RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 8:50:56 AM

luckydog1

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learn how to follow a conversation Alumbrado. the corner reply thing is really getting boring.......the comment was to to hippie. You know fully well what conversation I am talking about (you were part of it) .

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 8:51:02 AM

Marc2b

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The problem isn’t just a lack of scientific understanding but also one of common sense. If Big Foot really existed you know – you just know – that some Johnny six pack with his twelve gauge would have bagged his harry ass by now. If someone invented a carburetor that could get 500 miles to the gallon there would be no stopping it. It would spread like wildfire. This is why believers in junk science are often believers in world wide conspiracy theories. Why aren’t we all getting five hundred miles to the gallon? Because the Illuminati put the quash on it!

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 1:43:30 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The problem isn’t just a lack of scientific understanding but also one of common sense. If Big Foot really existed you know – you just know – that some Johnny six pack with his twelve gauge would have bagged his harry ass by now. If someone invented a carburetor that could get 500 miles to the gallon there would be no stopping it. It would spread like wildfire. This is why believers in junk science are often believers in world wide conspiracy theories. Why aren’t we all getting five hundred miles to the gallon? Because the Illuminati put the quash on it!

Exactly right. Same way believers in quack medicine came up with the word "Allopathic" to label evidence-based medicine.

I posted this link as a public service, to remind/educate people that there are some fairly easy ways to distinguish science from quackery. Critical thinking is not something that is taught in Uni, except as related to a particular discipline.

I do believe a couple people read it, and I hope they got something from it. Otherwise, Pearls before swine.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 4:23:07 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

learn how to follow a conversation Alumbrado. the corner reply thing is really getting boring.......the comment was to to hippie. You know fully well what conversation I am talking about (you were part of it) .

You are so full of it...try to stick to reality, and quit making up imaginary claims.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 4:55:43 PM

luckydog1

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go chew someone elses ankle alumbrado, it's boring.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 6:01:55 PM

Hippiekinkster

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Chill, guys. Comments on the materiel in my link are most welcome.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/10/2008 7:09:32 PM

luckydog1

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I did hippie, I asked how that related to beings from other planes that intervene in our materialist world to cause free will. And why the person asserting that as a cause had to resort to flinging insults. Or for any science based explanation that could cause free will or a random event in an athiestic/materialistic/deterministic universe. Alumbrado wanted to derail the idea...

I wanted to illustrate that "Twue Belevas" come in many flavors, and consider the lack of response to be vindication.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/11/2008 1:55:58 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The problem isn’t just a lack of scientific understanding but also one of common sense. If Big Foot really existed you know – you just know – that some Johnny six pack with his twelve gauge would have bagged his harry ass by now. If someone invented a carburetor that could get 500 miles to the gallon there would be no stopping it. It would spread like wildfire. This is why believers in junk science are often believers in world wide conspiracy theories. Why aren’t we all getting five hundred miles to the gallon? Because the Illuminati put the quash on it!

Exactly right. Same way believers in quack medicine came up with the word "Allopathic" to label evidence-based medicine.

I posted this link as a public service, to remind/educate people that there are some fairly easy ways to distinguish science from quackery. Critical thinking is not something that is taught in Uni, except as related to a particular discipline.

I do believe a couple people read it, and I hope they got something from it. Otherwise, Pearls before swine.

Its like one historian said "I have no need to invent a conspiracy there are so many real ones to choose from". Of course most people today love to have a good laugh and never substantiate their position.

we are still waiting to see your MATH that backs up all your smart talk there hk.

You apparently did not see my post on the previous page, maybe this will help you see it this time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Chill, guys. Comments on the materiel in my link are most welcome.

Quote from your link: "This site rated two stars by Mental Health Net"

_____________________________

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/11/2008 8:44:15 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I did hippie, I asked how that related to beings from other planes that intervene in our materialist world to cause free will. And why the person asserting that as a cause had to resort to flinging insults. Or for any science based explanation that could cause free will or a random event in an athiestic/materialistic/deterministic universe. Alumbrado wanted to derail the idea...

I wanted to illustrate that "Twue Belevas" come in many flavors, and consider the lack of response to be vindication.

So the only possible explanation for free will is supernatural entities? I think you must be 20 or 30 years behind on your reading on research into the brain/mind issue.

As to "random events," ever heard of chaos theory and quantum mechanics? Consider the classic example of the dice thrown on a craps table. Is the truly random? In reality the problem isn't that their is some "random" element to the action but that there are so many variables involved that calculating the outcome isn't possible. That doesn't mean we don't know how all the basic factors of friction, inertia, gravity etc

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/11/2008 10:13:24 AM

luckydog1

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Thats the only one I was given in the argument dom ken. If you don't know what is being talked about please educate yourself.

That the deterministic nature of an athiestic (materialist) universe, can't be predicted (on a micro level, for example lottery numbers next week)was covered in the thread, along with why. However, unless there is a reason for anything happening besides the laws of science (as they actually are, not our current incomplete understanding) there can be no free will, and every event is predeterimined down to the thoughts in our heads. Right?

The "what will be up" when the dice stops rolling is set at the instant it leaves your hand...It looks random to us, but its not.

Quantums either behave according to laws (internal consistent, not fully understood) or something else decides what they do. What would that force be in a an Athiestic universe?

Chaos thoery gets thrown around a lot (dinosuar movies and such), but agrees with me. It is deterministic, not random.

"In mathematics and physics, chaos theory describes the behavior of certain nonlinear dynamical systems that may exhibit dynamics that are highly sensitive to initial conditions (popularly referred to as the butterfly effect). As a result of this sensitivity, which manifests itself as an exponential growth of perturbations in the initial conditions, the behavior of chaotic systems appears to be random. This happens even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future dynamics are fully defined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved. This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

For some reason several of the Athiests are unwilling to admit they have no free will.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/11/2008 4:40:48 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

But where do the beings from other planes that intrevene in our materialistic world, allowing the existance of free will, fit into this? Oh that's right you threw insults to make your point. That is covered in your cited article isn't it?

No, I don't see anything about free will or determinism in the link I provided. If it is there, perhaps you would be so kind as to point it out to me.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/11/2008 4:42:52 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The problem isn’t just a lack of scientific understanding but also one of common sense. If Big Foot really existed you know – you just know – that some Johnny six pack with his twelve gauge would have bagged his harry ass by now. If someone invented a carburetor that could get 500 miles to the gallon there would be no stopping it. It would spread like wildfire. This is why believers in junk science are often believers in world wide conspiracy theories. Why aren’t we all getting five hundred miles to the gallon? Because the Illuminati put the quash on it!

Exactly right. Same way believers in quack medicine came up with the word "Allopathic" to label evidence-based medicine.

I posted this link as a public service, to remind/educate people that there are some fairly easy ways to distinguish science from quackery. Critical thinking is not something that is taught in Uni, except as related to a particular discipline.

I do believe a couple people read it, and I hope they got something from it. Otherwise, Pearls before swine.

Its like one historian said "I have no need to invent a conspiracy there are so many real ones to choose from". Of course most people today love to have a good laugh and never substantiate their position.

we are still waiting to see your MATH that backs up all your smart talk there hk.

You apparently did not see my post on the previous page, maybe this will help you see it this time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Chill, guys. Comments on the materiel in my link are most welcome.

Quote from your link: "This site rated two stars by Mental Health Net"

What the fuck are you talking about?

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/11/2008 4:53:36 PM

luckydog1

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hippie, so you can't remember conversations 3 weeks ago? Or are you pretending to not remember? Given that, your posting style makes far more sense....

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1625332 This could jog your memory. I find your article about how people misuse and don't understand science to be perfectly illustraded by your words on the thread I gave you a link to, and you pretend to not know about.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/12/2008 7:25:26 PM

Real0ne

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I want to see your simple calculations since it was only a few days prior to this thread that I was talking about a high gas mileage carb eh....

reread your op if you still cant figure it out.

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/12/2008 8:46:51 PM

Real0ne

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I did not run back and look at the 40 pages you guys were discussing this but just from a quick look at your post here it appears your atheistic matiral theory falls apart as soon as you include man in that atheist or not corporeal beings can make irrational and totally illogical judgements or even a series of irratiojnal judgements built on the previous leading to an even greator series and eventually insanity. In anything there is a certain predictability if given a number of choices however it winds up a guessing game nonethe less.

So it wont work with man brought into the picture, however I do not see a problem in the physical world to predict with relative certainty the actions of the same world.

I am an atheist and I have no problems with the notion of free will and I do not see the correlation between a religion and the nature of mans action or are you tryin gto point out that to have free will one needs religion?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/12/2008 10:06:04 PM

petdave

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Hmm... sentence fragments + link that does nothing but state the obvious until i get bored + massive 'tude of *yawn* perceived intellectual superiority = why the fuck did you post this, exactly?

Don't talk too much trash about quackery- it gave us the Violet Wand.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/13/2008 7:29:03 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Hmm... sentence fragments + link that does nothing but state the obvious until i get bored + massive 'tude of *yawn* perceived intellectual superiority = why the fuck did you post this, exactly?

Don't talk too much trash about quackery- it gave us the Violet Wand.

I am convinced that he is taking a shot at me but speaking of violet wands :)

Check these out, especially the russian one, they really went all out...

BUT

Take note of the sparks from teslas original coil as compared to ANY other coil ever built by anyone and note the awesome coupling he gets by comparison!

No one that I have seen to date, not even dollard has been able to reproduce this great of a coupling in combination with so many harmonics and ball lightning.

http://www.oobject.com/category/crazy-tesla-coils/

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/13/2008 7:31:37 AM >

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/13/2008 10:37:48 AM

luckydog1

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"I am an atheist and I have no problems with the notion of free will and I do not see the correlation between a religion and the nature of mans action or are you tryin gto point out that to have free will one needs religion?"

Nope you are missing the point entirerly.   Religion is not the same as believing there is a God (force of some sort).

If you are an athiest/materialist....how could there be free will. Your thoughts are nothing but the byproducts of chemical reactions (which is what your sensory input is converted to..   What beyond the immutable laws of science could cause anything, including human thoughts and emotions to happen?

An athiestic universe is deterministic down to the thoughts in your head, and nothing can happen except according to the rules of science (as they actually are--not as we presently incompletely understand them. ).

Humans are not seperate from creation in anyway (according to Athiests)

If you have any method of allowing free will to exist, please cite it, so we can discuss and learn.    So far all I was given was an incorrect description of Quantum and Chaos theory, and a postulation that beings from other planes do it.

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/13/2008 4:12:25 PM

Real0ne

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Still not sure I get "precisely" where you are coming from on that since I am not able to combine athiesm with determinism in absolute terms therefor I do not see how all causation without exception must be intrinsically tied to athiesm? Lack of religion is a religion in itself for all intents and purposes.

It seems to me that determinism can only be used if the round peg fits into the round hole and must be very carefully applied to in the end be correct usage.

It seems to me that you can equally combine any god force as you put it with determinism too?

So if determinism is that which is calculatable for all intents and purposes then what is irrationality? That which is not calculatable? The god force? That which cannot be accounted for by determinism? How are you catagorizing all this?

Frankly topics like this get difficult unless everything is well defined and I do not even know what a god force is in your terms. I guess I cannot comprehend what a god force is in any terms so I am pretty much winging it here.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Cain't hep mahself... part one: Quackery - 3/13/2008 4:38:21 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"I am an atheist and I have no problems with the notion of free will and I do not see the correlation between a religion and the nature of mans action or are you tryin gto point out that to have free will one needs religion?"

Nope you are missing the point entirerly.   Religion is not the same as believing there is a God (force of some sort).

If you are an athiest/materialist....how could there be free will. Your thoughts are nothing but the byproducts of chemical reactions (which is what your sensory input is converted to..   What beyond the immutable laws of science could cause anything, including human thoughts and emotions to happen?

An athiestic universe is deterministic down to the thoughts in your head, and nothing can happen except according to the rules of science (as they actually are--not as we presently incompletely understand them. ).

Humans are not seperate from creation in anyway (according to Athiests)

If you have any method of allowing free will to exist, please cite it, so we can discuss and learn.    So far all I was given was an incorrect description of Quantum and Chaos theory, and a postulation that beings from other planes do it.

As usual, you are making up nonsensical definitions, and pretending that they must apply to every usage of the word or term.

If the decision was not influenced by an outside agency, it is considered free will.... at least by the dictionary ( and we are all too painfully aware of how offended you are by that).

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