Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (Full Version)

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RealityLicks -> Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 7:51:55 AM)

Insider trading is rife in the City, causing the police to raise the numbers of the local fraud squad by 35%.  Last month, rogue traders knocked 18% of the shares of HBOS (UK's biggest bank) yet no prosecutions are forthcoming. 

Why don't the authorities ever prosecute these criminals?


quote:


Mark Pieth, the chairman of the OECD working group on bribery, said: 'The findings from this research are remarkable. Those surveyed are employed to protect their companies from prosecution; calling for more prosecutions is not in their self-interest. But companies' integrity has been called into question by the failure of authorities to properly investigate and prosecute instances of bribery. Nowhere is this more acute than in the UK where, despite high profile cases, no prosecution has been brought in the 10 years since the UK government adopted the OECD anti-bribery convention.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/06/ukcrime



seeksfemslave -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 8:10:56 AM)

Typical, the City is identified as what represents Britain.
High finance and stock market  are the province of the well connected spiv....... everywhere.



meatcleaver -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 8:59:34 AM)

The finance markets are run on greed and are badly regulated (apparently capitalists are so honest they don't need regulating) so why would anyone expect anything different?

We've got a credit crunch because of greed which is just the latest financial crisis due to greed. Until white collar crime is taken as seriously as other crimes and make the criminals do the time and not in holiday home prisons but real prisons, then nothing will change.



lronitulstahp -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 9:01:44 AM)

Belgium is gonna be soooo disappointed....[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image]



meatcleaver -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 9:04:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Belgium is gonna be soooo disappointed....[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image]


Yep. Since they can't be interesting in any other way, you think they would have taken a shot at being the most dishonest country, that is relatively easy but they can't even do that.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 11:09:01 AM)

The corruption will increase drastically in times of financial crisis, just look at the 80’s and early 90’s.

Oh it's a bright future ahead of us.[:D]



RealityLicks -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 11:15:15 AM)

Except it's not just the City, it's construction contracts for the Olympics and dodgy knock off goods if you read the link.  I don't know where this country gets the front to criticise others for corruption, much less to typify whole continents like Africa with it.  For some reason, what is boring here is considered "agonising" there.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1765238/tm.htm



Politesub53 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 11:46:23 AM)

RL your title is misleading to say the least. Where are some facts showing the UK is the most corrupt Country in Europe ?  What is beyond doubt is that the serious fraud squad is and always has been seriously underfunded. The present compliment of 120 officers could have been swallowed up investigating the BAE scandal on its own. Fake goods are a problem world wide, i dont see this being a bigger problem here than anywhere else.
The difference with the commets made about Africa is the large amount being syphoned off at Ministerial level, nothing to do with anything else.

Blair didnt want the SFO to investigate further, as it would upset our Saudi friends. This doesnt mean the evidence wasnt their, it just means that once again the politicians stuck there oar in. Neither party comes out fo this very good either, as the situation has always been the same. Sadly much of this is part of the old boys network, with Ex Ministers getting lucrative jobs, just for their contacts in high places. I suspect if they looked at all the contruction firms with contracts for the Olympics, many familiar names would appear.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 11:54:16 AM)

With tendering for contracts it's one of those grey areas where corruption could exist but is hard to prove. For example it is quite common for bidding parties to wine and dine people making the important decisions on tenders much the same way Steve Cram wined and dined members of the IOC when London was competing to stage the next Olympics. It becomes a question of what is acceptable and how do you police it? BAE systems has been in trouble over the Saudi Royal Family bribes scandal but it's hard for an outsider to say what is acceptable to sweeten a deal. That is capitalism everyone does it as they compete with one another for their futures. It's not right but its life. Capitalism isn’t about fairness because sometimes the organisations with the worst products win out due to influence and power.

An interesting point is the naming and shaming of companies by the FSA, if this occurred what would happen to the share prices of those companies 'suspected'? For me this would have the same effect as insider trading and the FSA should not be influencing the markets in that way.



RealityLicks -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 11:55:14 AM)

If the rampant corruption here is outmatched by that in other European countries, why doesn't Europe have an image as a corrupt continent?



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:00:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
If the rampant corruption here is outmatched by that in other European countries, why doesn't Europe have an image as a corrupt continent?

It doesn't?

Then
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3027212.stm
Now
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2008/02/fighting_against_fraud_1.html



Politesub53 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:03:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

If the rampant corruption here is outmatched by that in other European countries, why doesn't Europe have an image as a corrupt continent?


Just because it isnt in our press, it doesnt mean it isnt happening. France certainly had problems. " Who shall we vote for, the facist or the crook" in a recent French election. I am not saying we dont have problems, i know from experience that it goes on in the construction trade. All i am saying is its the same elsewhere.

EDited to add...... With the recent HBOS scandal its easy to prove who made money from share dealing. Whats difficult is getting enough evidence to show who started the rumour, then making that stand up in a court of law.



RealityLicks -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:12:51 PM)

I don't think that people do think of all European states as being overly corrupt, despite what goes on in the EU Parliament.  Try finding anything that refers to Europe in the way Africa routinely is, as suffering from one particular ill.



RealityLicks -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:29:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

EDited to add...... With the recent HBOS scandal its easy to prove who made money from share dealing. Whats difficult is getting enough evidence to show who started the rumour, then making that stand up in a court of law.


True enough.  But I think that after this has been observed for over a decade, either the judicial or the executive would have reformed the system.  Naming and shaming is pretty tame when you remember that not a single prosecution has been brought in ten years.  Yet you imply that there is no high level endemic corruption...

And it certainly is the same elsewhere.  But there is an observed reluctance to prosecute bribery.  Look at PPP!  Everywhere people are looking to lock up petty criminals while the real thieves roll in it.



LadyEllen -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:37:33 PM)

I believe the government and its agencies are hamstrung on this sort of thing. Having spent decades turning our economy into one which relies on the "financial services industry", are they now going to get tough with the sector upon which the country relies? And risk all those companies, even the innocent ones going to foreign shores, which they could very easily - they have no plant to move after all? And the accompanying loss of income, jobs and prestige?

I think not.

E






SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:37:33 PM)

It's always easier to think the only demons that exist live beyond our shores; it is just human nature to demonise that which we don't understand. The number of white African’s emigrating from Africa with their horror stories doesn't help the situation I suppose. Then there are the films such as 'Blood Diamonds' and 'Last king of Scotland' which depict how much black Africans have valued the lives of one another in the past, there is the internationally recognised known atrocities that have taken place there too. All this paints a picture and gives Africa a reputation that is hard to move past, one day it will but not in my lifetime.

(Edit: they = we)



Politesub53 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:42:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

EDited to add...... With the recent HBOS scandal its easy to prove who made money from share dealing. Whats difficult is getting enough evidence to show who started the rumour, then making that stand up in a court of law.


True enough.  But I think that after this has been observed for over a decade, either the judicial or the executive would have reformed the system.  Naming and shaming is pretty tame when you remember that not a single prosecution has been brought in ten years.  Yet you imply that there is no high level endemic corruption...

And it certainly is the same elsewhere.  But there is an observed reluctance to prosecute bribery.  Look at PPP!  Everywhere people are looking to lock up petty criminals while the real thieves roll in it.


I agree with all of this, except i dont think its endemic, more a sense of apathy prevails.



Politesub53 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:45:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Then there are the films such as 'Blood Diamonds' and 'Last king of Scotland' which depict how much black Africans have valued the lives of one another in the past,


I dont think we can base our opinions of an entire continent, on a few despots and their followers. No disrespect but "The last king of Scotland" could be as inaccurate as "Braveheart"



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:48:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
No disrespect but "The last king of Scotland" could be as inaccurate as "Braveheart"


Yep I doubt there was a ugly skinny white bloke running about advising Idi Amin but the atrocities that were largely omitted in the film did take place.



RealityLicks -> RE: Most Corrupt Country in Europe is Britain (4/6/2008 12:49:08 PM)

It would take too long to go into whether the lack of prosecutions is caused by apathy or special pleading by the City or a combination of the two.  The fact is, since it is wrong and that small shareholders, pensioners and tax-payers are fearlessly relieved of millions each week something must be done about it.

Is our agenda so completely governed by the media that we can now only be roused to complain about the things they tell us to be angry about? 



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