree to split it and each eat half. Both choices involve a need to satisfy one's own needs, but only one of the choices takes into account the needs of the other. That is the selfless choice. No, the selfless choice would be to say, "Okay, you can have the whole sandwich." What you describe is a compromise.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 6:11:31 AM)
To me th M/s relationship is mutual, each wants and needs something the other can give. So to me that isn't selfless. He is fulfilling a need in me and I in him.

Jeffff -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 6:13:09 AM)
A person dominates because in the final analysis, it feels good. Another person submits for the same reason. If there is selfless love, the act of giving that ultimately makes the person giving it happy and fulfilled. This can be turned all sorts of ways and made to be anything you want. I think there is no altruism. We hopefully find another who gives what we need. Jeff

colouredin -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 6:17:14 AM)
Nicely said Jeffff side note- the only exception in selflessness that I can really see is when you have kids Im pretty sure that requires a lot of selfless behaviour

OmegaG -> RE: extraordinary ... (3/5/2008 6:21:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin Nicely said Jeffff side note- the only exception in selflessness that I can really see is when you have kids Im pretty sure that requires a lot of selfless behaviour Most people also procreate for selfish reasons.

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