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Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 11:28:44 AM

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/7/2008
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I love and adore my Owner terribly. It mortifies me when I cannot find the inner resources to endure his methods.

Almost all of our interactions take the following structure:
Set Up - something generous or kind to catch me off guard.
Punch Number One - something sadistic and cruel to devistate me.
Punch Number Two - something to remind me that he will always have fun despite me.

I will give a semi-fictionalized example. We go on a rare date to a fun music club. He asks me out on the dance floor, where I am in heaven in his arms. At the end, he insults my dancing, then spends the rest of the evening flirting with another woman whom he has informed me he would love to fuck all night. (I have never been subject to this type of passion with him.)

I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out. When I tell him how much this type of thing hurts me, he scoffs and makes it seem like I am complaining that he doesn't fuck me enough.

Is there something I am mentally not doing that I am crying nearly every day? I know I am supposed to be all about him, but I feel like a prizefighter that has been knocked to the ground unconcious. Is there some kind of positive mental training I can give myself to not get "knocked out" and accept that I deserve this, without falling apart and feeling paralyzed?

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 11:32:46 AM

Posts: 2045
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From: Washington, DC area
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without really knowing much of your situation, from what you've said here...

maybe you're not cut out to be a slave?
maybe you're just not being treated well?
maybe he isn't for you?
the 'master' should be worthy of the slave that is going to take such treatment... seems like he might not be...

again, I don't know you or your situation...

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 11:39:58 AM

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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He is an emotional sadist; you are not an emotional masochist. I have no words of wisdom to help you stay. The things that you said that I find very revealing are:

1. I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out.

I call bullshit on that one. You are a PERSON first.

2. When I tell him how much this type of thing hurts me, he scoffs and makes it seem like I am complaining that he doesn't fuck me enough.

You are telling him he is hurting your feelings and not only is he not hearing you, he is dismissing you AND your feelings.

3. I am crying nearly every day and accept that I deserve this,

If you are crying every day about something, then it is certainly not healthy for you. And you don't "deserve" someone treating you like dirt unless you WANT to be treated like dirt.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 11:55:14 AM

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A good slave makes sure that whatever will be dished out will be fulfilling to who they are. If any slave could be happy with any master, then they'd just pick the first one they happened across. It's not bad to decide to say no to a particular relationship.

So my question is- did you know what you were getting into and know it would fulfill you, or did you just say yes and then figure you'd find out exactly what you were saying yes to and work on how to deal with it later?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 12:04:35 PM

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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You can call yourself whatever you like, as can he, but treating people like crap is not a very domly trait, imo.
I'd be so outta there, he'd wonder if I ever really existed.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 12:10:59 PM

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Joined: 1/11/2008
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You say you love and adore your master terribly. Why do you love and adore someone who treats you in a manner which makes you cry nearly every day? What is it he gives you that makes you adore him? Is that enough to outweigh the emotional sadism it sounds like he enjoys? It would be different if you enjoyed that sort of thing, but since you don't, you have to figure out what it is that is making you stay.

Love may not be enough to cement this relationship if you are both on different wavelengths with what you've described. Being a slave doesn't mean you shouldn't be fulfilled and happy - but that means finding the right master to fit your needs.

If you do decide to stay, I have no idea how to get over the fact that he makes you feel worthless and deserving of his scorn so that you feel ridiculed and demeaned. It's just something you'll have to accept if you stay with him, because he's not open to change. Can you turn yourself off emotionally, not letting his words get to you? Can you somehow emotionally disconnect with those words and only see the positive in the relationship so that you are not crying and sad so much?

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 12:40:49 PM

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From: Apple County NY
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You need something he isn't capable of giving you; caring, kindness and respect. The longer you stay with him, the more browbeaten you will be. He's emotionally abusing you. Since you're not an emotional masochist and have not consented to this, it's abuse. It's making you weaker, not stronger.

If you want to stay with him, and god knows why you would based on what you say, then the very next time he does this yell red in a loud voice. Tell him you're not telling him again that you will not agree to this and go home. When he calls you up and starts yelling at you about how he can do anything, hang up. Do not accept treatment that you do not want. Because the more you take it, the more he will continue. Your call.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Bound2One)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 1:00:33 PM

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I have a rule for my sub "Protect yourself, even from me if need be". He is my most precious possession, why would I want to do something that was tearing him apart as a person? I wouldn't. It sounds to me like that he is indeed an emotional sadist, now he needs an emotional masochist to hook up with. It maybe time for you to move on.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 4:39:25 PM

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*sound of the door slamming on my way out*

let's say it toghether folks...'love is a bed or roses, just watch out for the pricks.'

_____________________________

I am stronger than yesterday

(in reply to Lashra)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 5:11:36 PM

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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Yesterday on "The Slave Register," there was a question about "considerate" versus "cruel" dominants. Raven Kaldera, a well-known author in BDSM circles, wrote a response that included the following quotes:

"I would like to believe that I am very good to Joshua. That's mostly because I know that if you want a complex and expensive tool to run at top form, you have to take good care of it and maintain it well. I have no interest in breaking him with my demands; I need him functioning well."

"There are different sorts of cruelty. The kind that really makes me uncomfortable is the sort that seems completely concerned with petty cruelty - Joshua calls it "dicking the sub around". Putting them in no-win predicaments, setting them up for failure and ridiculing them, making them struggle to no avail, making them work hard at something only to have their efforts undone, etc. This sort of thing is done with only the entertainment of the dominant as its purpose, but it seems that all too often that isn't made clear - because the dominant does not want to admit to it, and/or it's more satisfying when the submissive is taking it seriously and thinks that their efforts may actually make a difference.

This sort of thing is especially damaging to service-oriented submissives, and worst of all for service subs who are "positional" types and see good service as bound up with their identities. Control-oriented subs have a much better time getting off on this sort of thing. It would be much more ethical if it was just laid out that way - "You're entertainment, I like seeing you suffer, just do your best and see suffering prettily as service to me." But even so it would be hard for them, and they might end up with self-esteem problems if they received no aid from the dominant in learning to reframe and cope with it.
Another similar sort of dishonest petty cruelty is when a dominant uses a punishment context largely for the purpose of combining sadism with the emotional satisfaction of righteous indignation, instead of any real thought as to whether it's the best thing for actually changing behavior. Again, it would be better if it was up front and honest, but that would probably take away the fun for the dominant in question. We've stated before that you can tell a lot about someone by giving them a person that they could do anything with, and seeing what it is that they do. So many dominant types seem to want to use a submissive as someone that they can be a jerk to without having to admit that's what they're doing.

I really, really despise pettiness. If I'm going to be cruel, I'm going to be cleanly and straight-out cruel in a Big Way. No dicking around, no pretend justification. Since it is not always ethically possible to indulge this, it is a great gift when the circumstances are right and it can happen. Worth waiting for.

Some subs are put off by sensing cruelty in a dominant. Some aren't. Joshua is turned on, and drawn near, by knowing I have a cruel and sadistic streak. On the other hand, he doesn't like being dicked around, so knowing that I didn't fritter out my sadism in that way made him feel paradoxically safe with me. He knows that when I'm cruel to him, it isn't about him or his performance or worth as my boy. It's all about me, cleanly and clearly so, and he can handle that better emotionally, being one of those positional uber-service-oriented types."
-Raven Kaldera

I just thought this was perfectly appropriate to address your situation. Wise words indeed.................luci

~A few short parts were edited out for brevity and clarity and the red emphasis is mine~

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 3/16/2008 5:12:39 PM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 5:16:43 PM

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Joined: 5/28/2007
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Excellent post, luci!!

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to slaveluci)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 6:01:22 PM

Noah

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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A good slave makes sure that ...

Now that you've made it clear to her that she doesn't meet the criteria for a Good Slave rating, I suppose her daily crying will be attended by less cognitive dissonance.

My attempts at submission keep leaving me feeling terrible. But of course they would. As the expert lady on the internet explained to me, I'm not a Good Slave. It all makes so much sense now.

Can we try to use some discretion with bullshit language like "good slave", especially when attempting to counsel noobs?

To the OP: if you'd like someone less judgemental to talk to about emotional sadomasochism and ways in which you might or might not want to process the feelings that go with it, feel free to write me in CollarMe email. I can put you in touch with some women who will understand where you are now and who wll probably be able to offer both empathy and insight. Further, they will attempt this without publicly tearing either you or your beloved partner down, "for your own good."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 6:23:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aladybug

I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out. When I tell him how much this type of thing hurts me, he scoffs and makes it seem like I am complaining that he doesn't fuck me enough.

I'd disagree with that actually. Pretty strongly.

quote:

Is there something I am mentally not doing that I am crying nearly every day? I know I am supposed to be all about him, but I feel like a prizefighter that has been knocked to the ground unconcious. Is there some kind of positive mental training I can give myself to not get "knocked out" and accept that I deserve this, without falling apart and feeling paralyzed?

IMHO, this sounds like the examples I was given for emotional abuse back in high school. Here is some mental training for you - "I deserve a owner, not an abuser pretending to be a owner". Repeat it over and over until you believe it. There is a huge difference between the two and sadly, there are a lot of abusers pretending that their is abuse is merely BDSM.

Now, on the chance that I'm wrong and he is simply a very heavy emotional sadist... you still don't sound like a good match for him. There are women who thrive off the sort of thing he's handing out. Making a "vanilla" relationship work is a lot harder than pairing any two "vanilla" folks who happen to be of the right sexuality together, don't expect d/s relationships to be any easier. You still have to find the right sort of partner for you. I know it's hard. but good luck.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 6:52:55 PM

SinergyNstrumpet

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Joined: 2/26/2008
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In the end if you are happy with this treatment, or it fulfills you in some way, you should take Noah up on his offer of support with less public exposure because I can tell you, as you may already see, many of us cannot counsel emotional masochists.

Some people are into that sort of thing, and if you are, then you have found the master for you. If you aren't happy with this, it makes you feel crushed, and you see nothing redeemable in this sort of relationship... not all master/dominant sorts are emotional sadists and as LA stated... it is up to you to know what you find fulfilling for you.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide. I do have a streak of emotional masochism in me, but I consider that to be a part of me I would like to part company with and I have had much success with that. Other people are happy that way, not judging it, but even if you are an emotional masochist that doesn't mean you have to remain one if it makes you miserable....

julia

< Message edited by SinergyNstrumpet -- 3/16/2008 6:53:35 PM >

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 6:59:56 PM

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Joined: 2/11/2007
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In my opinion, this is not a Dom it is a creep.

To keep a sub wrongfooted I feel is great, and of course humiliation is a way of life for many. But in this case it is a case of bullying rather than Mastering. A bully is not worthy of a slave or sub, unless it is what they crave.

A real Dom will know instinctively how to Master their sub, and not need to resort to what I view as pathetic behaviour.

It is the same difference as hurting and harming a sub, one can be accepted the other is not.

If He was playing with two of you and paid more attention to one and left the other to watch it would be fine in that context, but to act in the way he did shows a person who is too caught up in themself to be worthy of controlling another. If he chastises you over something again it is an acceptable thing, but to insult you on your dancing when he invited you on a 'nilla' date is not acceptable.

It revolves around the context of the situation AS WELL AS the scope of your relationship with Him as to the treatment you will accept and how a Dom should treat His sub.

< Message edited by thefirst121 -- 3/16/2008 7:00:53 PM >

_____________________________

...Sir K...

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 7:12:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

Can we try to use some discretion with bullshit language like "good slave", especially when attempting to counsel noobs?

Nope, I stand by what I said. I've never known a modern consensual slave who was considered good in the long term, by themselves or their master, by not making sure they would be fulfilled in that situation.

She can still be a slave, but not anything I'd consider good.

I don't care if she decides she's going to be fulfilled by eating milk and pork at every meal of every day when she happens to be an orthodox jew- as long as she knows what she's getting into and knows it's right for her.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Noah)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 7:25:49 PM

Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
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Just because one is a slave/sub/bottom does not mean that every Master/Dom/Top is the one for them.

BDSM is not one fit for all. One still needs to find the other half of themselves, the one that will complete and compliment them.

If it was one size fits all there would not be so many forums to find a partner.

I would suggest if this is causing you pain - pain which is not good pain for you then you are with the wrong person.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to aladybug)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 7:32:40 PM

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You might not be cut out for emotional masochism. Not everyoneis. Even when someone is, it has to be done slowly, and you have to be aware and concenting to its introduction into the relationship, or it backfires. Thats what it sounds like has happened with you. He is an emotional sadist, and he enjoys the tormet he puts you through. It does not make you a better slave to ignore how you are feeling by way of this and trying to teach yourself to cope. Thats his job. You have to explain to him that how he is treating you is not working the way he wnats it to, and you do not feel any benefit to the interaction when he acts that way aside from emotionally bereft. HE might be able to help you learn to better deal, and maybe if the tormet becomes less frequent and there are other types of tings added to your relationship you will both find it more fulfilling.

Just a thought
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Owned1)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 8:17:02 PM

MzMia

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Wonderful post luci, this one is worth saving.

People really need to be careful who they deal with in this lifestyle.

But I do think some seek cruelty in a Dominant, where do you draw the line?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to slaveluci)

RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... - 3/16/2008 9:19:54 PM

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Something soundsVERY rwrong with this picture..

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See nic "Kinkypupper" also as "slvseeker" As I cannot reply to any posts or log into collarchat under that name I had to create this profile.

(in reply to aladybug)

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