RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination?

RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (Full Version)

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atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:30:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Anybody notice that when the choice was between a Democratic decorated war hero and a non veteran the right wingers made a big deal about how that experience wasn't relevant and then attacked the man's service record while now that it is a Republican decorated war hero and a non veteran the self same right wingers are putting all their stock in military experience? Sorry, i came in late, and missed the reference. Who? and When?

DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:40:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Then you obviously have no experience with SSBI's, nor the security approval process. In other words, you do not understand what he is saying, and are basing your attitude on a lack of knowledge and your own prejudices. He may not but I do. The National Security Act was not crafted by fools. POTUS automatically has the highest clearance available and is defined as having need to know anything he wants. Claiming otherwise is fear mongering of the worst sort.

DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:41:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Anybody notice that when the choice was between a Democratic decorated war hero and a non veteran the right wingers made a big deal about how that experience wasn't relevant and then attacked the man's service record while now that it is a Republican decorated war hero and a non veteran the self same right wingers are putting all their stock in military experience? Sorry, i came in late, and missed the reference. Who? and When? How soon they forget. The election in question was the 2004 POTUS election.

philosophy -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:54:05 AM)
FR ......let me see if i have this correct........having travelled abroad is seen as a potential security risk? Given that the POTUS has a significent influence on US foreign policy wouldn't it be a good thing if they've seen a bit of the world? To suggest otherwise seems a tad, well, xenophobic.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:54:41 AM)
In that case, i politely beg to differ. Mr Bush's experience as a Reservist qualified him as a veteran eligible for benefits. While he may have not faced combat in that regard, by 2004 as POTUS he was responsible for command and control of US forces against an enemy that had attacked within the US. If the primary or secondary goal was to prevent a follow up attack on US soil, i would say he did pretty well, decorations or not, and he did so without getting himself injured in combat (the requirement for the purple heart), although i do recall that he choked on a pretzel one night. Ah well, not everyone's service record is spotless.

kittinSol -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 11:56:39 AM)
Also, we shan't mention the lines of blow and alcohol abuse.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 12:04:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Also, we shan't mention the lines of blow and alcohol abuse. So it would seem.

DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 12:12:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam In that case, i politely beg to differ. Mr Bush's experience as a Reservist qualified him as a veteran eligible for benefits. While he may have not faced combat in that regard, by 2004 as POTUS he was responsible for command and control of US forces against an enemy that had attacked within the US. If the primary or secondary goal was to prevent a follow up attack on US soil, i would say he did pretty well, decorations or not, and he did so without getting himself injured in combat (the requirement for the purple heart), although i do recall that he choked on a pretzel one night. Ah well, not everyone's service record is spotless. Claiming that hiding in a unit meant to protect the privileged from danger and then not even having the honor to actually fulfill the requirements of the contract makes one a veteran is deeply offensive. GWB should by all accounts have faced a general court and received, at best, a Bad Conduct Discharge if not actually getting jail time and a Dishionorable Discharge. Either of which would bar him from all benefits of service and therefore makes him not a veteran.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 12:48:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam In that case, i politely beg to differ. Mr Bush's experience as a Reservist qualified him as a veteran eligible for benefits. While he may have not faced combat in that regard, by 2004 as POTUS he was responsible for command and control of US forces against an enemy that had attacked within the US. If the primary or secondary goal was to prevent a follow up attack on US soil, i would say he did pretty well, decorations or not, and he did so without getting himself injured in combat (the requirement for the purple heart), although i do recall that he choked on a pretzel one night. Ah well, not everyone's service record is spotless. Claiming that hiding in a unit meant to protect the privileged from danger and then not even having the honor to actually fulfill the requirements of the contract makes one a veteran is deeply offensive. GWB should by all accounts have faced a general court and received, at best, a Bad Conduct Discharge if not actually getting jail time and a Dishionorable Discharge. Either of which would bar him from all benefits of service and therefore makes him not a veteran. Had that actually happened (dishonorable discharge and court martial) he probably would not have been elected. Apparently no one with direct knowlege or authority gave this enough credence to pursue it. On the other hand, his time as Commander in Chief of US forces in a time of conflict actually did happen. And, incidentally would make him eligible for veteran's benefits on that basis.

Irishknight -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 1:05:15 PM)
Wow. For whatever reason, I decided to go to Billary's website to see what was being said. She had a well worded letter stating that she would announce her support of Obama on Saturday night. Underneath was a place for people to discuss the letter. It took me less than a minute and way less than the 300+ responses to find a half dozen people who had decided to switch to independant and said that they would never vote for Obama. Even though he seems to have the nomination, the Clinton war machine goes on. Amazing.

DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 2:04:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam Had that actually happened (dishonorable discharge and court martial) he probably would not have been elected. Apparently no one with direct knowlege or authority gave this enough credence to pursue it. On the other hand, his time as Commander in Chief of US forces in a time of conflict actually did happen. And, incidentally would make him eligible for veteran's benefits on that basis. So its all right with you that his immediate superiors ignored his criminal actions? And no, his time as POTUS does not qualify him for VA benefits. VA benefits are exclusively for those in uniform.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 2:44:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam Had that actually happened (dishonorable discharge and court martial) he probably would not have been elected. Apparently no one with direct knowlege or authority gave this enough credence to pursue it. On the other hand, his time as Commander in Chief of US forces in a time of conflict actually did happen. And, incidentally would make him eligible for veteran's benefits on that basis. So its all right with you that his immediate superiors ignored his criminal actions? And no, his time as POTUS does not qualify him for VA benefits. VA benefits are exclusively for those in uniform. Not only am i all right with that, but quite pleased that the Judicial, and the UCMJ can't convict someone without due process. As flaky as it might seem, if no one files charges, there isn't a crime by definition. That is why the police will often ask first if the complainant is willing to file charges. I did not plan it but that is how things work. It is considerably better than going to jail over innuendo and accusation. I stand corrected on the POTUS/veteran thing. It is not applicable in this case, anyway.

philosophy -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 2:49:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam As flaky as it might seem, if no one files charges, there isn't a crime by definition. .......and in cases of witness intimidation? Or bribery? i take it you also believe that a tree falling in a forest really does make no sound if no-one is around to hear it. No tree either maybe. Yup, to my ears your logic is flaky.

DomKen -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 2:56:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam Not only am i all right with that, but quite pleased that the Judicial, and the UCMJ can't convict someone without due process. As flaky as it might seem, if no one files charges, there isn't a crime by definition. That is why the police will often ask first if the complainant is willing to file charges. I did not plan it but that is how things work. It is considerably better than going to jail over innuendo and accusation. That's disgusting. BTW this isn't a case of innuendo or accusation. He clearly commited at least one federal felony while in the ANG.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 3:33:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam As flaky as it might seem, if no one files charges, there isn't a crime by definition. .......and in cases of witness intimidation? Or bribery? i take it you also believe that a tree falling in a forest really does make no sound if no-one is around to hear it. No tree either maybe. Yup, to my ears your logic is flaky. It isn't my logic it is the way that the law is written. There are legal protections against the situations you describe. The system might suck, but it beats the alternatives that i have seen.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 3:39:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam Not only am i all right with that, but quite pleased that the Judicial, and the UCMJ can't convict someone without due process. As flaky as it might seem, if no one files charges, there isn't a crime by definition. That is why the police will often ask first if the complainant is willing to file charges. I did not plan it but that is how things work. It is considerably better than going to jail over innuendo and accusation. That's disgusting. BTW this isn't a case of innuendo or accusation. He clearly commited at least one federal felony while in the ANG. Was he legally charged with, or convicted of anythng?

DomAviator -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 3:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KaineD [ Quite frankly I find your attitude disgusting and lacking any real merit. He has relatives who aren't US nationals? Oh no!! shock Here's a shocker for you... so do about 80% of Americans. Why? 'Cause most Americans when you go into family history aren't of American origin. Only the 'Indians' are truely native. How can it be any surprise that an American would likely have aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents living in other countries? I have relatives in Canada and America. Does that somehow make my American and Canadian cousins bad people? "Oh no! His middle name is Hussein!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!" Find it as disgusting as you want, that doesnt alter the fact that I am right. My mother was / is a South African citizen (she holds dual citizenship) and I have no problem with that nor did the people who issued my clearances... BUT I do not have a half brother who is a hostile african war lord in the same league as Adid or a cousin trying to overthrow the govt of Kenya and herding christians into a church to be burned alive. Barrack Hussein Obama does! (and those are among the lesser issues on his security!) I hold firm to my position that the man could NOT pass a SSBI and as such would not be eligible to sweep floors at Pantex or to empty waste baskets at NASA.

Leatherist -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 3:58:17 PM)
Saying sayonara to "business as usual in america" is probably not a bad thing. As a white man, I had a knee jerk reaction...thinking, "This guy is NOT my friend" Then I thought a bit further, cogitating on the white "Good old boy network"...... Who are actually the ones who have REALLY been fucking us over all of these years-and decided they are less my friends than Barrack would be. It's the first opportunity I have seen in decades for a real shake up-where it is not just two "status quo whiteys" duking it out...... To keep the same old shit going on and on and on........The enemy of my enemy is my friend-I'm gonna vote for him.

kittinSol -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 4:01:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist The enemy of my enemy is my friend-I'm gonna vote for him. Yay! More and more people are saying that: it's fantastic :-) .

Leatherist -> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? (6/5/2008 4:08:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist The enemy of my enemy is my friend-I'm gonna vote for him. Yay! More and more people are saying that: it's fantastic :-) . A lot of us out here have gotten really weary of "the establishment" fucking us over. It's been the same since before vietnam. This only brings it back even stronger-with this latest "vietnam". And the bastard who wants to keep it going. I really do hope that he means what he says, and it's not just more rhetoric that keeps the status quo. But I KNOW that the republican supports "more of the same" And after forty or fifty years of this crap-it's simply intolerable.

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