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RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/24/2004 5:07:28 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterjm2k4
I just used my on-line gaming nick for this, but I see it's wrong thing to do.

While I don't think anyone would say it is "wrong," I think most people who have been at this for a while tend to notice the high correlation between those who use "Master" (or "Lord" or "Sir" or "Dom") in their names and those who are either new or only practice BDSM online (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Margret Thatcher once said, "Having power is like being a lady, if you have to tell people you have it, then you don't."

Personlly, a person who calls themselves with some title, or caps all pronouns referring to themselves has to work extra hard to earn my respect.

On the plus side, the fact that you didn't cap the initial m of your screen name told me at a glance that you were new, and not and online player.

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/24/2004 10:11:54 AM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

MasterJM,

To get back to your initial question, I will take a stab at it.

I dont believe there is anything specifically wrong with getting advice from your submissive on how to be a Dominant. I believe that open communication between the submissive and the Dominant is crucial to success in the lifestyle.

Whether you and yours will be able to pull it off really hinges on the dynamics of your relationship. Ultimately, you are driving. While your partner can provide information to you, you are the one who has to decide what to do with that information. Some partners are willing to let go and let you drive, others may try to use their position as your "mentor" as a means of trying to control you. This is known to some as Topping from the bottom.

There is a difference between being a driver of a moving vehicle and sitting in the passenger seat holding the map and telling you where to go. You can take directions, but always remember what you do with those directions is entirely up to you. Conversely, letting the one in the passenger seat have the steering wheel almost never has good outcomes.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/24/2004 11:55:46 AM

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/23/2004
Status: offline

So basically it's like having a driver and a passenger in the car, if you get lost or don't know how to get there(do something) the passenger can always pull out the map and direct you until you find your way(is that a correct metaphor?). I could've cap the M if i wanted to, I guess I didn't learn much about the forum side.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/24/2004 7:29:45 PM

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

jm, you must remember that it is still a relationship. Both bring things to the mix. If you are not willing to use what your slave has to offer, you will never be a good Dom.

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/24/2004 10:08:43 PM

Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

Ask subs, ask Dom/mes, ask Switches. Go to munches and listen, go to events & observe.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 12:18:17 AM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So basically it's like having a driver and a passenger in the car, if you get lost or don't know how to get there(do something) the passenger can always pull out the map and direct you until you find your way(is that a correct metaphor?). I could've cap the M if i wanted to, I guess I didn't learn much about the forum side.

As metaphors go, the driver/passenger one tends to work, largely because giving the passenger the steering wheel is not a particularly great idea.

However, what other people have posted is also valid. As the driving force in your relationship, you have to find who YOU as a Dominant are. This means you need to find your kinks, your abilities, train with your tools, and find your own answers to questions. If you simply rely on your submissive to provide you with information, you will not end up being in the Dominant position in the relationship.

I am not personally interested in whether the M is capped.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to LadyShoshin)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 1:32:58 AM

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/23/2004
Status: offline

I'm confused here? Is there no problem asking a sub if you are doing something for the first time , yet the sub's had experience in it, to make sure that it is being done right? I understand the no reliance part, but if I understand things correctly that it's fine to make sure with the sub that you are doing it properly(like their not in unwanted pain or something too tight), correct?

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 7:34:51 AM

sirdenisdogmaste

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline

let me try to answer about most the questions and interrogations i read there.
Im mostly a dogmaster, cause since i lived in berlin last 5 years there i discovered underground life and sm life, well i was introduce to sm sex and mind by an ex in paris, he wanted me to bondage him, as im pervert in mind and so curious about playing when its coming to sex to make it funny and spicy i discovered it and very deep.
Im very dominant in my professionnal life, even if im respecting individuals, im leading a group by making rules and decisions and punishment.
so it was that way of behaving i used when i had to be the dominant in the sm contact.
My first real dog was a german so submissive very experienced one, he handle my education as his Master, and to hermann i due all, for sure that dominant qualities that make a master :
- sure of his destiny of leader
- sure that it exists superiors and inferiors in life
- sure to be apart the superior men
- able to listen the knowledge of the inferiors and subs just to integrate that to management
- find natural to be obeyed
- enjoy to protect its assets
- enjoy to train and handle subs

what make me more a dogMaster than a Master is the fact that i love K9 dogs in real and love their total dedication lifes to master, and its a big turnon for me to handle the leash of my dog collared and proud to be on its 4 for master.
Experience and title of master come from real experience and not because its autoproclaimed by oneself.
DogMaster and proud to be, its a big responsibility to train, handle and bring to its doglife a sub.
I once trained a wanabee master, he was with me training some of my dogs, and when i was sure and my dogs too that he was ready to be a Master and not a criminal idiot playing sm, i let him be Master Laurence

SirD
dogmaster and proud of his trained Dogs
searching for new dog to bring to their life

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 8:45:48 AM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I'm confused here? Is there no problem asking a sub if you are doing something for the first time , yet the sub's had experience in it, to make sure that it is being done right? I understand the no reliance part, but if I understand things correctly that it's fine to make sure with the sub that you are doing it properly(like their not in unwanted pain or something too tight), correct?

Let me see if I can clarify with a hypothetical.

I am engaging in negotiations with a submissive and she indicates that she likes to be whipped with a single tail.

A single tail is a fairly dangerous item (both to wielder and target) if used by somebody who has no practice or experience.

So I would

a) Obtain single tail
b) Go to classes and/or consult with single tail experts
c) Practice, practice, practice, practice. Did I mention practicing?
d) Go to a local BDSM club and arrange to have a single tail expert watch.
e) Use single tail on submissive.
f) Check in frequently with submissive to determine that I was giving her good
pain and not bad pain.

In this case, the submissive told me what she wanted to have me do to her. But I did not let her drive. Unless she was a single tail expert, there would be no point in conferring with her on B and C. Since she was off in her Happy Place being single
tailed, I am not sure she would be much help with E, and I think F is just a good
idea so everybody is happy.

Does that clarify my point a bit?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to sirdenisdogmaste)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 11:10:39 AM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterjm2k4

So basically it's like having a driver and a passenger in the car, if you get lost or don't know how to get there(do something) the passenger can always pull out the map and direct you until you find your way(is that a correct metaphor?). I could've cap the M if i wanted to, I guess I didn't learn much about the forum side.

YES!

As for the caps...don't sweat the small stuff.

An ability to know your current limitations, state them without shame and then to work to glean information from whatever source available to you is a GOOD thing. Don't let anybody tell you differently.

As for 'topping from the bottom' - you're sure to experience it (I believe we all eventually do). If it serves your purpose when it's occurring then I say go with it. If you look up to find that you don't like where you've landed then pick another direction. You've learned and that's all good.

That's the really good thing about being wrong, you get to change your mind.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 12:39:28 PM

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

I'm confused here? Is there no problem asking a sub if you are doing something for the first time , yet the sub's had experience in it, to make sure that it is being done right? I understand the no reliance part, but if I understand things correctly that it's fine to make sure with the sub that you are doing it properly(like their not in unwanted pain or something too tight), correct?

Let me see if I can clarify with a hypothetical.

I am engaging in negotiations with a submissive and she indicates that she likes to be whipped with a single tail.

A single tail is a fairly dangerous item (both to wielder and target) if used by somebody who has no practice or experience.

So I would

a) Obtain single tail
b) Go to classes and/or consult with single tail experts
c) Practice, practice, practice, practice. Did I mention practicing?
d) Go to a local BDSM club and arrange to have a single tail expert watch.
e) Use single tail on submissive.
f) Check in frequently with submissive to determine that I was giving her good
pain and not bad pain.

In this case, the submissive told me what she wanted to have me do to her. But I did not let her drive. Unless she was a single tail expert, there would be no point in conferring with her on B and C. Since she was off in her Happy Place being single
tailed, I am not sure she would be much help with E, and I think F is just a good
idea so everybody is happy.

Does that clarify my point a bit?

Sinergy

I understand except for one thing, follow that for all things or are there somethings a sub maybe able to 'guide' you through if a master has never done it before?

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 1:06:17 PM

Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterjm2k4
I understand except for one thing, follow that for all things or are there somethings a sub maybe able to 'guide' you through if a master has never done it before?

I can't speak for masters and/or submissives because that's not my chosen dynamic, but as for sadists and masochists, I can vouch for it being viable.

I've "trained" my own top or two. One of the benefits is that I can teach him/her all the things that I like, and leave out those things that I hate. It also helps having a core group of skilled friends who are willing to contribute to his/her "training" as well. Just watch out that your "friends" aren't teaching your new partner things that you'd rather s/he didn't know. I've run into that problem with people I switch with too - I use some of my best evil tricks on them and they turn around and use them on me the next time!

Really, it depends on your partner. If s/he isn't skilled in a particular area, then s/he's not likely to be able to guide you through it effectively. And for some people who identify as submissive, teaching the dominant partner would simply ruin the dynamic. It's a personal thing - talk to your partner and see how s/he feels about it.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 1:24:42 PM

jm2k4

Posts: 24
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline

I agree it would probably be unwise to have a unskilled sub to help you with something that neither have experience in.

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 1:53:14 PM

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

I agree it would probably be unwise to have a unskilled sub to help you with something that neither have experience in.

For those who keep their play private are there any "how to" videos on things like wax, rope bondage, proper use of certain toys (tens, violet wand, etc), breast bondage, etc. If not maybe a group in the community should make some.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to jm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 2:57:29 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

For those who keep their play private are there any "how to" videos on things like wax, rope bondage, proper use of certain toys (tens, violet wand, etc), breast bondage, etc. If not maybe a group in the community should make some.

The problem with 'how to' anything is liability. Somebody misses a point, does something stupid and damages someone, then you find yourself in court trying to not be held accountable for their stupidity.

It's not wise to underestimate the lengths an insurance carrier will go to to recover funds. It's called subrogation and it happens EVERY day.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 3:03:01 PM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

You can get some pretty good topical information on techniques and safety considerations for different forms of play at

http:www.sexuality.org

Try to remember that it's actually fairly rudimentary information and don't turn it into gospel.

You can also try to find a munch (a social, non-bdsm event, generally held in a public place, where bdsmers come together to meet, network and socialize) at

http://www.darkheart.com/usalist.html

Hope this helps.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to masterjm2k4)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 3:52:39 PM

Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

A single tail is a fairly dangerous item (both to wielder and target) if used by somebody who has no practice or experience.

So I would

a) Obtain single tail
b) Go to classes and/or consult with single tail experts
c) Practice, practice, practice, practice. Did I mention practicing?
d) Go to a local BDSM club and arrange to have a single tail expert watch.
e) Use single tail on submissive.
f) Check in frequently with submissive to determine that I was giving her good
pain and not bad pain.

Does that clarify my point a bit?

Sinergy

To further clarify.. that would be practice practice practice on an inanimate object.. lol.. pillows work well for floggers, dunno about singletails? (Always been afraid of pokin' muh eye out).. guess I would add read, read, read if it's out there.

Just grins and nods in agreement to everything Sinergy said and in the order too,
John

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 4:05:16 PM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

To further clarify.. that would be practice practice practice on an inanimate object.. lol.. pillows work well for floggers, dunno about singletails? (Always been afraid of pokin' muh eye out).. guess I would add read, read, read if it's out there.

Pillows work good for floggers.

For single tails I have heard that you should practice them moving balloons around without popping them, as well as smacking a paper target with them until you can hit
the target without tearing it. For single tails in particular you should wear eye protection and expect to smack yourself in the face many times. I am going to be getting a single tail because I love the beauty of them, but it will be months before I use it on another person. Another important thing is a full face hood designed for submissives being single tailed, and avoid hitting the neck. A good practice is to lay a rolled up towel or a couple of floggers on the submissive's neck.

For a cane, try hitting it against your own leg so you feel how it feels with different amounts of force.

There is a significant difference between asking a person you are playing with "How does that feel when I do X" vs. "How hard should I hit you?" The former is getting information, the second is asking for her to Top what you are doing. When she answers the first question you have to listen to her answer, but remember that what you do with the information is up to you. See comparison to driving.

And while there is a lot of written information on most of this stuff, it is like dancing or martial arts, you will not be able to learn how to do it by reading a book. So the advice on getting out and meeting people and watching what they do is crucial.

Peace out.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to ThornBlood)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 4:09:36 PM

Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I understand except for one thing, follow that for all things or are there somethings a sub maybe able to 'guide' you through if a master has never done it before?

Well there might be some things, but if a sub is experienced in having a singletail used on her, how is that experience in swinging it? *Points back up to Sinergy's post once more*

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: Question about new masters to bdsm - 7/25/2004 4:43:36 PM

Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
For single tails I have heard that you should practice them moving balloons around without popping them, as well as smacking a paper target with them until you can hit the target without tearing it.

I initially practiced on the "bondage bear" - a stuffed bear that used to get tied up in all kinds of interesting rope bondage when people had nothing to do with their hands. The plush animal worked well, because you could see the lines left by the whip in the "fur". It had a small tail which was useful for practicing accuracy, when I got to that point.

quote:

For single tails in particular you should wear eye protection and expect to smack yourself in the face many times.

I never hit myself in the face, but I did manage to snap the thing back onto my hands several times. OUCH!

quote:

I am going to be getting a single tail because I love the beauty of them[

I'd recommend looking at Mike Murphy's whips, which you can find at www.murphywhips.com IMNSHO, he's the best plaiter out there, bar none. The conversion from US currency to AUS dollars is a nice side benefit. He really does beautiful work.

quote:

it will be months before I use it on another person.

That's up to you, of course, but I was told 2 - 3 weeks of 15 minutes/day and you'll generally be accurate enough to throw it at a person. That was true for me, and most everyone else I know who has taken the time to learn.

At some point, the cost/benefit ratio of throwing at inanimate objects simply isn't worth it, imnsho. Stuffed animals can give only limited feedback. You can hit the leaf you want on a bushy tree, or turn the light switch on and off, or bounce a balloon around the room, but you don't have a real concept of how it feels to a *person*, as well as how they move/react to it and how to adjust to that. Once you're reasonably confident in your ability to hit your desired target with the force you want, it's a good idea to find a "stunt bottom" to work on. Someone who has some experience bottoming to singletails and can give you good feedback will be more helpful than all the balloons in the world.

quote:

Another important thing is a full face hood designed for submissives being single tailed, and avoid hitting the neck. A good practice is to lay a rolled up towel or a couple of floggers on the submissive's neck.

That totally wouldn't work for me, as a victim...errr....target I mean. I don't like hoods, to begin with. But also, if I can't see what's going on then I can't give complete feedback. Even if you do want to keep the target's head covered, a full hood isn't necessary. An appropriately sized towel draped over his/her head works satisfactorily, and it's a lot easier (and less expensive) to use. Put a wide leather collar on him/her if you want to protect the neck.

IMNSHO, ymmv, yada yada yada....

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Sinergy)

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