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RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/23/2005 11:15:07 PM

gypsyeyez

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

Well I have to say alot of time there is no tolerance or understanding...

Take for example a Dominant who went into a Room... She stated that She followed something other then SSC She followed RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink.... The Room creator went livid not letting the Woman explain Her Path etc .... Tolerance and Understanding are important Vital and sadly Missing much too often.

As far as the people setting limits about poly and such if the limits are agreed on by both it is not for me to judge... however if such a limit was not discussed and the sub is completely close minded to the idea they could possibly not always but possibly have issues with knowing their place and importance and invaluability to the relationship maybe with reassurance and proper adult communication outside of jealousy which is nothing more then insecurity in my eyes... then the two will be able to move past it.

gypsy

_____________________________

~*~gypsy~*~

The delve into the depths of the soul of another one must first have the guts to search their eyes for hours...
for the eyes truly are the windows of the soul.

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 21

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 12:06:21 AM

Phoenxx

Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline

Hmm an interesting point Six... But are we not all under some limits? The ultimate threat of a Gor Master is that he may put his slave to death without fear of any reprisals.. on Gor. Try that up here in Canada… and you’re a$$ is going to jail…
The law does place limits on what we can and cannot do. It is very intolerant. Step over the line and your in trouble.
We all have lines ourselves that are not safe to step over. A good example would for me would be my children. Hurt them and your going to face me some where… some how…
And if your lucky you get me… if your not … you will get my sweet loving and caring subbie… who will well… I shudder to think of it.. (please note.. not you personally… the generic you the bad guy…)
Otherwise she wouldn’t hurt a fly.
We all, EACH AND EVERYONE, have things we will not tolerate. Just some of us are not as honest about it as others J
True tolerance, in my mind, is not caring what your neighbours do at home. Just if it’s not your thing.. you smile and say talk to you later.
On a side note… I have found most vanilla people more tolerant then most “lifestylers” or different ways of living and loving…
Tony

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 22

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 1:06:15 AM

SirSix72

Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

laws are everywhere...look at the reality of what you are saying here tony,
If I send a slave away it is the same as death to her.........maybe you have read into the books a little to literally come on guy........if ya want to talk about a womans worth in the eyes of the law heere is one for ya to take a peek at........alienation of affection........this is a tort here in the US and what it states is that a woman/man is a piece of property to the husband/wife or potential husband/wife if someone interferes, then the person that interfered is liable for quite a substantial sum of money for placing thy nose in the business of the relationship...yes this does exist but not honored in all states...here in my home state it is and yes I have used it in my proir ten year relationship in this lifestyle and I did win quite a substantail sum of money from the parties that caused the trouble and I have total custiodial rights to both of my children..she and her family have none since I was reminded by all parties that I was the one whom wanted children not them and then the blackmailing began because I was involved in the lifestyle but I did win and I stand proud by my convictions and beliefs

Master Six

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I wish you well

(in reply to Phoenxx)

Post #: 23

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 1:20:47 AM

dallasangel

Posts: 3
Status: offline

I believe there is a difference between being tolerant and what someone wants to experience in their own lives. For example, you mentioned poly… I don’t have a problem with poly and I am friends with poly families but poly isn’t what I seek in a relationship.

It’s the same with many aspects of BDSM…. for example, I wouldn’t be attracted to someone who was looking for an extreme pain slut because S&M is not what attracts me to the lifestyle. I wouldn’t be interested in dating a cross dresser because that would be a turn off for me. I started to get to know a Dom who wanted me to wear diapers and act like an infant at all times when I was at home… that type of play wasn’t something I was interested in.

It’s just a matter of finding someone with compatible desires and needs.

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 24

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 1:23:36 AM

dallasangel

Posts: 3
Status: offline

BTW, Master Six ... if I was into poly you would be the first person I would call. ;)

(in reply to dallasangel)

Post #: 25

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 1:35:58 AM

imtempting

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
in Aussie terms, "He's my mate and you fuck with him you fuck with me". I figure y'all get my meaning.

I understand it :D but I am Aussie. woot im not on your arguing list :D

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I have limits, and to me they are hard limits. If you break one, that will end up being a bad thing. This isn't something I just decided one day ... these are things that are part of me, for good reason. I don't force anyone to be with me, I don't want help overcoming my problems, and anyone that thinks that limits them, is free to walk away.

To use an analogy ... if you wanted to date a girl that was six foot tall, and asked me out ... it would be silly for you to say I'm somehow limiting you, because I'm only five foot four.

I agree with that :)

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 26

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 3:30:23 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

First, i am honored IronBear considers me a friend...as i do He and Neets, His Wife and Companion. The thing about tolerance (understanding set aside for the moment) is the "hot button" issues of mysoginy, abuse, and bigotry. i was just contacted this morning by a Man who is African American but seeks a white slave. i don't understand the kink and it makes my hair bristle...i want to criticise Him but i'm unsure whether or not to do it...so i let it go..

The thing about abuse -- the sort we can all agree on, such as sending a woman to the ER -- is that i have said it can be avoided by following one's instincts and getting some hard, verifiable information before being alone with a Dom or Master. i got so much crap for saying things like this i have thrown in the towel.

The thing about bigotry is i have not tolerated it in my life before BDSM and see no reason to do so now. i'm talking about ethnic, religious, racial, and sexual orientation bashing. i kid around about being scottish, but i will always respond angrily when someone takes a swipe at another due to these descriptors.

Understanding is hard. My learning curve when i first found D/s in jan '04 was extremely steep...and remains so. i do not understand playing with scat or pee...i do not understand many s/m activities. i know what they are...i just do not understand why people do such things. But i have learned to let the person be...and i have friends who are sadists, poly, etc., whom i love dearly...though i could not understand fully their "kink".

This is the problem as i see it: an opinion is expressed, and a member takes issue with it, but rather than staying on-point, they attack the poster. i vividly remember FlButtSlut discussing her sorrow over losing one of her dogs, and someone posting that she was inadequate and should not even have a child...that she should put the child up for adoption. i cannot understand such cruelty...FlButtSlut needed compassion and kindness due to her loss, and at least one member decided to kick her while she was down.

It has happened to me as well; i once posted a thread on sadness...due primarialy to the dwindling hope that i'd ever find a Dom or Master...many people were kind and supportive but others jumped me and kicked me whilst i was down as well. i think some people are just cruel.

i cannot understand the posts about "limiting the Dom"; what i seek is highly personal and i have developed an idea of what sort of relationship/Man would make me happy. i do not understand why this serves as a limitation on the Doms; no one has claimed me yet (though i have explored a relationship with some Doms) and i have failed to find a Dom or Master who fulfills my needs/wants/desires...so i do not bother Men who cannot or become Their friend. i fail to see why seeking what i need/want/desire sets limits on anyone...the Men are free to end the discussion just as i am.

It would be a significant improvement to the boards if we treated one another with mutual respect, and stayed away from flaming, but some people post such incendiary things that is very hard. So it's a conundrum; do i allow the cruel remarks to go by and say nothing, or do i call the member who posted them to task? i'm still unsure.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/24/2005 3:43:54 AM >

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Post #: 27

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 4:28:28 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Maybe if someone has a shot in a nasty way at someone who has posted nothing to attract the negative responce, instrad of using a soap box to call the "offender out" another way might be to ask the person why thay posted as they did and what the person being flames did to deserve it.... I'd lay odds that the reason is a personal dislike baybe from something the flamed person posted weeks ago, or the jealousy of the percieved popularity of the flamee, certainly nothing to do with the thread.... Lots of fragile egos out their in cyber land and if you inadvertantly pop their bubble they're going to hate you because they lack maturity to get over it.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 28

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 4:34:59 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

Maybe if someone has a shot in a nasty way at someone who has posted nothing to attract the negative responce, instrad of using a soap box to call the "offender out" another way might be to ask the person why thay posted as they did and what the person being flames did to deserve it.... I'd lay odds that the reason is a personal dislike baybe from something the flamed person posted weeks ago, or the jealousy of the percieved popularity of the flamee, certainly nothing to do with the thread.... Lots of fragile egos out their in cyber land and if you inadvertantly pop their bubble they're going to hate you because they lack maturity to get over it.

IronBear

Excellent advice, Sir. i agree with You that there are people who will take issue with whatever i post out of an irrational dislike of me arising from past discourses...and i agree that asking a flamer what they meant and why is a superior response to attacking them. Thank You for Your wise counsel.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/24/2005 4:36:06 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 4:35:38 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Ironbear:

quote:

If it wasn't inappripriate and that bloody oversized duck pond wasn't in the way, I'd be seriously tempted to hug you

thank you
inappropriate hug back at ya!

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 30

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 4:37:01 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

My pleasure you sexy, classy lady you...

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 31

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 4:39:18 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

My pleasure you sexy, classy lady you...

IronBear

i see You are enjoying Your perogative as the only member permited to call me a "lady", ROFLMAO.

pinkpleasures

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Post #: 32

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 8:28:22 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

these Dominants automatically give into these limits which I can understand

6,
I don't think there is too much to understand.

Dominants come in all flavors. Some of the most dominant people in the lifestyle are submissives; some even call themselves slaves. They demand or expect sensations provided by another person. They call this person a "dom". It doesn't make him/her one. This person is a facilitator. He facilitates the process that the relationship dom dictates. As long as both parties are achieving desired personal satisfaction it should matter not to anyone else. Avoid them, ignore them, observe and be entertained if you're so inclined.

Seeking education at this site is very different than asking for advice and then, because of peer pressure, changing your behavior. That type of action indicates a major lack of confidence. Not seeking what you desire, or inhibiting your desire because of embarrassment or image indicates a lack of confidence. Please don't take an example of wanting to disembowel a person and finding out it wasn't a good idea to challenge the point. I'm speaking of poly, scat, permanent marking, or simply the definition of slave.

Use other's definitions and experiences as benchmarks or reference points. Try to experience and learn about everything you can in a broad a spectrum of media as you can. The most important part of the process is self analysis. You have to know you intimately and be confident. Tolerance is accepting differences, it's not changing yourself to eliminate them. Some advocates don't allow differences. They see argument as a personal attack. It comes back to that word confidence. If you are not sure in who/what you are you will perceive argument and debate as an attack.

Debate is an important part of developing confidence. Welcome it - just come to the dance with a foundation of personal strength and self-awareness and you won't see the conflict as a personal challenge but as an opportunity to fortify and confirm what you know is true.

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 33

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 8:33:14 AM

Phoenxx

Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

laws are everywhere...look at the reality of what you are saying here tony,
If I send a slave away it is the same as death to her.........maybe you have read into the books a little to literally come on guy........if ya want to talk about a womans worth in the eyes of the law heere is one for ya to take a peek at........alienation of affection........this is a tort here in the US and what it states is that a woman/man is a piece of property to the husband/wife or potential husband/wife if someone interferes, then the person that interfered is liable for quite a substantial sum of money for placing thy nose in the business of the relationship...

I hope you are not thinking that because I have a different map then you do, I do not respect you, your views or your opinions. I'm betting we are one of the very few men around that kicked out an ex and kept our kids. Come to think of it… it might have been nice if the law did allow… never mind LOL
Having said that... there is a huge difference between sending someone away in our society and death. There are societies out there where banishing someone is a fate worse then death. Not the one we live in, even if we do not follow or agree with everything in it. But if your girl displeased you to the that point, I would doubt she would give a damn about banishment. It's back to the Velcro collar problem. If she had enough respect, you wouldn’t have the problem. If she doesn’t she isn’t right for your relationship.
And you have that right to banish her. But if you have children with her, you will have to deal with visitation rights, school meetings etc…
The state you live in may have a different set of rules and laws… but up here in Canada our lovely, all knowing and wonderful government has this idea that BOTH parents MUST be involved in the raising of children. Even if one was abusive to the children. Nice huh? That does go a long way to say the difference between them.
Laws do not have to make sense… they just have to have enough votes…
And yes I was being literal about the book.
Tony

(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 34

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 12:04:54 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

"hot button" issues of mysoginy, abuse, and bigotry. i was just contacted this morning by a Man who is African American but seeks a white slave. i don't understand the kink and it makes my hair bristle...i want to criticise Him but i'm unsure whether or not to do it...so i let it go..

Pink you didn't clarify why he seeked a white slave, and the fact that he seeks to have a D/s relationship with a white lady in no way indicates bigotry to me...
If you say he spoke in a way that indicated he has issues and seeks to be abusive to a white lady, than I certainly understand him making you uncomfortable; I can't tell you how many people (white men) I've had to turn down exactly because of that approach: they contact me telling me how I should abuse and humiliate them, as well as never fuck them because I would despise them too much for such a relationship, clearly indicating that a lot of people get into this lifestyle to work out complicated issues in their minds instead of seeking professional help, and that is very sad to me.

I was recently seriously annoyed by an old man (who should know better, and seemed plenty intelligent) who wrote to me with a bunch of assumptions about why I'd want to have a white slave; after asking if he asked white mistresses that same question, he came back with bullshit feigning concern for black women's struggles in society, and that is when I let him have it, than reported him to administration. I would reply to the man, and ask him to dump his garbage/baggage elsewhere, while also taking the time to seek some professional help, as that is exactly what I've done that a few times to my responders. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 35

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 1:15:55 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

Pink you didn't clarify why he seeked a white slave, and the fact that he seeks to have a D/s relationship with a white lady in no way indicates bigotry to me...
If you say he spoke in a way that indicated he has issues and seeks to be abusive to a white lady, than I certainly understand him making you uncomfortable; I can't tell you how many people (white men) I've had to turn down exactly because of that approach: they contact me telling me how I should abuse and humiliate them, as well as never fuck them because I would despise them too much for such a relationship, clearly indicating that a lot of people get into this lifestyle to work out complicated issues in their minds instead of seeking professional help, and that is very sad to me.

BlkTallFullfig

BlkTallFulFig; first of all, a Black Man seeking a slave creeps me out, but it's not my place to speak for anyone else. Add to that the racial requirement that His slave be white, and i am further creeped out. And yes, i'm sure it works in reverse; i guess it's the requirement that one's slave be a certain ethnicity that makes me uncomfortable; why is it a requirement?

As for being contacted by an abuser; i know what you mean there too. Sometimes it's not as direct as you describe; but i did battered women's defense work for years and there's a certain way such men approach a woman that tips it off for me. Being contacted by such a man makes me feel a bit frightened...but i know he cannot find me and i am safe.

i hope no one is offended by my sensibilities; i know they are mine and mine alone.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/24/2005 1:17:07 PM >

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Post #: 36

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 2:53:26 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

quote:

BlkTallFulFig; first of all, a Black Man seeking a slave creeps me out, but it's not my place to speak for anyone else. Add to that the racial requirement that His slave be white, and i am further creeped out. And yes, i'm sure it works in reverse; i guess it's the requirement that one's slave be a certain ethnicity that makes me uncomfortable; why is it a requirement?

Wow!....I find this comment totally racist. So is it your belief that Black(Dom) men, in your eye's should not own a slave? Maybe white women are his preference, as white men are your's, mine happens to be Italian women. Why does this preference of his creep you out or cause you to feel uncomfortable? i did battered women's defense work for years and there's a certain way such men approach a woman that tips it off for me. Being contacted by such a man makes me feel a bit frightened...but i know he cannot find me and i am safe.

Can you please explain such approaches that tip you off and why would you feel unsafe about this man?
i hope no one is offended by my sensibilities; i know they are mine and mine alone.

I'm sorry but I am offended, and am offended for my friend BTFF. This is some of the most blatant racism I have see on these boards, and you call them sensibilities, how do you justify what you said as being sensible?
Owning these words as your's and your's alone does not lesson your disrepect. Owning those statement's gives us all a good look inside of what you are about, part being that you give not a second of a thought to writing words that speak and show blatant racism.

I dated a defense lawyer for sometime and I do not understand how you could even represent in a court of law, holding the belief's you do, or did you only represent rich white people?

Not meaning to flame you, this was just my gut reaction to your words and thought it necessary to state my feelings.

*Brightspot

< Message edited by brightspot -- 10/24/2005 3:27:58 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 3:17:11 PM

WickedKev

Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline

Have to say you come across as a Dom eager to learn which I for one think is great as none of us should ever stop learning. I personnaly am not into Gor. I did read one of his books, and I did like some of his views on slavery but not all and I thought it wasn't very well written. But I know Gor has a huge following and more power to them. Keep the questions coming you have started some of the most interesting threads on here. Respects WK

_____________________________

Those who can make you believe absurdities
can make you commit atrocities.
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It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong
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(in reply to SirSix72)

Post #: 38

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 6:05:48 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

I'm sorry but I am offended, and am offended for my friend BTFF. This is some of the most blatant racism I have see on these boards, and you call them sensibilities , how do you justify what you said as being sensible?
Owning these words as your's and your's alone does not lesson your disrepect. Owning those statement's gives us all a good look inside of what you are about, part being that you give not a second of a thought to writing words that speak and show blatant racism .

I dated a defense lawyer for sometime and I do not understand how you could even represent in a court of law, holding the belief's you do, or did you only represent rich white people?

Not meaning to flame you, this was just my gut reaction to your words and thought it necessary to state my feelings.

brightspot

i find your attack nothing to be surprised about....you have a habit of doing so. See, e.g., http://www.collarchat.com/m_155905/mpage_3/key_brightspot/tm.htm#156648

i think you have deliberating misunderstood me...my 1st point is that for a Black Man...a Man inheriting a century of racsism and slavery...to seek out a slave creeps me out. i cannot quite understand how He could do it, with the historical connotations it carries.

My next point is that i find it creepy that a Black Man would be seeking only white women as a slave...just as it would if a white man were seeking only Black women, which i have no doubt goes on. i cannot understand the "kink" involved in needing a slave to be of a certain ethnicity.

Finally i said i knew i did not speak for anyone else, and that i made no comment to the Black Man who contacted me...because this area of BDSM leaves me confused; i did not condemn these people; i simply said it was very hard for me to understand and accept.

i have not heard from BlkTallFullFig and she has not weighed in here on my post; but it is obvious to anyone reading my body of posts that i am a nut when it comes to bigots; they make me crazed. i'm not sure why you felt you needed to try and speak on her behalf; myself, i'll wait to see if she wants to criticise what i said. Calling me a racist won't wash with people who know me, brightspot.

i appreciate that you asked for the "tip offs" that indicate a man is abusive...however, i posted a thread here on "preventing abuse" in which i tried to identify such markers and it went so far sideways i asked that it be pulled. Apparently the idea that abuse can be prevented angers many people. The comments BlkTallFullFig received seem like harrassment worthy of reporting to me; i was speaking of more subtle remarks.

Telling me i am unworthy to practice law is just plain silly; i have no bigotry and have spent my career being a civil servant or pro bono lawyer, working for the poor, the elderly and the battered women and their children. i am quite proud of my career.

All i have learnt is you have some hidden agenda that makes you flame me. In correspondence with IronBear's advice, i am now asking you to share it with me so we can resolve it...preferably in emails to keep personality conflicts off the boards.

i just want to make this point before ending: interracial couples and their children are as deserving of respect as anyone; but what bothered me is that the Man who contacted me sought "only" such a relationship; was not looking for Character or Honor, but first and foremost a certain ethnic group...and i found that disturbing, as evidentially BlkTallFullFig has as well. If you feel i am not entitled to be disturbed, or that such discomfort indicates racism, you misunderstand what i wrote and who i am.

Check out http://www.collarchat.com/m_154853/mpage_5/key_Lam/tm.htm#156734

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/24/2005 7:42:51 PM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Tolerence and Understanding - 10/24/2005 6:21:04 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

I think the lack of understanding feeds the other.

People should really learn to pay more attention to what is said-rather than what they prefer was said.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 40

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