One of those Hypothetical Scenarios...

One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (Full Version)

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MadRabbit -> One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 2:49:11 PM)
Recently, I've gone back to searching and dating again since the ending of a long-distance relationship. One of the young girls I met recently I liked genuinely as a person and was interested in seeing her again. However, there is one incredibly huge difference between us and that is she has a style of appearance that is a mesh between a Goth kid and an Emo kid. A dog collor, ecentric amounts of jewelry, conspicous outrageous piercings, dark colored, baggy, worn-out clothing, and a freakish looking haircut that basically consists of long hair in the front and a buzz cut in the back. As a budding conversative entrepeneur, this is pretty much the dymetric opposite of what I like my girls to be. In fact, it took a lot to keep my mouth from hanging half open at first sight of her. But... She has potential. She has a good figure and is not a bad looking girl. She could be absolutely stunning in the right dress with some good makeup, a much better haircut, and other femine products. This might sound to be very shallow, but it's really not an issue of appearance, but rather more of an issue of compatibility. If you, as a dominant, were presented with this type of scenario where the apperance and dress of a potential submissive would require major change for them to be on par with your standards, would you attempt to invest the time or in the face of such drastic changes, do you think it should be chalked to "non-compatible"?

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 2:52:59 PM)
im not a master, but the first thing that came to my mind was......why not ask her if she would be willing to change her style in order to have a relationship with you? her style could be something she is very attached to and unwilling to give up-or it could be a way of keeping folks away so she doesnt have to deal with them. or it could be a host of many other things. my 2 cents

SirMIkeSD -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 2:56:45 PM)
I have my rules as to what my boys can wear, if they don't agree to it then they are not right for me. Mike

AquaticSub -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:00:23 PM)
Shortly into our relationship Valyraen took me shopping and helped me pick out what I affectionately call "grown-up" clothes. Some nice tops and slacks that I can wear out to dressy events because he was tired of me only having clothes covered in paint. However, he didn't ask me to get rid of my odd jewelry, jeans that I'd turned into shorts, or t-shirts with goofy/smart-ass logos on them. He just asked that I wear the right clothes for the time and place. Do you want her to completely to change her style or let her be her gothy self at the mall and more sophisicated when you ask? While people who aren't into body modification may not understand, piercings as well as tattoos can have deep personal meaning. Her attire may be a phase, it may be what she thought you wanted to see, or could simply be who she is and how she wants to express herself. While I'm not an owner, I'd suggest that you figure out what you can honestly be happy with and then talk to her about it. Sometimes these things are worth changing but sometimes I do think it's best to move on and let them find someone who really loves that look.

Bound2One -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:00:28 PM)
While I'm not a dominant, I did want to share my point of view as a female. For a woman to change from what you describe she is into what it is you desire in a companion is going to be a huge leap. Perhaps one that is too big for her to even contemplate making for someone - or perhaps one that she is ready to make for the right person. You would need to talk with her about it, if you can stomach bringing up as sensitive a topic as this with someone you don't know very well. Obviously you risk insulting her because she is not up to your standards in certain ways, even though you see potential for her to meet those standards. That's a tough position to take and she'll have to be very secure to have that conversation with you and be able to handle it maturely. Perhaps you could bring it up over drinks and comment on her appearance, which she obviously cultivates, without sounding judgmental about it. You would get a better read on whether she's really committed to it or if it's just a passing fad for her (though this doesn't sound likely). Also - when someone makes a statement with their appearance - something drastic such as what you describe, there's usually a very strong reason they do so. My guess is that she's not going to leave behind a persona she's cultivated easily, if ever. What is it that attracted you to her in the first place if the outward appearance was the opposite of what you generally go for? Was it her personality after speaking with her? The possibility of what laid beneath the off-putting exterior?

ownedgirlie -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:09:11 PM)
It is my opinion that she will ultimately decide what her priority is - wearing what she wears or submitting to you. Whichever is most important to her is what she will do. I personally have no issue with my Master requiring me to dress a certain way, whether occasionally or permanently. But not everyone is me and it really depends on what the girl's priority is.

MadRabbit -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:11:28 PM)
Thanks to everyone who replied with great posts. quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Do you want her to completely to change her style or let her be her gothy self at the mall and more sophisicated when you ask? I think the goth thing is pretty hot when done in moderation. Mostly what I think I am looking for is moderation in it or at least what I consider moderation. This is a new issue for me. I deal with issues as they arise in my experiences and I have never really had this issue before where I dated someone who was so off the ball as to what I want a girl to look like. I am pretty layed back when it comes to clothing and she can be her gothy self as long as it's hot to me, but she is not going out to dinner at Magnolia's with me looking like that. quote: ORIGINAL: Bound2One What is it that attracted you to her in the first place if the outward appearance was the opposite of what you generally go for? Was it her personality after speaking with her? The possibility of what laid beneath the off-putting exterior? Yeah, I like her as a person. She has this kind of nerdy, innocent book worm type thing going on and it reminds me a lot of me when I was younger.

MadRabbit -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:14:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bound2One You would need to talk with her about it, if you can stomach bringing up as sensitive a topic as this with someone you don't know very well. Obviously you risk insulting her because she is not up to your standards in certain ways, even though you see potential for her to meet those standards. I think my biggest problem is the fact that I have absolutely no issue bringing up that kind of topic to her. I seem to have quite a habit of offending people without even realizing it. Edited to Add : I'm working on that though lol

Alumbrado -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:15:12 PM)
quote: If you, as a dominant, were presented with this type of scenario where the apperance and dress of a potential submissive would require major change for them to be on par with your standards, would you attempt to invest the time or in the face of such drastic changes, A better question might be, if this potential submissive would really want someone trying to change who they are in that manner? Gettin a 'Yes' to that would clear the way for further questions.

AquaticSub -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:20:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Do you want her to completely to change her style or let her be her gothy self at the mall and more sophisicated when you ask? I think the goth thing is pretty hot when done in moderation. Mostly what I think I am looking for is moderation in it or at least what I consider moderation. This is a new issue for me. I deal with issues as they arise in my experiences and I have never really had this issue before where I dated someone who was so off the ball as to what I want a girl to look like. I am pretty layed back when it comes to clothing and she can be her gothy self as long as it's hot to me, but she is not going out to dinner at Magnolia's with me looking like that. In that case talk I'd definately suggest talking to her about it. Explain that you love the goth look so that she knows you aren't asking her to get rid of it but that you would also love to see other looks on her. Be clear that it would be required for when you go out. My only big piece advice for you there is to figure out what level of moderation will work for the both of you. Maybe if she's been dressing up a lot for you, you can arrange to take her to a goth club. If you want her to hide her obvious piercings in certain situations, maybe you could buy her the clear retainers so her holes doen't close. Good luck! [:)]

MadRabbit -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:29:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: If you, as a dominant, were presented with this type of scenario where the apperance and dress of a potential submissive would require major change for them to be on par with your standards, would you attempt to invest the time or in the face of such drastic changes, A better question might be, if this potential submissive would really want someone trying to change who they are in that manner? Gettin a 'Yes' to that would clear the way for further questions. I'm smart enough to realize this issue is one that is really only answerable from her, but the speculation and the suggestions offered are giving me things to consider when approaching her. I've never been presented with this kind of issue before and don't want to be an asshole.

Quivver -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:29:21 PM)
To say what you want to say and have it not be construed as critisism is going to involved tact and some talent. I have full faith in you my dear Rabbit, you will find the words. Whats done with them once said may be harder then saying them. My best to you!

Bound2One -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:29:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Yeah, I like her as a person. She has this kind of nerdy, innocent book worm type thing going on and it reminds me a lot of me when I was younger. Oh, god, now see .. that's just damn cute. Go for it - you're attracted to the right things. How often are we attracted to what's on the outside without realizing what's on the inside? Here, you're starting out attracted to the inside regardless of what's on the outside. That's important!

Bound2One -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:30:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I think my biggest problem is the fact that I have absolutely no issue bringing up that kind of topic to her. I seem to have quite a habit of offending people without even realizing it. Edited to Add : I'm working on that though lol LOL! I see. Just try and be gentle ...

MadRabbit -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 3:31:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver To say what you want to say and have it not be construed as critisism is going to involved tact and some talent. I have full faith in you my dear Rabbit, you will find the words. Whats done with them once said may be harder then saying them. My best to you! Yeah...that tact thing again....lol I appreciate the confidence.

RedMagic1 -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 4:17:54 PM)
It's irrelevant. What's relevant is WHY she dresses that way. What is she trying to express to the world? to balance inside herself? If someone were sick, would you focus on the symptom, or the cause? "Why do you dress the way you dress?" "Cuz." "No really, I want to know." And the kicker here is you really do have to want to know, and be patient until she figures out the answer. If you can respect the motivations that are important in her life, and she can respect the motivations that are important in your life, together you'll be able to figure out some way to externalize that.

Padriag -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 4:55:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit This might sound to be very shallow, but it's really not an issue of appearance, but rather more of an issue of compatibility. If you, as a dominant, were presented with this type of scenario where the apperance and dress of a potential submissive would require major change for them to be on par with your standards, would you attempt to invest the time or in the face of such drastic changes, do you think it should be chalked to "non-compatible"? My friend, first off don't trouble yourself if its shallow or not. You are entitled to want anything you damn well please... its your life after all. Just make sure you can afford whatever it is. Second, set some standards for yourself and stick to them. I mean REALLY stick to them. If her appearance doesn't fit with your requirements, she either has to change, be willing to change or hit the road. The options are pretty much that simple. Think about what standards you want for yourself and your reasons, make sure you know what you want and why. Here's a recent example from my own life that might help. Back just before xmas I met a local gal who works at a dept store. She's cute and when she puts some effort into it is a damn snazzy dresser, plus she seems pretty cheerful and a lil on the smart side too. I like her. I had flirted with her for a few months without asking her out... mainly because at the time I just didn't have the time to date. Well, the night I decide to ask her out and just as I'm about too, I find out she smokes. That's a deal breaker for me because I'm VERY allergic to tobacco and plus I just think it stinks and is very unappealing. So I asked her if she was trying to quit, she said she was. So I gave her some incentive, quit smoking and I'd take her out to dinner anywhere she wanted to go (she said Sonic, I upgraded that to a local Japanese steak house... I do have my standards). Months go by and she hasn't quit yet and I figured it was a lost cause... oh well. Then this past Friday guess who strolls into my coffee shop... and makes a point of letting me know she had quit smoking and the next Sunday off... funny how things work out. Trust me, stick to your guns. You can either try to change this girl yourself... or set your expectations and challenge her to meet them. Which course you take is up to you. If she's willing and interested in you enough you'd be amazed how much many will change to suit you. If she isn't, it wouldn't have worked out anyway and you're better off moving on. I've gone both routes, and which often depends more on how much spare time I have. Right now I don't have much, so I tend to set challenges as with the girl above. In the end, its up to you. Stick to your standards and call the ball, then let things fall where they may and don't look back. If she bends for you... she's yours, if not, she never would have been.

antipode -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 5:31:54 PM)
You say it is not an issue of appearance, but quote: rather more of an issue of compatibility. . You also say she could be "stunning in the right dress", and you mention changes needed for her to be "on par with your standards". What you write is confusing, as you appear to have selected an incompatible person. To me a person is either stunning or not, this really has little to do with her "appearance" (I'll be charitable and assume she showers and stuff). You state, at any rate, that is is not about appearance, then to go on to state that it is. I would think that this woman, the way you describe her, is a complete entity, the way she presents herself, and changing that would change her. I can, from the way you express yourself, only come to the conclusion you are yourself immature, and that your "standards" are a veneer you apply because you don't understand how women are put together. Your mention of you're being a "budding conservative entrepreneur" further confuses the issue, because that is a standard applicable to vanilla relationships, which isn't what this forum is about. As you get older, you will hopefully learn that changing a partner to confirm your self image is something that invariably leads to failure - is that why your long distance relationship ended, perhaps?

celticlord2112 -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 5:39:26 PM)
quote: If you, as a dominant, were presented with this type of scenario where the apperance and dress of a potential submissive would require major change for them to be on par with your standards, would you attempt to invest the time or in the face of such drastic changes, do you think it should be chalked to "non-compatible"? Does she cry and stamp her feet when you take the pasty white makeup away from her? If she's not going to fight the makeover process, it might be worth it. If she's going to fight it every step of the way, then you might want to move on down the road.

MadRabbit -> RE: One of those Hypothetical Scenarios... (6/1/2008 5:48:54 PM)
Thanks for all the great advice. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to write. Well....except for antipod....but I think after reading his other contributions to these forums, we can't really expect anything more [:D]

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