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"Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/2/2008 3:50:38 PM

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Yeah, I'm one of those dorks who pays extra in the grocery store for "fair trade" bananas. A comment on the "bdsm youtube" thread got me thinking about something that's bothered me for a while. The comment basically said not to patronize the $1 porn sites, because their content was probably stolen.

My (extremely) limited exposure to the fetish industry makes me think a lot of the models are getting ripped off. The one (now former) fetish model I know had a full-time "real" job, and basically made the adult version of allowance money from her modeling.

Not to pick on any one company, but for example: if you shoot with Lupus Pictures, your ass will be "unusable" for a month, but they don't pay enough to cover all your bills for a month.

It seems that over the past couple years, there has been an increase in Russian fetish content at English-language "gates." This type of competition isn't likely to raise the wages of American/British models, that's for sure.

I've also read posts here -- and had cmail from people -- that left me thinking, "Damn, girl, you got ripped and gypped!" (Double meaning intended, because this ticks me off.)

What suggestions do you have about recognizing fetish companies that treat their workers decently?

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/2/2008 7:52:40 PM

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This looks promising:

http://www.kink.com/values.php

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/2/2008 8:02:12 PM

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The obvious solution would be for models to refuse to do work for people who insist on exclusives.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/2/2008 9:18:27 PM

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Wow..i've still never seen porn on the'net (or anywhere else) because all i get are pop ups and viruses...i'm impressed with the Op's sensitivity to the underlying issues.

pinksugarsub

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/2/2008 9:32:08 PM

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I'm all about the free market... people will continue to get paid what the market dictates they should. And if porn sites (or any other business) can find people willing to do X for Y, they're not going to, nor should they, spontaneously offer Y+Z.

As always, just my opinion.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 12:38:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

What suggestions do you have about recognizing fetish companies that treat their workers decently?

There are no suggestions that I feel I can make that would make a difference and for these (amongst many others) reasons.
First: this is like complaining from the outside about someone else's relationships about which we 'do not' approve. I might for example be complaining about someone's abusive realtionship by asking why the hell does she stay with him? I might be complaining about someone outwardly admitting to being a slave avy saying why do they allow themselves to live like that?
In this case i would merely be complaining about why girls allow themselves to be what appears to be 'used' in the porn industry. The question and the answers are essentially the same.
I lived in Russsia and worked there before, during and shortly after the 'melting' of Glasnost. When I first went there yes there were starving 'pensioners' digging snow in winter to afford enough to buy a little vodka. Did I solve the problem by asking them why they were doing that?
There were girls who prostituted themselves for a chance ticket (or worse still an illicit passport) out of there. Did I ask them why they did it?
There were and still are girls traded like chattel out of Rumania and other countries where the so-called benefits of belonging to Europe have not yet touched.
There are those in the world's richest nation who still sell their bodies nightly to afford to put clothes on their kids' backs. If not their bodies some will sell their blood, literally.
The answer as to why most of us as poor girls did anything when we had bodies that the world could trade off is: because we were hungry and cold.
Now unless at the macro level we can get politicians to understand that and enable a fair wage for a fair days work in other industries than consenting to the use of our bodies then we are asking the wrong questions of the wrong people. I am already politically converted to doing what I can by buying the right coffee and fruit.
Whilst I have improved my mind since my 'poor' days that's not necessarily what those in power demand of me..... my body at least is still my own to do what the hell I like with.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 8:33:00 AM

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I've heard from several girls that Kink.com treats their models with the respect and care. The pay is fair for the shoot, especially since they don't seem to leave bad marks.

The new Insex sites... I know it's something else now, but don't know the name- like Hardtied, Infernal restraints also pays pretty well, even if the top is a bit of a Drama Queen.

Usually, pay for those kinds of sites works like this... the model chooses what she is willing to do, and there's a base pay set on that. Sex is more $, BJ's more $, and the more marks they can leave on you, the more $ you recieve.

But if someone really tears your ass up, like some of the hardcore caning sites... MY opinion is that you should get paid more. Bruises and cuts from a bad caning last about 2 weeks on me, and I'm no good as far as photoshoots and things go.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 10:25:16 AM

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Big bucks? If you spend a few hours on a shoot say? Are you talking pin money or a serious job?

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 10:30:22 AM

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Wait, what now?

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 11:01:18 AM

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I think he's asking if this pays a living wage, or if it is a way to pick up a couple of bucks. "Pin money" is geezer slang that means "expendable cash for entertainment."

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 11:07:02 AM

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It pays well, and I could easily make a living off of it, but it's not my thing. The camera creeps me out. It goes in my "Been there, done that" pile, altho I might go do a shoot with Kink if I wanted to go visit Cali.

BDSM producers have a hard time finding girls apparently, so they pay the good ones pretty well. This was how it was explained to me....

Crackheads can't deal with the bondage, and start tweaking halfway though the shoot
Real Pornstars and their managers don't like marks, and they get nervous with all of the bondage stuff.
The lifestyle girls don't look like pornstars. Guys want smoking hot, huge boobied girls getting smacked into oblivion, and I suppose you can do normal porn more often than the hardcore stuff... and make more $ that way.

< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 6/3/2008 11:12:49 AM >

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 11:23:05 AM

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Kink.com is supposedly pretty good. The workers have 401ks, and a lot of the management is supposedly pretty active in breaking down myths about BDSM. Hence the requirement to show the smiling talks with the models, and not just the fetish content. Also why they gave tours of the studio to the local PTA :P

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 5:16:00 PM

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Kink dot Com is a spectacular company to work with and they treat their models fabulously and pay them well (between $500 and $1,200 per four hour shoot). The only reason that's not a living wage is because it's the bay area where the average 2 bedroom apartment has a cost of $2,100. Most landlords won't rent to you if you don't make three times the amount of rent It's possible for some one to pick up several shoots a month- but I don't know that there is any single actress who does 6-12 shoots a month on a regular basis.

But if you are willing to slum it, you can definitely share a place in the Mish with some friends and live on the cheap side, you could live from it. Or get a day job. Fantasy Makers may be hiring... and they also kick all kinds of ass as far as bdsm in the paid realm goes.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 6:34:27 PM

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while I am still new to the industry my company is not.

there will always be assholes who make good use of lawyers...that happens in any field.

as far as a exlusivity agreements... I agree with them to a certain extent. if you are doing one particular fetish then it hurts everyone involved when the model pops up in similar scenes on similar sights... for example tickling, or or rope bondage. but I wouldn't care if you work with a tickling video with one and then do a rope bondage scene with another company then a foot worship with another... but when you do 3 tickling videos... or 3 foot worship... it just hurts everyone(including the model because if she floods the market people will get tired of her and not want to see any more films with her in it)

what happens in fetish porn is that you have a much smaller model pool to search through. either models are into it but don't look right, or they look right but aren't into it, etc etc.

so a reputation is paramount. I'm happy that I am and work with lifestylers. our fetishes drive the movies we make and products we make. the owner of the company has a video company and a toy company. he bought both companies because he liked the product so much he wanted to totally immerse himself in it. now him, his family, and his employees are all in it because they are in the lifestyle. and it shows.

the video company has earned several awards in several categories and it affords all of us to live the lifestyle 24/7
this combined with using models who are well known as well as amateur model but well known in the scene... combined with a good reputation...

oh I forgot one very important thing:

INTEGRITY! if you have it as a person, things will be good.

cheers
Skully

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/3/2008 6:37:19 PM

kc692

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

Wow..i've still never seen porn on the'net (or anywhere else) because all i get are pop ups and viruses...i'm impressed with the Op's sensitivity to the underlying issues.

pinksugarsub

wow....welcome back,,,,,we have missed your hidden sarcasm.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/16/2008 12:16:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

Kink dot Com is a spectacular company to work with and they treat their models fabulously and pay them well (between $500 and $1,200 per four hour shoot). The only reason that's not a living wage is because it's the bay area where the average 2 bedroom apartment has a cost of $2,100. Most landlords won't rent to you if you don't make three times the amount of rent It's possible for some one to pick up several shoots a month- but I don't know that there is any single actress who does 6-12 shoots a month on a regular basis.

But if you are willing to slum it, you can definitely share a place in the Mish with some friends and live on the cheap side, you could live from it. Or get a day job. Fantasy Makers may be hiring... and they also kick all kinds of ass as far as bdsm in the paid realm goes.

My girl has started doing shoots for kink.com a couple times a month. We live near LA (and plan to move there next week) and k.com pays to fly their models into SF, as the majority of their model talent pool is in LA.

Most adult actresses do, in fact, work between 8 - 25 shoots a month depending on their situations. A 'day' shoot usually averages between 500$ and 1200$, though charlotte's made as much as 2100$ in a 5 hour shoot; on average, her rates are close to $200 an hour. Rest assured, the girls wouldn't go into this business if it didn't pay substantially more than 'fair trade' minimum wage jobs.

Stephan

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/16/2008 2:49:22 PM

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Okay, this topic intrigues me. I have always wanted to do adult films. Not as a career, but as an experience. I got so far as being a dancer briefly when I was younger, and made good money doing it. Now, however, it is not really in the realm of possibility, because I do not have a dancers body anymore. Besides that, as plentiful as porn is, it is very difficult to find out how to get into the business anyway.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/16/2008 3:58:03 PM

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To be honest, I don't think it's difficult to get into the adult industry; no more difficult than, say, wanting to work on a cruise ship. The trouble is, like a cruise ship, there's no real 'in-between' market, no ramping up (so to speak.) Girls who show up on their first day on a porn set aren't really treated any differently than a girl who's been doing it for five years. They're told to smile, act sexy, strip, and have sex with someone they've never met before, sometimes for the first time in their lives. To boot, it's similar to the modeling world, where you only have the opportunity to get into video, because you meet very specific physical criteria.

For a woman who wants to do videos, about 90% of the work is in Los Angeles. If you live there, are reasonably attractive, and spend thirty seconds looking on craigslist, you'll have no trouble getting into the industry. If you don't, it becomes substantially more difficult, for far less money ($100-$350 a shoot for the same work.) For that kind of money, it's just easier to work as a dancer.

Stephan

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/16/2008 4:34:40 PM

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Ah, I did the dancer thing, and I am not really concerned about money. For that matter, internet porn would even work. But I wouldn't really know where to look.

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RE: "Fair Trade" Porn? - 6/16/2008 4:44:38 PM

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An hour out of Portland, I'd look here:

http://portland.craigslist.org/adg/

Stephan

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