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RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 7:53:03 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

My neighbor across the street did the same thing last summer. I too was so pissed off. It was a violent, bloody death and he knew his sons would be the first to find him...

We've taken up with their care--my brother, my kids and I--and I hope they will be okay. I do see effects from what they've been through.

This is the concern for us now. It benefits no one to agonize over the one gone...the ones remaining are the only things we can focus our time, attention and care on now.

I wish you and yours well!
It's my opinion that nobody ever really "gets over" that deep a trauma. I didn't have anyone close kill themselves, but I have PTSD 52 years later. Lockit knows a little something about me, and I know a little something about her, but I haven't shared anything like that with you yet. It certainly speaks to your kind heart, helping take care of the Kinder as you are.

Peace, Scott 

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 7:56:27 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Having had several bouts of suicidal ideation, let me assure you that in none of those times did it even occur to me to think about who would find me.


This seems an important point. We seem to be assuming that she deliberately chose to have her son find her when that may not have been the case. Her mind may have been so wrapped around ending the pain of existence that she didn't focus on what would happen after her death.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 8:02:14 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		In a situation like yours:
 
I would remind the son; his mother was not the body that she inhibited, but the energy “life force” that kept it going.
 
Point out all the things that indicated she was miserable, and tell him, she was unable to accept, respect, and be responsible for herself. She did not love herself. And there is no way to make someone love their self, if they choose not to.
 
If I felt angry about it, I would remind myself of the same, and to make sure I was unable to help sufficiently in picking up the mess my friend made, before I accused myself of not being able to.
 
My best,
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 8:10:06 PM   
SinergyNstrumpet


Posts: 305
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		My cousin killed himself a couple of years ago. He left a daughter my son's age.. in fact they were in grade school together.

He was always a happy, charming, wonderfully bright person. I was just thinking of him this morning when I was exercising.

He did not leave a note, no one knew he was depressed, and it was definitely a suicide...he shot himself in the head. I believe a neighbor found him as he lived alone.

It devastated a lot of people, and it still makes me sad.

It is usually thought of as "wrong" to speak ill of the dead, with people that kill themselves it is natural to decry what they did, and almost impossible not to view them as selfish for doing it. I know at points in my life the only thing that kept me going was that it would leave many people permanently scarred if I did something to myself... I did not succumb to those thoughts. I can only say that the inner pain must be so bad that the person just can't bring themselves to consider others. Not only selfish, but self absorbed in their own inner hell.

This lady sounds fucked up in more ways than one. I pity those that she left behind, and I also pity her... leave the world with people thinking your fucked up, that is your lasting impact... how very sad to leave that sort of mark on the world


julia

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 8:14:16 PM   
Luciferica


Posts: 231
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline 		Wow. I work as a funeral director and have seen this situation before. The person is so selfish that they live and eventually die only for themselves. There is nothing you can do and the best revenge is to forget her, she wanted attention even in death. Her son should join a support group or at least openly discuss his feelings ..these might help too:http://www.dignitymemorial.com/DignityMemorial/GriefMgntDM.aspx?id=COR


(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 8:32:18 PM   
yesboy8


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline 		I understand it is easy to place blame on those who commit suicide.
However, a recent study of brain scans of suicidal people versus normal happy people show that suicidal people have a non receptive protien in their brains. The effects are unknown, but it shows that suicidal people have a screwy brain chemistry. As a manic depressive bi polar, i know this feeling all too well. ive gone from the happiest feelings to the most dark and heavy mental state within a moment. i think about killing myself every day.  However i have a question to ask you all: is it just as selfish for a younger person to do this? the only thing that holds me back sometimes are the reactions of my friends and family. people who know me would never guess im this way. : /

(in reply to Luciferica)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 8:39:51 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You folks are awful hard on this girl... depression changes people...actually changes their minds... They can't see beyond their pain. They often believe others would be better off if they were gone. To them, in taking their own life, they are doing the ones they love a favor.

Just help all involved realize this poor girl was mentally ill and forgive her and most of all themselves.

Butch

(in reply to Luciferica)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 8:44:42 PM   
Luciferica


Posts: 231
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline 		It's selfish no matter whom you are, and your family should stop you, I've seen whole families torn asunder and blame passed like a hot potato, imagine a funeral where everyone is blaming everyone else and themselves for a loss and remember that if you love a single other human being, it's a cold place to leave them in.

(in reply to yesboy8)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 9:04:06 PM   
Pyrrsefanie


Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You folks are awful hard on this girl... depression changes people...actually changes their minds... They can't see beyond their pain. They often believe others would be better off if they were gone. To them, in taking their own life, they are doing the ones they love a favor.

Just help all involved realize this poor girl was mentally ill and forgive her and most of all themselves.


I agree that the only way anyone involved will find peace is to forgive her for what she's done...

However, when I was suicidal, I was entirely selfish.  My theory wasn't that I was doing them a favor by leaving, more that they were being selfish bastards for keeping me alive while I was suffering, and finally landed somewhere around "You'll be sorry.  You'll all be sorry."

The reasonings are different for everyone.  We have no way of knowing what her state of mind was at the time that she did the deed.

Regardless, anger is a normal part of the grieving process, and for sanity's sake should not be discouraged in the people who have been affected by her decision.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 9:58:58 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You folks are awful hard on this girl... depression changes people...actually changes their minds... They can't see beyond their pain. They often believe others would be better off if they were gone. To them, in taking their own life, they are doing the ones they love a favor.

Just help all involved realize this poor girl was mentally ill and forgive her and most of all themselves.


I agree that the only way anyone involved will find peace is to forgive her for what she's done...

However, when I was suicidal, I was entirely selfish.  My theory wasn't that I was doing them a favor by leaving, more that they were being selfish bastards for keeping me alive while I was suffering, and finally landed somewhere around "You'll be sorry.  You'll all be sorry."

The reasonings are different for everyone.  We have no way of knowing what her state of mind was at the time that she did the deed.

Regardless, anger is a normal part of the grieving process, and for sanity's sake should not be discouraged in the people who have been affected by her decision.



I’m so glad you are still with us...The point I am making is looking back you understand how to others your actions were selfish...but at that time you were not thinking as you are today. In your own words you thought they were the selfish ones for keeping you alive.

You had a different perspective...a different mindset... you were not seeing with the eyes and feeling with the same heart you have today.


Butch


(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/18/2008 10:46:12 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for the information about the scarcity of suicide notes, Pyrrsefanie and dcnovice.
 
When I had "died" and was maximally depressed and crazy as a nut as a child, I wanted to end my life as well, but I stayed for my many siblings whom I loved. It was tough. Then I received a new kind of life and got even crazier and in some ways that was even worse.
 
I did some research on suicides some years ago for my still unfinished book about the main cause of most chronic diseases, as suicide is one such disease, and learned that nearly all suicides indeed are brain damaged.

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 12:53:38 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Rule,

Thank you... but my son died and was brought back.  He lives brain damaged now and I am his caregiver.  I still have the joys of having him with me, seeing his face, loving him... but also the pain of knowing he is a child in a man's body and worry over him when I am gone.

He harmed a lot of people with his action, but like others have said... he was not right in his mind and was using drugs to medicate his pain.  No matter how anyone looks at this... it is something our mental health community needs to do a better job at.  We had one guy in town try to kill himself 26 time, all violent.  No one would commit him.  My son was put in hospital and they wouldn't hold him for a day and a half after three attempts in two weeks.  Six hours after he was released... he did it.

I'm glad you are doing better!

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 1:41:14 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yesboy8

I understand it is easy to place blame on those who commit suicide.
However, a recent study of brain scans of suicidal people versus normal happy people show that suicidal people have a non receptive protien in their brains. The effects are unknown, but it shows that suicidal people have a screwy brain chemistry. As a manic depressive bi polar, i know this feeling all too well. ive gone from the happiest feelings to the most dark and heavy mental state within a moment. i think about killing myself every day.  However i have a question to ask you all: is it just as selfish for a younger person to do this? the only thing that holds me back sometimes are the reactions of my friends and family. people who know me would never guess im this way. : /

Do you have a link to that study? I'd really like to read it. Maybe things would start to make a little more sense to me.

There's a woman on another site who has my address and phone number, who suffers from suicidal ideation. She says she has  a Dom, but it doesn't look like he is doing her much good. She knows my house is hers, and I'll do everything I can to help her past any crisis she may have. I wish I could do more for her, and some others that are struggling, but I can only give what is accepted.

I don't have any answers at all for your questions. If you need to let it out, jsut email me here, and I'll send you my phone number. Peace and Happiness, Scott

(in reply to yesboy8)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 9:27:35 AM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Luciferica

It's selfish no matter whom you are, and your family should stop you, I've seen whole families torn asunder and blame passed like a hot potato, imagine a funeral where everyone is blaming everyone else and themselves for a loss and remember that if you love a single other human being, it's a cold place to leave them in.


I do not understand why you would blame one person for other peoples actions, the fact that they are deceased, is even more puzzling.
 
There is no glory in that type of departure, and in essence, they have thrown it all away.
 
My last long term, non-D/s, relationship, was with a man who at around 27, got to walk out onto the porch he shared with the girlfriend before me; to find her laying on the porch after shooting herself in the head.
 
She had just gotten her first DUI.
 
He tells an interesting story about calling 911 and having to tell them “I can’t give her mouth to mouth; she has no face; I can only find an ear.”
 
I do not see him often anymore. I don’t stop at his house, because I never know how much he has had to drink, and one of his favorite pass times when he is that way, is to pick fights with me.
 
Occasionally I get a call from the PD, wanting me to go pick him up; drunk. If I can, I do. I sometimes wonder if I should just let him sit there.
 
He has mentioned ending it for himself, also, it is hard for me; knowing what a great guy he is, and that he just can’t see it; he blames himself. For that, and so much more he had no control over.
 
He didn’t make her squeeze the trigger, she isn’t blaming him for it now, and I have no idea how to get him to see himself as the walking corpse he has become; nor the potential that is still available, if he would just try.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Luciferica)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 11:43:08 AM   
postulant


Posts: 32
Joined: 12/14/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Ya know...

I know suicide.  My youngest sister committed suicide.  It's been almost one year since my 18-year-old nephew committed suicide.  I've been suicidal.  More than once.  I have been trained and worked for a suicide prevention/crisis center!

During one particularly bad depressive episode several years ago, I found myself mentally composing a letter to my son to be read when he was older.  Explaining why I had killed myself.  How much I loved him and how much he was wanted and how he had brought joy and peace and helped to heal wounds he would never even know had existed.

And I'm thinking about how wonderful this kid is and how blessed I am to be his mother and how I would move heaven and earth to protect him from pain, yet here I am planning to abandon him.  How the fuck could I do that to him?  Not only leave him motherless, but always wondering if I loved him and why he wasn't enough to make me want to stay alive.  Thank God I had a moment of clarity.  I swore to myself then that no matter how bad things ever got, I would NEVER do that to him.

Not everyone is as fortunate.  When you have no hope left, and if you haven't been there you cannot begin to imagine how truly awful that feels, you often can't think ahead to tomorrow let alone a month or a year from now.  Comprehending the full consequences of your actions is impossible because all you have is that pain and that sadness and that helplessness and even rage and for fuck's sake if killing myself is what it will take to make it stop then enough already!

In my case, I always thought that I would actually be doing everyone a favor by removing myself from the picture.  I was such a pain-in-the-ass, always whining and imposing with the whole "depression" thing, they must be sick of it by now but didn't want to say so!

It's natural to feel anger at those that die anyway, but especially those that take their own life.  It's such a waste and why couldn't they see that things would get better?  Why didn't they call me or why weren't they strong enough to just hold on one more day? 

But people lose sight of hope.  Their mind stops working the way a healthy mind works.  Maybe I'm odd (okay, definitely I'm odd, but that's not the point!) but I've been able to find some peace in that.

My heart breaks for children that have to survive the suicide of a parent.  And it infuriates me when I hear that a poor kid was the one that discovered their parent.  For fuck's sake, could you not have taken some measure to protect your child at least once more before you leave them?!  But as we know, they're not thinking rationally, unfortunately.  All we can do is console and comfort and reassure that it wasn't the child's fault and they are worthy, etc.

p.


_____________________________

the only thing I'll ever ask of you
you gotta promise not to stop when I say "when"

"How much can you know about yourself, you've never been in a fight? I don't wanna die without any scars."

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 1:30:10 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		so many sad and uplifting stories.....thanks to all

i guess i am a heartless bitch, because even after reading all of these replies, even after telling me that i have fought depression and panic at times and i wouldnt want anyone judging me for having those problems....all the reasoning i have tried to do with me over the past few hours.......i still come back to that selfish bitch.  how could she.

ill never know what was in her head, but i do know how many tried to help her, how she refused help and thrived on drama.  i just deleted a list of the drama she caused cause now it doesnt really matter at all.

but she will forever be, in my mind at least, one selfish fucking bitch.  and im really ok with that now.

i am glad others found their way back from the darkness of suicide.  and i applaud the strength of you, postulant, for realizing the importance of your child.

thanks again to all that shared stories about this horrible thing.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to postulant)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 1:41:49 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hey SeeksOnlyOne,

I really feel for you!  Not pity or anything like that... but more an understanding of where you are and how you feel!  It doesn't matter really which way we go in all this.  It only matters that we get through it.  The anger may always be there, but the intensity will dim.  I don't know you and I don't know what would help with this or if anything will... I can only hope you find something.

We shared our experiences maybe for many reasons, but I know that most of us were most likely just trying to say... we understand a bit and we wish there was something we could do to help.  Hang in there... and keep talking... I think that is the one thing that actually helped most in my families situation.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 1:50:20 PM   
mzbehavin


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		My thoughts and prayers are with you and her son. May the healing, once it begins... be thorough~
Within and beyond. xoxo

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: a rant, maybe a rave, or maybe just me being a bitch - 3/19/2008 3:21:17 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		i have wanted to die.   things do bounce back tho.  i have wanted to escape as well. 

i concluded the world is stuck with me.   the good the bad and the ugly that i am.   

(in reply to mzbehavin)
Profile   Post #: 39
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