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RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 7:33:12 PM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
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quote:

Granted there are variances of what constitutes each gender,


Hi Archer,

Seems to me you've just answered your own question. And I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't saying there is no difference between what is viewed as stereotypical masculine and feminine expression. What I am saying is, as you have noted, there are variances (butches and femmes of both genders) and that in my opinion, a male-identified man who cross-dresses or in some other way expresses the feminine in his life is no less masculine than a man who does not...and this opinion is simply based upon my own personal experience in knowing these kinds of men. Just the same as a female-identified butch to me is no less feminine than a lipstick lesbian...just a tad more butch. There are just too many ways to express gender to lock ourselves into little neat categories...which is why I asked the question in the first place.

Clear as mud? I'm happy to try to clarify what I mean further. Just ask.


MNN

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(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:22:43 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip

I'm a straight male submissive and I'm very comfortable with my mascilineity but i see daily those who are not as comfortable with there own. so they have to make statements to reinforce it.


Oh, bullshit. That's just misdirected introductory level psychobabble aimed at demeaning the OP for no good reason.

There's a more obvious and likely reason the OP felt compelled to mention his masculinity: simply to distinguish himself from the significant number of subs who identify as "sissies" and the like, or have a strong interest in being feminized.

(in reply to LPslittleclip)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:29:42 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		I could be bothered to read all the replies... hey at least I'm honest... But i did read a few...

My explanation would be... KEEP YOUR DILDO OUTTA MY ASS!

just some copper

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"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to MistressNoName)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:34:57 PM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


quote:

ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip

I'm a straight male submissive and I'm very comfortable with my mascilineity but i see daily those who are not as comfortable with there own. so they have to make statements to reinforce it.


Oh, bullshit. That's just misdirected introductory level psychobabble aimed at demeaning the OP for no good reason.

There's a more obvious and likely reason the OP felt compelled to mention his masculinity: simply to distinguish himself from the significant number of subs who identify as "sissies" and the like, or have a strong interest in being feminized.


Ok, either I've lost my ability to understand written English, or you've totally missed the fact that the OP is female...I haven't mentioned my masculinity yet, but if you'd like to hear my take on it...meet me at Paddles so I can set the record straight.

MNN


_____________________________

aka Ms Petal - Check Me out on the Web.

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:39:31 PM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

I could be bothered to read all the replies... hey at least I'm honest... But i did read a few...

My explanation would be... KEEP YOUR DILDO OUTTA MY ASS!

just some copper


Crass, but I get your point. Thanx.

MNN

_____________________________

aka Ms Petal - Check Me out on the Web.

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:41:37 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		I would  have just taken it at what I consider face value ... and that to me would be that he had no interest in being feminized in any way .... I wouldnt even have considered that it had anything to do with his sexuality.  I dont often look for deeper meaning in profiles and journals .. I leave that for one on one chats ........

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to MistressNoName)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:57:11 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

I would  have just taken it at what I consider face value ... and that to me would be that he had no interest in being feminized in any way .... I wouldnt even have considered that it had anything to do with his sexuality.  I dont often look for deeper meaning in profiles and journals .. I leave that for one on one chats ........


Miss H... I think I am beginning to like you more evertime I read one of your posts...

(no stress... ONLY My Love can tolerate me. She has a blessed heart)

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to MissHarlet)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 8:58:20 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

Crass, but I get your point. Thanx.

MNN


Your welcome.  Crass... maybe... but hey, it wouldn't be me any other way...

< Message edited by HerLord -- 3/30/2008 8:59:40 PM >

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 9:17:26 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


quote:

ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip

I'm a straight male submissive and I'm very comfortable with my mascilineity but i see daily those who are not as comfortable with there own. so they have to make statements to reinforce it.


Oh, bullshit. That's just misdirected introductory level psychobabble aimed at demeaning the OP for no good reason.

There's a more obvious and likely reason the OP felt compelled to mention his masculinity: simply to distinguish himself from the significant number of subs who identify as "sissies" and the like, or have a strong interest in being feminized.


Ok, either I've lost my ability to understand written English, or you've totally missed the fact that the OP is female...I haven't mentioned my masculinity yet, but if you'd like to hear my take on it...meet me at Paddles so I can set the record straight.

MNN



Oops. Of course I meant the men referenced by the OP, not the actual OP.

(in reply to MistressNoName)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 9:51:20 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

I would  have just taken it at what I consider face value ... and that to me would be that he had no interest in being feminized in any way .... I wouldnt even have considered that it had anything to do with his sexuality.  I dont often look for deeper meaning in profiles and journals .. I leave that for one on one chats ........


Miss H... I think I am beginning to like you more evertime I read one of your posts...

(no stress... ONLY My Love can tolerate me. She has a blessed heart)


LOL is that a good thing ?? <wink>

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 10:28:26 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet
LOL is that a good thing ?? <wink>


As it may be obvious... It takes something special for me to like. You have it. It is definately a GREAT thing. Whether or not I like you is irrelevant to this.Thanks for you insights...
[ /hijack]

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to MissHarlet)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 10:33:29 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		<smile>  thanks ... I will take that as a compliment .. just had to tease along the way ....

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 10:51:10 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I guess it's a matter of perspective. My own being that as a whole being you only have 100% to be in any one continuum catagory.
If Masculine and Feminen are couter to each other on thre continuum then if one has more masculine (butch) than feminen, then one cannot be as feminen as one who has more Feminen than Masculine.

The value of each being entirely a subjective matter. 

This stated I have to clarify that I find niether masculine nor feminen to be "better" than the other, niether have greater innate value.
I also find great fault in many of the stereotypical quantifyers of what is masculine and what is feminen. Caretaking being an example, being a caretaker is in my mind niether masculine nor feminen, how that caretaking takes form though could very well be tinged with either.

To the best I can tell your viewpoint places them not counter to each other but on seperate lines entirely.
More butch would in that case not mean less fem because they would not be counter to each other being on different plains.


< Message edited by Archer -- 3/30/2008 10:54:15 PM >

(in reply to MissHarlet)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/30/2008 11:06:38 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Probably to set himself apart from the hordes of desperate, unwanted sissies that roam scenes everywhere. And to chase off women who want to make him into one.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/31/2008 8:04:55 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Probably to set himself apart from the hordes of desperate, unwanted sissies that roam scenes everywhere. And to chase off women who want to make him into one.


There ya go!

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/31/2008 10:03:09 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

I saw a profile today that got me wondering...so I posted these questions to my journal. Then I thought, "why not post this to the boards and see what happens?" Here `tis.

There are many times when I see a submissive man's profile where he says he is submissive, but masculine. The questions are, why would any submissive man feel he needs to make such a statement? Is being submissive such an "unmanly" state that a submissive man has been made to feel he has to attach this disclaimer to his self-description, even on a kink site? Why is that? And yes, I'm aware of the obvious male-dominant societal bias response...but I'm more interested in going a bit deeper...Like, what attitudes might a man encounter in a kinky, just about anything goes environment, such as this is, that still fosters this need to declare one's masculinity?

Perhaps this has been posted about before. But, there's a new male sub member joining everyday...and, I haven't seen this recently. So, I'm interested in all opinions, but mainly those of submissive men of all sexual kink/fetish/lifestyle orientations.

Thanks,

MNN


There are all sorts of generalizations regarding submission.

I've seen profiles from female submissives who specifically state: "I'm submissive but I'm not easy." [sexually promiscuous].

Or, "I submit, but I'm not a doormat to everyone."

Etc.

It's just a way of dealing with people, with limited information, who may make unfair judgments about other people.

< Message edited by MistressDolly -- 3/31/2008 10:04:21 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Submissive, but Masculine... - 3/31/2008 12:35:13 PM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

I saw a profile today that got me wondering...so I posted these questions to my journal. Then I thought, "why not post this to the boards and see what happens?" Here `tis.

There are many times when I see a submissive man's profile where he says he is submissive, but masculine. The questions are, why would any submissive man feel he needs to make such a statement? Is being submissive such an "unmanly" state that a submissive man has been made to feel he has to attach this disclaimer to his self-description, even on a kink site? Why is that? And yes, I'm aware of the obvious male-dominant societal bias response...but I'm more interested in going a bit deeper...Like, what attitudes might a man encounter in a kinky, just about anything goes environment, such as this is, that still fosters this need to declare one's masculinity?

Perhaps this has been posted about before. But, there's a new male sub member joining everyday...and, I haven't seen this recently. So, I'm interested in all opinions, but mainly those of submissive men of all sexual kink/fetish/lifestyle orientations.

Thanks,

MNN


There are all sorts of generalizations regarding submission.

I've seen profiles from female submissives who specifically state: "I'm submissive but I'm not easy." [sexually promiscuous].

Or, "I submit, but I'm not a doormat to everyone."

Etc.

It's just a way of dealing with people, with limited information, who may make unfair judgments about other people.


Thanks Mistress Dolly, I think that's a very true statement. And I think it's a shame when ppl make those types of unfair judgments.

MNN

_____________________________

aka Ms Petal - Check Me out on the Web.

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 37
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