Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant

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Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 3:51:46 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
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After weeks and weeks of turmoil, our bathroom as finally done. There was no wonderboard under the floor tile (as per contract). The pedestal for the sink was crooked. The bathtub spout was crooked. The floor tile didn't even boast a finished edge (just raw thinset and tile peeping up over hardword floor). The worst part, the shower valve was installed wrong. After we complained, they went in through an adjacent bedroom closet to get at the valve (rather than tear out the tile they'd already laid) and tried to fix it. It at least looks better, but I still don't think it's installed properly. To top it all off, they put a 2' X 2' hole in the closet wall and nailed cardboard up over the hole - and now they're done.

I did some checking around and found our that, at minimum:

They needed a permit for plumbing;
They needed a permit for electrical;
A licensed plumber had to do the plumbing;
A licensed electrician had to do the electrical;
Putting tile over untreated plywood is substandard anywhere in the US

I know they had no permits because there were no inspections. The guy who did everything but the tile work could not have been both a plumber and an electrician, and I'm beginning to doubt he was licensed as either. We did our homework. I checked out everything. A member of BBB, no unresolved complaints, licensed and insured (to do tile anyway).

I've paid one half a $12,000 bill for a 5' X 8' bathroom remodel (that did not include tub, sink and toilet, which we purchased separately), and I'm not going to pay anymore - I don't think. Not to them anyway (but I think it would be a good idea to have plumbing inspected - YIKES). So, I'm going to get sued or I'm going to sue someone, or both. And all we wanted was a nice bathroom.

People really suck sometimes. :(

Post #: 1

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 3:55:16 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

mums the word on permits. YOU - if you were in my town- would eat the fine.

i know how exhausting construction is. i just put word out i want my worker to came back. im tired of dangling things.

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 2

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 3:57:19 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
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quote:

mums the word on permits. YOU - if you were in my town- would eat the fine.

That just sucks.

Fine, I'll pay the fine. I'm not paying the boneheads who didn't get the permit. And I'm reporting them too - to everyone I can think of reporting them to ... crap, I feel like an idiot. I tried very hard to cover ever base.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 3

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:00:54 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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This is one of the reasons why we never hire anyone to do any work in our home. We just remodeled a 7X12 bathroom. All new toilet, sink, sink base. We had a huge jacuzzi tub that was like new from an older bathroom remodel and used that. All new tile, new wood floor and fixtures. Did all of the work ourselves and final cost was under two grand and the entire project was completed in under two weeks from demolition to finish. Sorry you ran into so many problems...this tends to happen when the housing sales market takes a dump. People remodel and contractors have them by the balls.

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RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:03:25 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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-- maybe u were screwed- i dont know. i regret arguing with a worker over a washer hook up. maybe a matter of $20. as a result he has refused any work to me. at the time i 'won"- but later when my pipe burst i could not even ask him...

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 5

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:04:37 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
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Thanks, Aileen. I have learned that even with pronounced lack of knowledge and skill, we'd probably do a better job ourselves because we care about what we're doing. We wouldn't have made the same mistakes (if you can call those mistakes).

Thanks though. We've a kitchen to go yet, and I'd rather muddle through newbie know-nothing stuff than go through this again.

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 6

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:06:56 PM

TracyTaken

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Joined: 2/1/2008
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quote:

-- maybe u were screwed- i dont know.

As far as I know from my days in law offices, if the contract wasn't legal, it doesn't hold. If the workers weren't licensed and no permit was secured, the work wasn't legal - the contract isn't either. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect that's the way it would pan out.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 7

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:08:38 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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Home Depot, and most lumber yards for that matter, will walk you through just about any job that you tackle. There is a wealth of free knowledge out there. The cost of most jobs is the labor, not the supplies. If you can do the work then you can save a tremendous amount of money, have quality control over the job and walk away feeling great because you did the job yourself.

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RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:11:21 PM

Level

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Tracy, there are some decent books that you can buy that will help ya'll do it yourselves, and some places like Lowes have employees that can give you tips.

I have a lady friend, that hired a couple of guys to do some work on a rent house, and they did maybe half the job and took off..... then she hired another guy, who talked a great game, and he did the exact same thing to her. So, being a good friend (and a dumbass), I volunteered to help her with some work. We tore down a crappy porch, and build a damned nice one, and we replaced a window...... now, that window will likely survive a direct nuclear strike, we worked our asses off on it, but it took forever A good part of a summer, and we'd probably still be working on it, except for some timely advice from a guy at Lowes.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 9

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:25:47 PM

seeksfemslave

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Joined: 6/16/2006
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I hope a small claims court exists in which you can sue the barstards for a properly completed job or your mony back with interest.

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 10

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:30:48 PM

slavejaredmtl

Posts: 15
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline

now not all construction guys are like that we take care of our customers fro future reference. If you want a good tip if you find a good worker then ask him if he knows any other guys

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 11

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:33:52 PM

CalifChick

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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I'm confused... was it no underlayment even though it was specified in the contract, or was it no underlayment because it was NOT specified in the contract? How is it that you didn't notice before it was grouted, but you know about it now? Were the finished edges specified in the contract? You know all that floor tile has to come out, right? My ex does plumbing/tile/flooring, and he gets tons of work from having to fix jobs just like yours. Make sure you make a complaint with the licensing board in your state. And check with an attorney; in many cases you have to give the contractor a chance (even just one chance) to fix a problem before you can hire someone else to fix it and expect the judge to order the first contractor to pay for it.

Cali

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 12

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:39:59 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I'm confused... was it no underlayment even though it was specified in the contract, or was it no underlayment because it was NOT specified in the contract? How is it that you didn't notice before it was grouted, but you know about it now? Were the finished edges specified in the contract?

I knew the day that I came home and found the tile laid right over the board. I called, they assured me it would be fine.

quote:

You know all that floor tile has to come out, right?

It's worse than that. We have chair rail tile that makes a wainscoat, and the tile on the wall that borders the floor matches the wainscoat. Sucks.

quote:

My ex does plumbing/tile/flooring, and he gets tons of work from having to fix jobs just like yours.

I've come to realize that what happened to us is not uncommon.

quote:

Make sure you make a complaint with the licensing board in your state. And check with an attorney; in many cases you have to give the contractor a chance (even just one chance) to fix a problem before you can hire someone else to fix it and expect the judge to order the first contractor to pay for it.

See, after the hole in the closet, and given the complications of it all, I don't think I want them back in my bathroom. Maybe I have to give them the chance, but I don't want to. It's probably smarter to let them try, I know. They are going to hate us now though.

Thanks for your input.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 13

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:40:11 PM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

Thanks, Aileen. I have learned that even with pronounced lack of knowledge and skill, we'd probably do a better job ourselves because we care about what we're doing. We wouldn't have made the same mistakes (if you can call those mistakes).

Unfortunately, that is true more often than not... Actually giving a damn about a job that you perform for someone else (pride in workmanship) is all but a myth. Fortunately, most home improvement stuff isn't brain surgery. Do your research, come up with a plan, try to set things up in such a way that you don't need to rush through the job. Keep in mind that while you may screw some things up, you can usually do the job twice for what it would cost to have a contractor do it... and the odds that they'd actually do it to your satisfaction are slim. And buy quality tools.

i've taught myself plumbing, carpentry, electrical, drywall, auto repair... in ten years, the only things i've paid someone else to do for me are medical care (and i could probably have done a better job of that myself if it weren't for all the damned laws), changing car tires, and repairing my septic system (couldn't figure out a reasonable way to get a thousand gallons of sewage out of the tank without hiring a pro)... and i'm about as sharp as a bag of wet hair. Most of these things just LOOK really complicated and mysterious until you start digging into them.

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 14

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 4:49:41 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

I would really like to know why you didn't make sure they're licensed before hiring them. It's a simple thing to do and you could have saved yourself a lot of hardhship. I'mnot saying that this is all your fault, they obviously have no idea what they were doing, all i'm saying is that i wouldn't let someone touch my place without being sure that i was hiring someone who is at least competant.

My bro-in-law does this sort of work and there is no way he would have done this sort of job. Not only that but he leaves the place cleaner than he found it. For the stuff he doesn't know how to do, he subcontracts to some guys who do just as good a job, but yes it is possible for a reno guy to know how to do many things, especially if he's on his own.

Phoenix

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(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 15

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 5:01:23 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

I'm in the process of having a bunch of small improvements done on my home right now.

So far, the guy and his helper have done a fabulous job of everything from plumbing repairs, to sheetrock repairs, cabinets, painting, and some masonry, and they are getting it done very quickly too. My only problem with this guy was getting him to actually show up. I have been paying him in increments as I see each job getting done satisfactorily. He came recommended from my realtor who has known him for some 20 years.

I think the most important thing is to always go with a recommendation. If you just pull some jamoke out of the classifieds, god only knows what you're going to get.
Sounds like your guys are butchering the whole thing. I'd not pay them another cent, and start asking around if friends or relatives can recommend someone to you.

Good luck!

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marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 16

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 5:02:42 PM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I'm in the process of having a bunch of small improvements done on my home right now.

So far, the guy and his helper have done a fabulous job of everything from plumbing repairs, to sheetrock repairs, cabinets, painting, and some masonry, and they are getting it done very quickly too. My only problem with this guy was getting him to actually show up. I have been paying him in increments as I see each job getting done satisfactorily. He came recommended from my realtor who has known him for some 20 years.

I think the most important thing is to always go with a recommendation. If you just pull some jamoke out of the classifieds, god only knows what you're going to get.
Sounds like your guys are butchering the whole thing. I'd not pay them another cent, and start asking around if friends or relatives can recommend someone to you.

Good luck!

You blew them didn't you? You slut.

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(in reply to marieToo)

Post #: 17

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 5:05:01 PM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
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quote:

I would really like to know why you didn't make sure they're licensed before hiring them. It's a simple thing to do and you could have saved yourself a lot of hardhship. I'mnot saying that this is all your fault, they obviously have no idea what they were doing, all i'm saying is that i wouldn't let someone touch my place without being sure that i was hiring someone who is at least competant.

The company I hired is licensed, bonded and insured and has been in this valley for 15 years. The guy who did my work ... I'm thinking he was not a licensed plumber. Obviously, they didn't get permits, so what to make of that?

I couldn't have researched the company more thoroughly. The people they sent to do the work ... well.

You'd have to be in a boom town to know what it's like. People are making a lot of money, and they are making it as fast as they possibly can because we all know: THE BUST IS COMING. It's the way it works.

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 18

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 5:08:38 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

I hope a small claims court exists in which you can sue the barstards for a properly completed job or your mony back with interest.

Yep we have small claims court here, and it's a fucking joke. I have a $900.00 judgment against someone now, and I am not holding my breath on collecting it. Two months after I got my judgment against her, someone got a $5000 judgment on her for the same thing. The courts don't do anything when it comes to collection. They issue a judgment, and you have to collect it. It does go on their credit report, but if they already had shitty credit to begin with....What do they care?

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 19

RE: Why I Hate Construction People - A Rant - 3/19/2008 5:15:32 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:

mums the word on permits. YOU - if you were in my town- would eat the fine.

That just sucks.

Fine, I'll pay the fine. I'm not paying the boneheads who didn't get the permit. And I'm reporting them too - to everyone I can think of reporting them to ... crap, I feel like an idiot. I tried very hard to cover ever base.

Yeah, well, don't go whipping out your checkbook just yet. Different jurisdictions have different requirements for remodel construction. In my county, a permit isn't required unless new electrical or plumbing is done (new means adding new circuits or plumbing). Most jurisdictions have all that stuff online nowadays.

Moving right along, I am going to exclaim: 12K for a 40 sq. ft. bathroom re-do? OMFG. NEW construction is less than half that.
http://www.saylor.com/lacosts/ I am sorry.

Aileen did it the right way. I mean, think about it; morons who can't add two and two are building and remodeling. The average person can go to the library and get a few books, go to HD and take a couple classes, buy a few GOOD tools, and you're ready to rock. (I've had a little experience. I have completely remodelled (down to the studs) a 2800 sq. ft house (granite countertops, Jacuzzi tub, glass block shower, hardwoods/tile, maple cabinets, marble floor in Master bath (which can be slippery), and other goodies), a 900 sq. ft. condo, and partially remodelled 3 others, including mine. Also re-landscaped 3 houses, including mine). Most of this stuff is just so damned easy.

Might want to chat with a lawyer. You have my sympathy.

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 20

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