RE: When will it end?...... (Full Version)

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Zensee -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 8:03:07 PM)

Let us not forget the poor octopi. They got no choice in this tradition. But it's a tradition and that's... um... traditional... so we have to keep doing it.

Interesting link to an article about the Mimic Octopus . At least as fascinating as a hockey game.


Z.



Lordandmaster -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 8:04:06 PM)

Octopodes, actually.  (The word is Greek, not Latin.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Let us not forget the poor octopi.



Owner59 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 8:07:57 PM)

Nope,it`s American and octopuses..[;)]



Lordandmaster -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/25/2008 9:47:26 PM)

My favorite weird Greek plurals:

Clitoris (singular), clitorides (plural)
Octopus (singluar), octopodes (plural)
Rhinoceros (singular), rhinocerontes (plural)
Schema (singular), schemata (plural)
Stigma (singular), stigmata (plural)

I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of'em at this hour.



Zensee -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/26/2008 7:44:41 AM)

Thanks for the clarification, LaM but I'm guessing the ocotopodes don't much care what I call them as long as it isn't hockey accessory.


Z.



Irishknight -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/26/2008 12:01:47 PM)

Would it be better if they used squids and made calamari for the spectators later?  It would at least be tastier.



Lordandmaster -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/26/2008 1:52:00 PM)

They're a whole lot smarter than most people think, but I doubt they're ready for Greek plurals quite yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Thanks for the clarification, LaM but I'm guessing the ocotopodes don't much care what I call them as long as it isn't hockey accessory.



christine1 -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/26/2008 1:58:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Would it be better if they used squids and made calamari for the spectators later?  It would at least be tastier.


i don't know, i've never been a fan of cold calamari....[8|]



rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 8:13:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

I love bikes and have a soft spot for bikers.  If you don't want to wear a helmet, don't.  But please be an organ donor, because your organs will be in pristine condition when you die of massive head trauma.


Well, we can get in a discussion here about helmets and their preventing head injury as opposed to creating neck and spinal cord injuries.  Personally I'll take being being the organ donor over the Christopher Reeve route.  He was wearing a helmet, by the way, when he was thrown from that horse.



Alumbrado -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 8:28:31 AM)

Or you could ask this longtime anti-helmet activist...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/08/01/nohelmet.death.ap/



Irishknight -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 8:37:01 AM)

Honestly, the helmet is not as big a life saver as many think.  They cause neck injuries and spinal cord injuries in some cases.  In others, people have been killed while the medical professionals tried to remove the helmet.  In a low speed accident, they are great.  In a high speed accident where you fly through the air and stop by striking something really hard, they aren't so great.  My cousin, a motorcycle cop died recently due to injuries in an accident.  He was wearing his helmet.  It didn't stop the impact from breaking his ribs and shoving them through organs that are now too damaged to donate.  His head was OK though.
I still wear mine when I ride because a little protection is better than none.



rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 8:46:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Yes, I know.  It's always interesting when people can't support their arguments and have to resort to phrases like "it's a known fact" or that it's common sense.  If this fact is so "well known" I would think you could at least provide me a link so I could educate myself.



I very well could have missed it, but, having way too much time on my hands, I went through the site and didn't see anything that said seatbelts are designed to help prevent a collision.  While I do see your point, you would have to be getting tossed around pretty violently (like in a high-speed off-road situation) for the seatbelt to be of any use in keeping you in your seat before a crash.  It's designed to keep you in your seat during the impact after a crash is inevitable.     


http://auto.howstuffworks.com/seatbelt.htm


      There you go RML.  I don't know that something so simple, and well known among drivers requires a supporting link.  I made a choice whenever I got behind the wheel of that old truck, and I don't think it should have been an illegal choice, but I certainly wore the belt when I was bouncing around off-road.



rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 8:58:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Pardon me rulemylife but where are the links supporting your assertions?

Links have been provided by others but you don't seem to have read the thread. I'm not responsible for coordinating the case in favour of seatbelts, for your benefit.

You don't need a link to understand that a seatbelt is much more likely to keep you in the driver's seat than no seatbelt. I am sorry you have not encountered this principle so far, during your driver training. Now you know.



Z.


Well, that's the second time time you've accused me of  "not reading the thread"  which begs the question of why I would be wasting my time responding to you if I hadn't.  Which further begs the question of why you need to resort to that to begin with other than to distract from the weakness of your own argument.

I'm happy to document anything you have a question about.  Ask and you shall receive.  I can't, however, document my opinions.  You weren't offering me your opinions though.  You were stating what you called "well known facts" which I merely asked you to cite. 



rulemylife -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 9:14:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Or you could ask this longtime anti-helmet activist...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/08/01/nohelmet.death.ap/


Without me having to prove it, I think you know we can trade links like this all day long. I can give you just as many examples of motorcyclists dying from head injuries wearing a helmet.  Most of these deaths, whether on motorcycles or in cars result from brain injury, from the force of the impact jarring the brain around inside the skull.  There have been numerous studies to suggest that wearing a helmet actually exacerbates this from the weight and drag of the helmet.



Alumbrado -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 9:31:38 AM)

I'm sure that people can dig up links all day long 'proving' that we never went to the moon, or that the earth is flat, or that GWBush blew up the Twin Towers.
And I have no doubt that with enough straw arguments that safety devices don't work 100% of the time, anyone can support which ever side of a debate they wish.


But specious logic still tap dances around the question of why everyone else should pay the costs associated with pseudo-'rebels' pretending that no rules, not even gravity, much less personal responsibility, apply to them.





Alumbrado -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 9:58:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Honestly, the helmet is not as big a life saver as many think.  They cause neck injuries and spinal cord injuries in some cases.  In others, people have been killed while the medical professionals tried to remove the helmet.  In a low speed accident, they are great.  In a high speed accident where you fly through the air and stop by striking something really hard, they aren't so great.  My cousin, a motorcycle cop died recently due to injuries in an accident.  He was wearing his helmet.  It didn't stop the impact from breaking his ribs and shoving them through organs that are now too damaged to donate.  His head was OK though.
I still wear mine when I ride because a little protection is better than none.


Exactly the point.  A lot of cops die from heart disease... by some logic their bulletproof vests are no good because they didn't prevent them from dying.

A helmet, seat belt, air bag, ABS, vest, insurance, etc.  reduces specific chances, nothing more than that. 
People who want to increase those chances shouldn't be given a free pass to have everyone else pick up after them.

Those who post a huge bond if they want to drive without insurance, prepay all their own medical and accident cleanup expenses, can then talk about being a rebel....[:D]



Irishknight -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 10:05:26 AM)

I agree that if you don't at least try to protect yourself, there should be no public dollars spent to keep you alive in the hospital for years.  I think, if you want to play it dangerous, then you can and should be allowed.  Just don't ask me to pay for it if you get effed up.
I don't expect the rest of you to pay for my care when and if I have an accident jousting.  Thats what my insurance is for. 



TheHeretic -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 7:09:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
But specious logic still tap dances around the question of why everyone else should pay the costs associated with pseudo-'rebels' pretending that no rules, not even gravity, much less personal responsibility, apply to them.



      But there's the thing, Alum.  I didn't consistently leave the lap belt dangling to be a rebel.  They passed the seat belt law because you are much more likely to be hurt without a belt, than with one, but the law makes no account for the (much rarer, admittedly) instances where a seat belt is going to do more harm than good.  It was an understanding of gravity, and personal responsibility, that made me choose to risk a ticket damn near every time I drove that old beast.

       Using a lap belt, in a rigid framed old pick-up, isn't as statistically comforting as wearing the seat belt in a Volvo.  In a head-on/rollover, the injuries from that seat belt will be better than dying.  In a more garden variety crash, the risk of spinal injury is dramatically increased.  Seems a rather personal choice for Congress to be making for me.

       Maybe the bean-counters had decided that the costs of treating my injuries would be acceptable.  Maybe they had even run the numbers and worked out that even though Skippy Dumbass wouldn't have insurance because he spent the payment on a goddamn vanity plate, the lives saved by other seatbelts would cover my wheelchair, SSDI, medi-care, etc.  I'm not ok with that, especially when it becomes illegal for me to not play along.

     



Alumbrado -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 7:58:53 PM)

quote:

but the law makes no account for the (much rarer, admittedly) instances where a seat belt is going to do more harm than good. 


Well, I started my comments in particular response to those who claimed they were rebels thumbing their nose at the 'man' by refusing to carry insurance, or wear helmets, etc.

On your point, a lot of ostensibly beneficial things have a point of diminishing returns, or exceptions in rare cases, but that is part of the problem in a society, once the population grows to a certain point, it can only deal with the most likely scenarios....leading to regulatory overkill, which I'm not too terribly fond of either. 








Irishknight -> RE: When will it end?...... (5/27/2008 8:04:12 PM)

Actually, some states make allowances for cars before a certain year due to the lap belt danger.  Cars made before seat belts are usually exempt so that you do not have to damage the car's value.  Not every state has these exemptions but you can always check to see if yours does.



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