RE: A Question of labels. (Full Version)

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Poetryinpain -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 7:19:17 AM)

What I call myself in my profile has more to do with filtering contacts than a label that describes my feelings about myself in a BDSM or any other relationship. I think that my position in a relationship is something that will be determined when there is a relationship, and it may change and evolve as the relationship matures.

Whenever I have been hired into a position, that position pretty well adheres to a job description. By the time I've had the position a few years, my duties and activities may bear very little resemblance to the initial job description. I think it must be the same in a BDSM dynamic - things change and the partners change to adapt.

I commend those dominant women who call themselves Master. The word mistress can have a negative connotation, and the word master has a much deeper meaning than merely someone in charge of someone else. Did you know that a female Postmaster is still called Postmaster rather than Postmistress?

pip, yet another bit of useless information from my compendium



NorthernGent -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 8:16:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Has anyone changed lots of times



I started off calling myself SuperDom......graduated to UberDom.....proceeded to progress to TranscendsTheBarriersof EarthlyWisdomDom....and when I had nowhere else to go I started spelling my name in capital letters TRANSCENDSTHEBARRIERSOFEARTHLYWISDOMDOM and ignored anyone who didn't do likewise.

'Truth be told, UberDom is a special time.



lusciouslips19 -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 12:54:08 PM)

You know, I have never believed Dom's who tell me I am a good submissive. A mentor Dom said I need a strong Dominant. My strength makes them up their game. But he has said thank you to me for things we shared and tells me I am a wonder and a great submissive. My Sir say I am a good submissive too. So why don't I believe them? Maybe because I am strong an opinionated and express my feelings/ Or maybe I have never done anything that i didn't want to do? When I think of a sub/slave and a good one, maybe I think of someone who has no rights. isn't allowed to talk, has orders barked at her and she dutifully follows without complaint. Ya know, a twue slave for a twue master?



colouredin -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 1:31:43 PM)

I think luscious that its possibly less to do with being a good anything than being compatible, I think that in any relationship if you really like the other person you push yourself that little bit further and as a s-type maybe that is more apparant that you are doing it? I dunno maybe im wrong. But I do think that i would be a crap submissive/girlfriend anything really to someone that I didnt respect and click with. Thats not to say that I havent been with people like that because I have, sometimes being lonley makes you lower your standards. 



Mercnbeth -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 2:03:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

You know, I have never believed Dom's who tell me I am a good submissive. A mentor Dom said I need a strong Dominant. My strength makes them up their game. But he has said thank you to me for things we shared and tells me I am a wonder and a great submissive. My Sir say I am a good submissive too. So why don't I believe them? Maybe because I am strong an opinionated and express my feelings/ Or maybe I have never done anything that i didn't want to do? When I think of a sub/slave and a good one, maybe I think of someone who has no rights. isn't allowed to talk, has orders barked at her and she dutifully follows without complaint. Ya know, a twue slave for a twue master?


when this slave thinks of a "good" sub or slave she doesn't think of any particular actions as their measure, but their own asessment of the fulfillment of their nature or chosen role, and the assessment of their partner/s.
 
someone who has no rights, has orders barked at her which she dutifully follows without complaint in a relationship she has with her partner has absolutely nothing to do with you being a "good" sub in your relationships with your Sir and mentor Dom...unless that is their desire for you.



lusciouslips19 -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 4:22:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

You know, I have never believed Dom's who tell me I am a good submissive. A mentor Dom said I need a strong Dominant. My strength makes them up their game. But he has said thank you to me for things we shared and tells me I am a wonder and a great submissive. My Sir say I am a good submissive too. So why don't I believe them? Maybe because I am strong an opinionated and express my feelings/ Or maybe I have never done anything that i didn't want to do? When I think of a sub/slave and a good one, maybe I think of someone who has no rights. isn't allowed to talk, has orders barked at her and she dutifully follows without complaint. Ya know, a twue slave for a twue master?


when this slave thinks of a "good" sub or slave she doesn't think of any particular actions as their measure, but their own asessment of the fulfillment of their nature or chosen role, and the assessment of their partner/s.
 
someone who has no rights, has orders barked at her which she dutifully follows without complaint in a relationship she has with her partner has absolutely nothing to do with you being a "good" sub in your relationships with your Sir and mentor Dom...unless that is their desire for you.


I know its wrong of me to not think of myself as a good sub when Dominants say I am. I am not sure why the concept has been so hard for be to wrap my head around. Maybe its my baggage. I probably was never told by my family that I was a "good girl". Maybe a part of me thinks i am "bad" because I did not get the praise I needed when I was a child? Sometimes even acting out for any kind of attention? Sorry for psychoanalyzing myself. I sure many want to barf from that [:'(]



Poetryinpain -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 5:33:33 PM)

luscious, perhaps your Sir and mentor meant that the activity in question went smoothly without anything annoying them. You communicated what you needed to say, and they were able to make adjustments, etc.

I think I get what you said about your childhood, though. My dad's favorite phrase to me was, "Basically you're a good kid." Always made me wonder where I was lacking.

pip, but I loved him anyway



lronitulstahp -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 5:44:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

You know, I have never believed Dom's who tell me I am a good submissive. A mentor Dom said I need a strong Dominant. My strength makes them up their game. But he has said thank you to me for things we shared and tells me I am a wonder and a great submissive. My Sir say I am a good submissive too. So why don't I believe them? Maybe because I am strong an opinionated and express my feelings/ Or maybe I have never done anything that i didn't want to do? When I think of a sub/slave and a good one, maybe I think of someone who has no rights. isn't allowed to talk, has orders barked at her and she dutifully follows without complaint. Ya know, a twue slave for a twue master?


when this slave thinks of a "good" sub or slave she doesn't think of any particular actions as their measure, but their own asessment of the fulfillment of their nature or chosen role, and the assessment of their partner/s.
 
someone who has no rights, has orders barked at her which she dutifully follows without complaint in a relationship she has with her partner has absolutely nothing to do with you being a "good" sub in your relationships with your Sir and mentor Dom...unless that is their desire for you.


I know its wrong of me to not think of myself as a good sub when Dominants say I am. I am not sure why the concept has been so hard for be to wrap my head around. Maybe its my baggage. I probably was never told by my family that I was a "good girl". Maybe a part of me thinks i am "bad" because I did not get the praise I needed when I was a child? Sometimes even acting out for any kind of attention? Sorry for psychoanalyzing myself. I sure many want to barf from that [:'(]
Shut up...you're fabulous!!!![sm=cheerleader.gif]
That "good girl" at the end of play or even in day to day life feels amazing...i totally get it.  And there's no denying that our childhood years affect how we deal in ALL relationships.  But, (and this is important...so pay attention you sweet doll)  you're allowed to have "shit".  Working through that "shit" is what you do...and don't let your "shit" keep you from being open, and 'there', emotionally.  If you find a partner that can get you in spite of your "shit" well...halluljah!!  Even better...but never let your "Shit" keep you from missing out...be in the moment until your "shit" is sorted.
~pottymouthedslutwhohappenstothinklusciousisprettyfrickinfantastic
p.s.sorry for all the shits...but "stuff" and "issues"didn't pack the same punch...had to be "shit"



Rayne58 -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 6:01:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

A lot of people think being a slave is much more twue than being a sub. I disagree. I think the coolest thing is to be who you are in a relationship where your needs are totally fulfilled with someone else who finds their needs totally fulfilled in that relationship also.


Wonderfully put [:)] I identify as a sub, a Dom friend of ours has said that I'd make a good slave, and Sir jokes around and calls me Mistress sometimes when I'm being a bit bossy [;)]

But hey, what we have works for us. He loves that I care enough to boss Him a little [:D]



lusciouslips19 -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 6:01:28 PM)

Gawd, I love you guys!

I know I'm fabulous. If you saw me with my class. You would see I'm pretty strong and in charge. Well, most of the time. I dont act like a drill sargeant and perhaps some of them would respond better with a stricter teacher. I was brought up to be a strong woman and bossy. But really thats all stress to me. When I trust someone enough to give them the reigns, I trust completely. Yes, I do communicate well to my Mentors and Sirs and let them know whats comfortable or not. I'm pretty resilient and push myself to my limits. Physically, I have very few limits and I'm very open to so much and so appreciative of  a good Master. there is nothing i wont do for a good one. But I have never had any 24/7 challenges. I pretty much always do what I want. Perhaps thats why I have questioned. I have never had a dominant who wanted complete control or one that I had to do submissive acts daily. With my Sir, I am the one suggesting that I should be doing things for him. Asking him what tasks he would like me to do as his submissive.

edited to say: One of the things I like about D's is the intimate contact you experience with your "shit". I find it rather healing.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 6:09:48 PM)

I started out slave.  I began to actively top and orient myself as a slave/top about three years ago.  I have oriented myself as a switch for about three years.

It certainly wasn't a progression from less to more- simply me becoming who I am.  However,  it is true that many a person does consider sub to slave to be a progression into something "more" beyond simply their internal personal growth.

It's also fun when slaves try to educate me on the harsh life of slavery cuz they don't know my background :)



lusciouslips19 -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/4/2008 6:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I started out slave.  I began to actively top and orient myself as a slave/top about three years ago.  I have oriented myself as a switch for about three years.

It certainly wasn't a progression from less to more- simply me becoming who I am.  However,  it is true that many a person does consider sub to slave to be a progression into something "more" beyond simply their internal personal growth.

It's also fun when slaves try to educate me on the harsh life of slavery cuz they don't know my background :)


The thing I do know is that I am a very sensuous person. I always have been. I hid it for a while. 12 years. Embracing my sensuality and my submission and who I am is becoming my authentic self. That is more important than any label.



Tantriqu -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 12:24:27 PM)

I also like the indicator test.
1.  Blindfold and bind a man.
2.  without touching or telling him, check his erection;
3.   whisper in his ear, 'Good dog.'
4.  check his erection again, protractor/moaning/groaning/sweating/gasping/begging optional. 
5.  If there is significant elevation/needle in the red/sundial at noon on the Equator, chances are he's sub material.



Level -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 1:07:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arrrchibald

I consider myself only what I'm doing at the moment I'm doing it. 

While dominating someone, I'm a dom. 

Right now though, I'm someone writing on a thread and eating some cinnamon raisin bread. 

Correction:  I'm dominating some cinnamon raisin bread. 



LOL
 
To the OP: the only label I care for now is that of a guy that wants as much control as possible. Any potential partner would have to bring something significant to the table to counteract that, such as love. If I meet a woman, and love her, and she isn't particularly kinky, then it might still work. But, if true love isn't there, and if it's going to be a D/s relationship, she will have to yield a tremendous amount of control, or I'm not going to be interested in anything more than the occasional romp.



Sirsinini -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 2:18:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: submyt

Maybe I am off the beaten path here a bit, but my belief is that every person is different, as is every D/s or M/s relationship.  The perameters in which the relationship is defined have to do with the two involved.  There is so much emphasis placed on names...too much, IMHO.

          Ah YES..what they said....
but add titles and labels to names.  
Sir's devoted property
(HIS choice for me alone !)



thornhappy -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 2:57:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Ok this isnt about one true way or anything but INDIVIDUALS and their own experances. I have seen a couple of threads that seem to suggest its a progression from sub to slave, Dom to Master etc I personally dont agree with this however I would like to know just out of interest if many people have changed the label that they identify with and their reasons for it.

Did you start off calling yourself a sub and change to slave? or did you call youself a Dom and change to sub, did you initially consider yourself a switch then choose one or the other as your label? What changed? Has anyone changed lots of times, sub to Dom back to sub again? Im really just curious this isnt about whats right or wrong just a general interest.


I went the opposite way; started out sub but am currently more bottom (no, not that!) than sub.

thornhappy



TreasureKY -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 3:01:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Did you start off calling yourself a sub and change to slave? or did you call youself a Dom and change to sub, did you initially consider yourself a switch then choose one or the other as your label? What changed? Has anyone changed lots of times, sub to Dom back to sub again? Im really just curious this isnt about whats right or wrong just a general interest.


When I started out, I chose "submissive" because it has an honest to goodness definition in the English dictionary... inclined or willing to submit.  To me, that covers both submissive and slave.  In fact, I rarely differentiate between bottom, sub, and slave in any of my comments... to me they are all submissive.

That doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion on the differences... I very much do, and I even have my preference.  I just don't discuss it with others.  When it comes to what other people label themselves or even what I am referred to, it doesn't really matter.  What does matter is that Firm and I are happy with our relationship. 

Out of curiosity I recently asked him which he considers me... a submissive or a slave?  His answer surprised me somewhat... he said that I am a strong and independent woman who defers to him.  He seems happy with that, with me, and with our relationship.

So... I guess I'm neither a submissive or a slave.  [;)]



Archer -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 4:51:34 PM)

A speach I gave last June at Southeast Leatherfest that applies somewhat to the topic here:

When someone first unearths the world of Leather and BDSM, they find that they are not the only ones in the universe that have these desires and the numbers are much larger than they ever expected or even hoped for. We all found ourselves awash in information and opinions, trying to stabilize ourselves as we try to find out where we fit in this new world.

Generally we at least know if we are in the generic sense a top or bottom, we know if we have a desire to submit or dominate (or even possibly that we want both) Other than that we are pretty much lost in the sea of possibilities.

So often someone will read a little and talk a little and when they see something they like or that makes them hot they instantly adopt the identification of those that are doing those things. I would suggest that this is a pretty lame way of adopting a new identity in the new community we discover.

There has been a trend to make the titles of slave and Master the summit of a leather or BDSM journey. I find that this trend is almost
always at the center of the Master/ slave vs. Dominant/ submissive identity debates. The whole idea that the goal for everyone is to shift the highest level of power exchange is as destructive as any other factor I can imagine to those who are beginning their journey.   A slave is not better than a submissive based on the level of service they give to their owner, they are different, A Master is not better than a Dominant based on the level of control they exert over their partner, they are different. The idea that someone who is suited to a TPE is somehow better than someone who is suited to very limited power exchanges is just total bunk. It is an idea whose time has come to be rejected by all of us and consigned to the scrap heap of ideas where it belongs. More is not always better applies to authority exchange.
As a whole we are in fact all equal Tops, bottoms, Masters, slaves, submissives, Dominants, we are all people. We just have some different needs as far as how we live our lives. It seems to me that we have a bit of "Keeping up with the Jones's Syndrome" when it comes to titles and identities.

This being said if I have succeeded in muddying the waters further and in effect that is my goal.   Finding where you fit shouldn't be a short-term project. Self Identifying should be a struggling study in who you are, what you want, what you need, and only then can you claim any meaningful identity, and even that is subject to change over time.


In Leather
Archer




Poetryinpain -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 5:01:36 PM)

Bravo, Archer!

pip, giving a Standing O



DiurnalVampire -> RE: A Question of labels. (4/5/2008 5:11:35 PM)

I started out as a Dominant. I am still Dominant, but I am now an Owner as well. I dont care for any other titles, aside from Mommy, and there are only 2 people in the world who refer to me that way. I have never been a Mistress, a Dominatrix (the word alone makes me shdder since it is so stereotyped) or anything else.

Angel started out identifying as a slave when I met him. He knew that was where he wanted to be, from scant prior knowledge knew what he craved. I have taken him far past when he ever expected to be in for, as he told me last tiem I saw him. However, slave is still what he considers himself to be.  He is not submissive in general, aside from around me, unless someone else takes the lead and acts aggressively. He does not SUBMIT to anyone but me... ever.

Fox started as submissive on here. He only changed his label to slave after he was collared. He does not act differently, but his logic is that he is a submissive male all the time. That is who he is.  He is MY slave, by choice, and so he opted to change the label to fit the circumstance. He is not a slave to anyone other than me, though he will always have submissive tendancies around other people. For him, a submissive personality is a trait, the desire to submit and serve is a different thing.

Hope that makes sense. Did in my head, but that doesnt always translate as well as I think it will.

DV




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