Ideals and Fears and Differences

Ideals and Fears and Differences (Full Version)

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TracyTaken -> Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 5:13:21 PM)
I am instructed to secure a concealed weapons permit. He just went through the classes to get his and insisted if I never choose to hold a gun again in my life, I need to take the classes and get permitted. I need to know the laws, etc. I grew up in a home where guns were bad, guns were dangerous, having one in the home put you in harm's way, etc. My dad was career Airforce, but he would not have a firearm in the house. Now, I'm afraid of them. I tried to be a good "getting into your hobbies" partner and went to the shooting range with him and his friends. I've done it before. I never liked it. Last time was about 100 times worse because I was standing two feet behind him (with double ear protection and all) when he fired an AR50. Dear Gourds, it felt so horrible - not just the noise, the concussion shook me to my very bones. Every time somebody fired it, I jumped out of my skin even when I was several feet away. So, I'm going to do this thing that I really don't want to do. And I'm going to own a gun, which is probably the last thing in the world I'd want to own (okay, except for maybe a primate). It's his ideals and his fear (that I won't be protected when he's not home) that are driving it. To him, armed equals safe. To me, gun equals danger. I'm okay with it and not fighting it (in some ways - like learning the law - it sounds interesting). And, it's what he wants, so it's what I'll do. I was hoping to hear from others about contradictory fears and ideals in a D/s relationship.

SubbieOnWheels -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 5:25:46 PM)
I wouldn't do it. I flat out wouldn't do it. Any more than I would jump out of an airplane with a parachute. If it's against your nature, it's against your nature. I'd try to talk through his fears first. But then I'm not in the kind of relationship where I have to do things just because somebody else says to do them.

Bound2One -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 5:36:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels But then I'm not in the kind of relationship where I have to do things just because somebody else says to do them. Bethical, I really must point out here that this came across as very disrespectful to those of us who are in a TPE type of relationship. EDITED: I should be clear - this came across as very disrespectful to me, as I am in a TPE relationship. I'm not talking for anyone else. On topic ... as far as contradictory fears and ideals go, Tracy, I don't think I've run into anything similar yet in my experiences, at least not as far as something like training to operate a gun. I do have some personal fears that I've asked Master to help me overcome which inhibit our playtime, but I'm not sure that's the same thing that you're talking about b/c I've asked him to help; he hasn't instructed me to overcome them.

ThinkingKitten -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 5:37:48 PM)
You can go through the actions, but it most likely won't change your fundamental belief/value structure . It's kind of like converting so a religion for someone's else's sake - you can appear as devout as all get out, but inside you still don't believe..... The problem is going to arise when someone wants to change your beliefs and fails to value your right to your own opinion and tries to strongarm/browbeat you into wanting something else. You can take the courses. You can own/carry a gun. Doesn't mean you have to use it, even if your life were in jeopardy. As long as the D understands that these are superficial things. If he won't then I would have cause to question the relationship. I would have difficulty with doing either of those things because to some it might be interpreted as condoning the gun culture - which I certainly do not. You may have to decide which is more important - his values, or yours. Pick your battles carefully though.

Leatherist -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 5:58:38 PM)
I feel the same way about marriage. [:D]

Stephann -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 6:00:35 PM)
I have enormous respect for a person willing to set aside their fundamental (personal) fears, to embrace a concept in the manner you have Tracy. It's clear he's not asking you to do something that will damage or harm you. As suggested, if you follow the letter of his law, that's a strong display of obedience. I trust you've discussed your fears with him; it's information he requires. Guns are tools. Do you think twice about using a kitchen knife? Truth is, you'd probably be deadiler with a knife than a gun if push came to shove (less hesitation to drive a knife into someone who's about to attack your child.) The knife is a tool, just as a gun is. D/s aside, I think one of the best ways to lose your fear of something, is to become skilled with it. Many other 'dangerous' activities are like this; fireplay is a hard limit for many people new to the lifestyle, for example. When this new person actually sees it done, and how little danger is posed by it, usually it's not a problem. Good luck in your new endeavor. Stephan

petdave -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 6:08:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TracyTaken So, I'm going to do this thing that I really don't want to do. And I'm going to own a gun, which is probably the last thing in the world I'd want to own (okay, except for maybe a primate). It's his ideals and his fear (that I won't be protected when he's not home) that are driving it. To him, armed equals safe. To me, gun equals danger. I'm okay with it and not fighting it (in some ways - like learning the law - it sounds interesting). And, it's what he wants, so it's what I'll do. I was hoping to hear from others about contradictory fears and ideals in a D/s relationship. Well, i can't really offer much as far as the contradictory fears goes, but perhaps i could offer some advice as far as the firearms training goes? i assume you've made him aware of your dislike of (can i say fear of?) guns. If not, then most of this is wasted, but anyway... Always remember, he has good intentions. In light of this, please make sure to talk to him about "non-lethal self-defense", such as pepper spray, stun guns, etc. This can help ease his mind as terms of you protecting yourself. If you know in your heart that you could never use a firearm against a human being, it's better for you to have something that you can use. If he owns an AR50, i'm sure he's been exposed to a lot of discussion of this, even if he doesn't agree with it. A lot of people involved in the shooting hobbies will tell you, don't carry a gun unless you're willing to use it in a life-or-death situation. Don't buy a pistol expecting that you can just pull it out and make your problems go away by show of force. Has he taken you shooting with a .22 caliber rifle, preferably with just the two of you on a fairly quiet range? They're the most non-threatening way to expose a non-shooter to the sport, by far. My wife is much more positive towards guns than you are, and i still leave the heavy-hitters at home when we go out together. Anyway, best of luck to you in following through... If i had any Good Subbie Points, i'd give you a few [:)]

derfrewop -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 6:16:51 PM)
I think this is one you should just go along with. You are pretty clear that this is about his love for you. You aren't likely to be hurt by having the gun and getting some training with it. In the unlikely event that you should actually need it, its clear that you are not going to pull the trigger. This is not about the BDSM relationship at all. Its the relationship. I am reminded my Grandfather and Grandmother. She made him wear a tie to go to work and every single day for 64 years, he took it off as soon as he was out of sight. He told me its was her way of showing how much she loved him so he absolutely had to wear it around her. His opinion was it was utterly stupid, inappropriate for a "working man" and generally against his principles. I can't say his way is the right way but I do know they were madly in love for over 64 years. From a completely Dom perspective though, I gotta question the wisdom of giving a sub a gun and knowledge how to use it. I know that I have utterly screwed up in the past and despite my superduper certified never fail uberDom powers, I will likely do so again. The gun in the nightstand makes the consquence of too hard a flogging a lot worse than a few hours of heavy snuggling and aftercare. But thats just my opinion

msterfixer -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 6:19:43 PM)
Knowledge is power, armed knowledge is survival. I am new to being armed, I can wait to use it.

SteelofUtah -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 7:19:23 PM)
I am a firearms enthusiast so anything I say is bias. HOWEVER, I have yet to hear an argument that worked when it came to the idea that KNOWING Firearm saftey was a Bad thing. I personally think Firearm Saftey should be a required class in Elementary, Junior High, And High School (For those in other countries A refresher course three times during Primary Lessons) I am not saying they should own a gun or be forced to fire one but they should know saftey. I believe that if you know HOW to use a gun and you have access to one when something bad happens then you are safer than if you did not. (By the way guys last year in New York there were only 5 cases of Police showing up during an intruder attack out of the over 30,000 that were reported. in case you are wanting to see that again 5 in 30,000 the other 29,995 cases were attacked and had to report it afterward) I am not saying that you should own a gun because someone who does not want to use one who owns one and has to use it usually get's it taken from them and has it used on them. I Suggest Shotguns for saftey. Because if you teach them to hold it to the side at waist level and use the pendulum action as they fire I GUARANTEE you will Hit Something. Sure you might hit the wall but some of that buck shot is gunna get the bad guy. I don't understand the need for a CCW Permit but it is what he wants and if you are going to surrender to his will, and is sounds like you have already agreed to, then do your best and make the most of it and try to start seeing guns differently than you do now. See them as Life Savers and only to be used in EXTREME situations, and I would also TALK to your Master about how you are feeling and ask if you could be excused from shooting guns with him anymore I know you want to make him happy but it sounds a lot to me like he is unaware of exactly how you feel when you shoot a gun. To answer the question you asked, andi was never into threesomes and I was always a sexually driven man and after she relaxed she found how much she enjoyed having another woman with us and now we are looking for a second permanent. So sometimes trying things and really letting yourself relax can lead to POSITIVE situations. As Always Steel

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 9:00:04 PM)
Geesh my first master telling me not to wear certain things on the subway because I was a woman and what attraction it could bring. We had one serious talk over that and then it was just "Yes sir" and I did it. But gosh it made me seethe.

SailingBum -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 9:18:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: msterfixer Knowledge is power, armed knowledge is survival. I am new to being armed, I can wait to use it. What the difference between that and say learning judo. I own a gun and know how to use it. I wouldn't think twice about protecting anyone that I deemed in danger. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. BadOne

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 10:06:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petdave If you know in your heart that you could never use a firearm against a human being, it's better for you to have something that you can use. I was thinking these same throughts.

IronBear -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 10:17:08 PM)
I have two lines of thought on this. If it is against someones nature and they are never likely to need or want to handle a weapon I probably would not make an issue of the point. However I would make a point of instructing them on the safety of all weapons and what not to do if they ever had to handle one even just to make sure it is safe. Society being what it is these days and were not my home security being top notch, I would make sure that all members of Bruin Cottage had the knowledge, practice and licences to be able legally use any weapon in my home (except for my restricted bag of goodies). I would want any female in my home at least knowing how to protect herself. On the other hand, were I living in a remore and/or dangerous area, it would be manditory for all house personell to be proficient in the use of all wedapons in the home, including their care and maintance and be licenced to handle those requiring a licence. This includes fire arms, bows of all sorts and blades.. (Grenades and Gass weapons I possibly may not insist though and they would not have access to my private goodies bag). Iron Bear Master of Bruin Cottage My Life for my Queen My Soul for my Goddess My Heart for my Lady And my Honor for myself *"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does."* (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)

StormsSlave -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 10:17:59 PM)
My father was a small arms instructor in the Air Force. My parents, god bless their progressive hearts, believed that their girls and boys were going to need certain key skills in this world, and one of those things was gun safety. I can shoot, as well as maintain firearms, and I depend on them as a means of home defense. When I lived in Oregon, I had a concealed weapons permit. It was comforting to have the weight of that .45 when I delivered newspapers at 530 am in a crime ridden town. Right now, our home defense also includes two large dogs with big teeth and a good dose of healthy paranoia. You may never have to use it, but having them in the house means that you should know the law if you do, and if not, you will be able to safely secure a weapon if the need ever arises. 85% of the course is safety, 10% is law, and the other 5% is misc. Besides, My Lord finds it pleasurable to watch me handle my weapons. He likes to watch me clean them. A woman who can handle a gun is sexy to a man. Why else would gun dealers use pictures of models in US flag bikinis armed with an AK-47 on the covers of the catalogs and on their websites? It's sexy. If your man would like you to do this, you might try seeing it as an opportunity to learn something new and grow as a person. It will also help you to protect your family, and understand an important issue more fully. That's just my .02.

IronBear -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 10:27:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: msterfixer Knowledge is power, armed knowledge is survival. I am new to being armed, I can wait to use it. What the difference between that and say learning judo. I own a gun and know how to use it. I wouldn't think twice about protecting anyone that I deemed in danger. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. BadOne One of the issues in Australia and certainly here in Queensland BadOne, is that whilse you may under either the Criminal Code or the Police Act, be Ok or even sanctioned to use force to defend youreself or anyone under your care, the sale little pillock whosxe nose or arm you have broken will probably using Civil Law sue you for every penny you have. It is accepted in Law Enforcement circles that it is by far better to testify at the Corener's Court than in your own defence in a Civil Court. Iron Bear Master of Bruin Cottage My Life for my Queen My Soul for my Goddess My Heart for my Lady And my Honor for myself "I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)

stormgirl -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/14/2008 11:41:50 PM)
one of the things i have thought about is, is it more dangerous to have a gun in the house if you (or i) will not use it to shoot someone than it is to be unarmed? i think so because the feared person could find the gun, Or there could be an accident. this is a difficult thing, your decision, because both of how you feel about it and potential actual risks. you say you feel okay about it so thats that. i hope i would not do something i was asked to do that had potential risks i was uncomfortable about. i have done many times, and not in Ds relationships!

ownedgirlie -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/15/2008 12:36:31 AM)
First, I loved what Stephan said on this topic and agree. Second, I grew up in a "guns are bad" household, also. I feared them, hated them, didn't want anything to do with them. Absolute values against them based on how I was raised. Then, at 18, I moved into a home as a roommate to the husband/wife homeowners. After I had been there a month or so, they said "We think it's time we tell you, we keep a loaded gun in the house." I told them thanks, but I had no interest in it, didn't want to see it, didn't want to know where it is, etc. Then curiosity got the best of me and I wanted to see it. They unloaded it and let me see it, touch it, hold it. I was afraid of it. I hated it. Then I thought, if there's a loaded gun in the house, I should know where it is, so I asked and they told me. Well then I thought, if there's a loaded gun in the house and I know where it is, I should know how to use it, so I don't panic some day and make a terrible mistake. So I signed up at the local community college for Firearms 1-A, which was taught by the city's peace officers. We learned how to handle a gun, how to load it, unload it, about the safety, how to disassemble and assemble, and finally, how to shoot. And here's the thing, after becoming knowledgable on the subject and actually experiencing the process, there was nothing to fear. Guns are not bad, but bad people use them. Becoming educated and learning not only how to shoot but proper philosophies behind shooting changed my whole belief system about guns. I no longer embraced what I had been indoctrinated with, but I formulated my own thoughts and opinions about it. Truth is, I came to love shooting and ended up taking Level 4 advanced firearms training. My lesson? An open mind and educating myself lead to my own informed set of values. Regarding being required to do something against personal values, yes I have been required to do that on a few occasions, for reasons that were important enough to him to require that of me. It is my philosophy that his will always supersedes mine. I am allowed to present my concerns about something, but his decision is his decision, and his values take priority over my own. In some cases, my concerns provided him with enough information that he changed his mind. In those other cases, he has sometimes helped me overcome my struggle with his requirement, while other times left it up to me to grown and overcome it.

IronBear -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/15/2008 1:45:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stormgirl one of the things i have thought about is, is it more dangerous to have a gun in the house if you (or i) will not use it to shoot someone than it is to be unarmed? i think so because the feared person could find the gun, Or there could be an accident. SNIP One of the things I've taught people and especially Sedcurity Officers is *"If you carry or have a gun you must be prepared to use it."* Often carfrying a gun is more of a hassel that not carrying one because you have to "defend" the gun making sure that it doesn't get into the wrong hands, if you won't use it then don't carry or have it where it can become a risk to life. Iron Bear Master of Bruin Cottage My Life for my Queen My Soul for my Goddess My Heart for my Lady And my Honor for myself "I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)

MrSuperior -> RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences (3/15/2008 1:51:43 AM)
Mr. Superior says: Be true to yourself! If that means you need to put his needs over yours, don't hesitate! Mr. Superior believes that when you know yourself, the rest falls into place!

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