BDSM and Spirituality (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 10:28:15 AM)

I see kink as an important component in my spirituality, yes, pagan. An important component in that it can put us into situations where normal life would not, and there enable learning about oneself. I desire to know myself and go some way to learning or even achieving self mastery, and that is self mastery in all things, so that I may be the best that I can be in my service to society.

This, to me is a path to take, an option would be to blindly bumble along, being blown like a leaf in the wind, with no fixed purpose, as I have been doing in the past part of my life,something which has caused dissatisfaction with myself and my surroundings.The problem with my surroundings, is not the fault of the surroundings, but my perception of them, I wish to change that through better understanding.Understanding only comes by learning and that is what I am seeking to do. I am prepared to in my quest, seek and break through the barrier of male stereotypes and allow my wholeness to shine through, if that makes any sense to others?

Now, I have pagan thought, a spirituality which works for me, but I am very interested on how others view the acts of BDSM, and what it means to them. Particularly if they feel a search for the spirit in what it is that they do. ?







Faramir -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 10:36:24 AM)

Love forms a very important part of my spiituality, my Buberian, Taosist, Existentialist Christianity.  My best undersatnding of my place in this world is that I am here to know and be known, to be in relation with others, to love.  One of the particular ways I know of to love, the one that stretches me the most, forces me to be reflexive and face who I am and what I have chosen, is in eros love.  For me, eros love is framed in ownership and power, so indeed, for me "the acts of BDSM," so much as they deepen the intimacy and love between I and my wife, are very much spiritual.




Padriag -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 11:11:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Now, I have pagan thought, a spirituality which works for me, but I am very interested on how others view the acts of BDSM, and what it means to them. Particularly if they feel a search for the spirit in what it is that they do. ?

Nothing spiritual about it for me, its an aspect of my life and an extension / expression of my nature.  Its something I enjoy.  I don't ascribe any "higher" meaning to it, nor do I ennoble it in any way as I have often seen others do.  This is just who I am, simple as that.  I do wonder sometimes why it is I seem to spend so little energy on introspection, self exploration... which others seem to view as "spirituality".  Perhaps I just did whatever I needed to when I was growing up and thus already satisfied that particular urge.  Perhaps I'm just more comfortable with myself.  I do find in curious though.




Faramir -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 11:19:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
Perhaps I'm just more comfortable with myself.  I do find in curious though.


How wonderfully self-congratulatory.  People with other viewpoints don't have warranted grounds for their beliefs--they're just not "comfortable" like you are.  :)

BRILLIAN!




crouchingtigress -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 11:23:35 AM)

everything including cleaning puppy poo is spiritual in my definition....what i do in BDSM is sacred.




mzbehavin -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 11:48:41 AM)

I do find spirituality in D/s. Its a state of mind/being that comes over me. Maybe comparable to being 'overcome with spirit' or however modern religion defines it.
Its very hard to explain and has only happened a few times.
On a daily basis, yes also, service is part of what makes me, me. I feel I'm serving my higher purpose, and feeding my spirit through service. Its just not always accompanied by deep feelings of bliss lol.




openlil1 -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 11:55:31 AM)

When it works optimally, BDSM helps my slave soul feel authentic and active, and when that happens i feel more connected to the higher power.    Somewhere as a Catholic-raised child i read "my soul glories...."   and that is as close to it as i can articulate.

Great thread, by the way. 




DarkVictory -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 11:58:26 AM)

Interesting topic at this moment.  Turns out that a friend is conducting a few interviews of 'senior' practitioners at the Institute for Transpersonal Psychology into the spiritual aspects of BDSM. I don't know what the interviews will be like, but I'm apparently going to be interviewed for a couple of hours.  Thats a long time.

I see BDSM as my near-only spiritual outlet.  I have no use at all for religion of any kind.  Nor do I believe in any 'god' of any kind.  Yet, when I'm 'in the moment' with a submissive woman, when that deeply and intensely personal connection is present, it's spiritual.

There are other spiritual moments, being alone deep in the wilderness, miles from humanity at dawn, or staring out into the night sky, confronting the utter meaninglessness of life, and yet getting that that too is meaningless, and that life is simply what it is.  But, in general, the most reliable access I have to the sacred is through the tears of a beautiful woman.




hisannabelle -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 12:34:00 PM)

greetings aneirin,

funny that this topic should come up on the boards again, since i just made a blog post about (among other things) this very issue. as others have mentioned, to me, everything i do in my life is supposed to be an expression of my spirituality. i am not self-aware enough to be that conscious of the divine in my every action, but i am working on becoming more mindful.

many of the things we do and avenues we explore in our relationship and our play stem from our shared understanding of spirituality; we were both buddhist, up until recently, when i reverted to islam. so spirituality has always been a deep part of our relationship, and, in my case, is the basis for my submission. it took me awhile to realize this but i am blessed with the time i have spent becoming conscious of my submission and exploring what it means, because ultimately it has prepared me for not only a fulfilling relationship with my partner, but also to understand my relationship with allah (subhanu wa ta'ala).  i don't see m/s or submission as necessarily "more spiritual" than vanilla relationships, but for me, it is who i am, and it is part of my spirituality because both of those things form a ground for who i am.

respectfully,
annabelle.




Sirsinini -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 12:43:28 PM)

The problem with my surroundings, is not the fault of the surroundings, but my perception of them, I wish to change that through better understanding.Understanding only comes by learning and that is what I am seeking to do. I am prepared to in my quest, seek and break through the barrier of male stereotypes and allow my wholeness to shine through, if that makes any sense to others?


This makes perfect sense and I only wish the entire lot of people in this world were on this quest.
But I hardly think that this quest has in anyway something to do with kink.
If through this behaviour, use of sexuality that is, kink, you find this wholeness you so desire, then I would find you shallow. 
 
My Sir is agnostic and never would he even think to find himself agnostically kinky just to find wholeness in his normal everyday life situations.  Kink doesnt define his every day normal life nor does it (kink) allow him to broaden his horizons on anything and definately it (kink) does not enable him to learn more about himself.
He is an intellectual who thinks with his brain, seaches with his heart and mind and soul and not his whip or paddle or vibrator or hand or cock.
 
Life is because he makes it, thinks it and lives it ... Life is not seen through the glass filter of kink.
BTW this is true of me...while not at all agnostic....  but quite opposite of his beliefs in God or a god....  Life is not filtered via kink.

For some reason I tend to read your conclusion as spiritual = kink = pagan = life perceptions = BDSM = fulfilled wholeness and happiness.  [8|]




Insatiable4Black -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 12:52:39 PM)

Euphoric, spirit-minded, exciting, genuine, thrilling...  yep.




Aneirin -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 12:55:14 PM)

Kink, as I see it is but a step in what I seek, it is a step so far not trodden, I fear it, but at the same time it attracts. I feel I cannot move forward until I have taken this step, which is ,I feel is, laying down my defences and allowing another spirit to see me and come close.




Loveisallyouneed -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 1:01:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am very interested on how others view the acts of BDSM, and what it means to them. Particularly if they feel a search for the spirit in what it is that they do. ?



Most of my profile/journal is devoted to this question.

This will provide some insight:

First and foremost, bdsm is a tool for expressing love and respect.
 
The more challenging and difficult the service rendered, the more love and respect is shown, and the more undeniable that love and respect becomes.
Society has long recognized that only true love will endure all things, overcome all things. This is the mantra of a slave: to endure and overcome, as a gift of love and respect to her master.
 
Society has also long recognized that true love demonstrates itself through the care and compassion we display when nurturing another. This is the mantra of the master: to nurture and care for the needs and aspirations of his slave.
 
This is the master/slave paradigm. The slave to endure and overcome, the master to nurture with care and compassion.
 
A slave has a very deep-seated need to express her love in tangible, undeniable ways. This can lead to some pretty extreme forms of expression. She needs to feel challenged so as to feel she has accomplished something tangible and undeniable. Her sole focus is to give her love to the master she has chosen, with no thought for herself. She becomes a specialist at giving.
 
A master must complement and complete the slave. For the slave to give, there must be a master who receives yet never takes.
 
The challenges a master faces are varied. He is responsible for making decisions that affect not only himself but his slave as well. He must find ways that are safe, yet challenging for his slave to express her love in tangible and undeniable forms. This may sound easy but try living it 24/7 and keeping it relevant to a slave's current level of growth. A master must have a constant, almost psychic sense of his slave's state of mind.
 
Thus a good master is highly communicative and always interested in the thoughts and feelings of his slave.
 
A true work of art, for a master, is to posess the happiest slave on Earth.
 
Thus, abuse and disrespect are out of the question, just as an artist would not slash a canvas he intended to use for his masterpiece.
 
I mentioned before that a master "receives", not "takes". The gift that is freely given through love and respect is more highly prized than the treasure taken through force.
 
For with the gift comes the love and respect, both affirming the master's love for his slave and his understanding of her needs and aspirations.
 
To take by force is to lose the gift, the love and the respect.
 
Thus a master must be on guard against his own tendencies to allow his power to corrupt him. For a slave gives great power over herself to her master, and it is very tempting to abuse that power through either intention or neglect.
 
Only the master who focuses on his love for his slave can navigate those waters safely. Only one who is observant, thoughtful (as opposed to irrational) and virtuous will consider the needs of his slave before his own and thus keep all activities within acceptable limits of safety.
 
I said earlier that a slave does not think of herself. This is to allow herself to focus solely on giving her love to her master.
 
A master must always keep in mind how vulnerable is his slave. He must think of her needs for her, for she is only thinking of his.
 
In this way they complement each other.
 
A master must think of the health of his slave, that she eats well, sleeps well, obtains exercise and pleasure, that her mind is stimulated. And he must demonstrate his love in other, more direct ways: encouragement, support, acknowledgment of accomplishments and respect for all she does for him. Being open and honest with his affection, not robotic and mechanically heartless or unemotional.
 
I've been asked why more M/Ds don't see their bdsm the way I described earlier.
 
Doesn't it seem more reasonable that a master who treats his slave with love and respect will get better results than one who treats her abusively and without respect?
 
I agree.
 
But consider the qualities I've described.
 
Not exactly something one is likely to find very often.
 
It is much easier to master the skills of the whip and crop than to train heart and soul to be sensitive to the subtleties of nuance, tone and body language.
 
And flashier at the 'play parties'.
 
It is unfortunate that so many see technique trumping the heart and soul of bdsm.
 
But then, that's why there are so many auto mechanics and so few mechanical engineers.
 
Much easier to follow a manual than to do the work needed to write it.
 
And the ways of the heart are not something a manual can adequately describe. Each combination of people is unique, and the circumstances under which they live are unique.
 
A master such as I've described must ride the present much like a surfer rides a wave, using all of his senses and skills to remain balanced and poised as he rides out the wave.
 
A master is like a dedicated teacher, like a devoted parent. Not just anyone can do this, and most don't.
 
For to properly master another a master must master himself. Like any good parent, a master must ignore the dictates of ego so as to shine the limelight on his slave's accomplishments, to illuminate her contributions to their domestic bliss.
 
A master's accomplishments, if done well, are almost always unrecognized and unnoticed, just as a parent's suggestions will inspire a child to achieve growth.
 
A master's true accomplishment is the growth of his slave. It is in her and through her that his work shines. We do not see DaVinci's skill with painting except through the masterpieces he left after he was done.
 
So it is with a master and his slave. Her accomplishments are in part his, for he creates the milieu within which she learns to accomplish her miracles.
No, there are not many who appreciate that.
 
Much easier to tie pretty knots. 




azropedntied -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 1:28:18 PM)

One of the reason s I so love to be a part of the south west Leather event every jan  is that it delves into this very topic .The Spirituality side of bdsm SnM  D/s  and my involvement's in my  small way compared to how the universe operates keep me learning .Not so much one particular religion rather spiritual universal energy .
great thread !




Padriag -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 1:32:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
Perhaps I'm just more comfortable with myself.  I do find in curious though.


How wonderfully self-congratulatory.  People with other viewpoints don't have warranted grounds for their beliefs--they're just not "comfortable" like you are.  :)

Well thanks... personally I think its cause of the flannel undershorts... just can't beat'em for comfort.  For the record, I did not say they didn't have warranted grounds for their beliefs, I said I found the difference between them and myself curious.  I am quite comfortable with myself, from my perspective it seems like all the "soul" searching some do speaks of a kind of discomfort with themselves, as though they hadn't quite come to terms with who they are just yet.  I find the discussion interesting chiefly because those who view BDSM as something spiritual are something of a mystery to me.  To assume that implies I'm hostile towards them is your own misapprehension.  On the contrary, I find such people intriguing to varying degrees (generally related to how personable they are, I'm rather unintrigued by you at the moment for example... you really ought to try the decaf) and sometimes enjoy learning about how they view things, why they see things as they do.

quote:

BRILLIAN!

You forgot the T... but thanks anyway, I am rather brilliant if I do say so myself.  Never claimed to be modest though.




Padriag -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 1:34:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

everything including cleaning puppy poo is spiritual in my definition....

Now see, that just baffles me.  I gotta clean the cat's litter box out later today and "spiritual" is NOT the word that comes to mind for it (malodorous more likely).




ResidentSadist -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 1:48:53 PM)

I also see my lifestyle as having spiritual components.  To me it takes great spiritual awareness to be a slave or a Master and it requires and almost Zen like mindset.




Noah -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 2:04:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

everything including cleaning puppy poo is spiritual in my definition....

Now see, that just baffles me.  I gotta clean the cat's litter box out later today and "spiritual" is NOT the word that comes to mind for it (malodorous more likely).


... showing us a good deal about a difference between you and crouchingtigress.




MichaelJ4u -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 2:16:05 PM)

I will look at this from a fundamental position. To be spiritual necessitates a few things. First off one must have connection to their own soul. Addiction, egotism, denial and shame all play part in fading this connection. Next there must be Understanding Cooperation and Acceptance. From there, anything is possible. Being spiritual is about the connecting, and the tool or the practice leaves us vast methods and opportunities. One can find spiritualism in almost anything and others will find nary. Tis the fate of the own self. 
One of my favorite Zen proverbs is:
"Before enlightenment, chop wood, fetch water.
After enlightenment, chop wood, fetch water"  




lronitulstahp -> RE: BDSM and Spirituality (4/20/2008 2:34:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelJ4u

I will look at this from a fundamental position. To be spiritual necessitates a few things. First off one must have connection to their own soul. Addiction, egotism, denial and shame all play part in fading this connection. Next there must be Understanding Cooperation and Acceptance. From there, anything is possible. Being spiritual is about the connecting, and the tool or the practice leaves us vast methods and opportunities. One can find spiritualism in almost anything and others will find nary. Tis the fate of the own self. 
One of my favorite Zen proverbs is:
"Before enlightenment, chop wood, fetch water.
After enlightenment, chop wood, fetch water"  
     First of all ...welcome to the boards...[sm=welcomewave.gif]
You say that denial fades the spiritual connection...but it seems that for a lot of people religion means the practrice of constant denial...anything they feel is too pleasurable is deemed "wicked".  One of the things about wiitwd that is hard for many to come to terms with, is that alot of it involves what some consider "immoral" acts.  i am a spiritual Christian person...but i'll borrow from a different path and say imo, "desires lead to enlightenment..."  Religion, spitrituality for me, is a personal experience...a walk with G-d that is mine alone...free from negativity and judgement.




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