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Presenting A United Front - 10/28/2005 10:55:40 PM   
ZandD


Posts: 59
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
One of the most common arguments in BDSM discussions is the question of who's practice is the "true" way, the "right" way, the "ethical and moral" way... ad infinitum.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. These discussions can educate, keep people thinking, keep people evolving and most importantly I think, is to keep those who are new from making costly mistakes.

The problem I do have however, is how these discussions tend to cause divisiveness within our community. Your kink may not be my kink, and your way of doing things may not be mine, but truthfully, I am tired of those who pontificate on how "pure" their way is, as well as those who pontificate on what others may be doing is completely, utterly and without question...wrong.

It seems to me that there are those who think that slavery is new. This is obviously not so. Slavery has been around since time immemorial, on every continent, in every ethnicity, in nearly every religion, and in nearly every walk of life, with some execptions. Yet there are those who proclaim that what we practice here in the 21st. century was created by us. People speak as though the current form of BDSM/Domination/submission/slavery is a relatively new concept.

There were slaves before the advent of organized religion who were sacrificed to various and sundry Gods. Egypt's Pharoahs were buried with slaves to serve them in the afterlife. The Roman's had slaves for everything from pure entertainment to fighting their wars. And, of course, there were those slaves who were pampered pets, who got away with behavior that would otherwise not be tolerated from anyone else.

This of course goes on today. Some Dominants prefer to have no emotional attachment to their slave, keep them in cages, care nothing for their health, be it mental, emotional, spiritual or physical. There are slaves who say they need this. Is this a moral issue? For some it is.
There are those Dominants who treat their slaves like valuable property, who take care of them exquisitely. Is this a moral issue? For some it is.
There are more variables in BDSM relationships then I can intelligently discuss here. You will find that most styles are less extreme than those I mentioned above.

It also seems to me that there is much talk on whether one's dominant style is better than anothers, whether one's submission is deeper than anothers, how someone's relationship is more "lifestyle oriented" than others. In essence, there seems to be a lot of competitiveness amongst us kinksters.

I believe that we should stop "eating our young", that we should seek to educate, mentor and lead each other into a cohesive community especially in the light of the recent activity by the US Attorney General's office via the Justice Department. Instead of focusing on what is different amongst us, if we continue to indulge in the same old tired rhetoric on what is wrong with the other guy, we are not focusing on protecting our way of life. We should look to what others do and attempt to see some value in that. Finding common ground rather than standing on the tectonic plates of dissension.

I welcome your comments, please just be kind. I am very sensitive.


D

_____________________________

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Onward and Upward


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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/28/2005 11:27:49 PM   
Eroticmind


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline
Live and let live works for me.

(in reply to ZandD)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/28/2005 11:54:05 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
If someone is looking for a match, chances are that there is a match out there for hir someplace. What matters isn't whether I do things the way Joe does them or not (or even whether I do things the way my mate and co-dominant does things IN OUR OWN HOUSE or not), but whether or not the people that we have around us are in the right situation for -them- when they interact with -us-. Theory is great, but it often doesn't hold up well to the harsh light of the practical, and what works for me may be worthless or a huge burden for someone else.

A agree, ZandD, that if we are going to be a community, that it is the common ground that gives us our strength. Even if there is only one small point of common ground, at least there is that. All of us have things to offer, and valuing those things, and the wide variety of opinions and ideas that come with them, is a good thing. Some things won't fit in -my- home, but that doesn't mean that they won't work for someone else -- and the person that they work for has no reason to be ashamed for voicing what works for hir, just as I have no shame in voicing what works for me.

Many times, here, I speak as the "written word" for our House. My mate isn't much of a "poster", and we have generally common ideas about what works in our home. At the same time, I am not SR. We have differences of opinion, as well, and in our home, we come to an agreement about how such differences will be handled, and both of us have our say --vehemently, at times--. In the same way, in a community, when we disagree, a civilized discourse can provide everyone with a chance to have his or her say, and each of us will be able to keep our own opinions and still function as a community.

Lady Zephyr

(in reply to ZandD)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 12:08:27 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline
Any time you have someone that starts spouting off about the one true way... I tell people to run, not walk away. And that is not only about a BDSM, it’s about anything.
There are as many ways to live a lifestyle as there are people living it.
Having said that the united we stand divided we fall saying holds true, with limits.
I do not like everyone I know who likes reading the Anita Blake novel series. Or that likes to BBQ steak. So why is there this belief that I have to get along and like everyone who happens to share a related kink? Family members do not always get along together. But they do present a united front to outsiders.
And let’s face it, just because your into BDSM doesn’t mean you’re a nice person. We have as many a$$holes in the lifestyle as the rest of the population.
Sometimes the only way to fid common ground is to build a fence and stay on your side of it.
Still a unified front would be nice…who knows maybe one day people will be able to do it LOL
Tony

(in reply to ZandD)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 8:25:10 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
It's just how cultures and sub-cultures work. People want to feel unique, special. They want to make bdsm "more" than vanilla.

Such is life. All we can do is be the best examples that we can.

(in reply to ZandD)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 12:19:26 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZandD


It seems to me that there are those who think that slavery is new. This is obviously not so. Slavery has been around since time immemorial, on every continent, in every ethnicity, in nearly every religion, and in nearly every walk of life, with some execptions. Yet there are those who proclaim that what we practice here in the 21st. century was created by us. People speak as though the current form of BDSM/Domination/submission/slavery is a relatively new concept.

There were slaves before the advent of organized religion who were sacrificed to various and sundry Gods. Egypt's Pharoahs were buried with slaves to serve them in the afterlife. The Roman's had slaves for everything from pure entertainment to fighting their wars. And, of course, there were those slaves who were pampered pets, who got away with behavior that would otherwise not be tolerated from anyone else.

This of course goes on today. Some Dominants prefer to have no emotional attachment to their slave, keep them in cages, care nothing for their health, be it mental, emotional, spiritual or physical. There are slaves who say they need this. Is this a moral issue? For some it is.
There are those Dominants who treat their slaves like valuable property, who take care of them exquisitely. Is this a moral issue? For some it is.
There are more variables in BDSM relationships then I can intelligently discuss here. You will find that most styles are less extreme than those I mentioned above.


D


I see one HUGE difference between the historical ideas and the modern ones: the ability to consent.

A slave in any of those societies you mentioned does not choose the owner, in very very very rare cases they might choose some form of slavery, likely to survive economically or as a religious calling.

Slaves and masters both choose BDSM today -- in fact it is the only thing that keeps them together because in the 21st century, at least in America, you can't even consent to spanked in many states let alone to become a slave. It is entirely about the two people involved.

All those other socieities you mentioned are that: slave owning societies where consent on the part of the enslaved isn't a remote factor or consideration.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ZandD)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 1:47:01 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
It would be nice to organise an activist group of people from BDSM/Gor to oppose Bush openly re: the "porn initiative". i'm game if anyone else is.

pinkpleasures


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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 2:17:39 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline
I have found that this kink is raw, powerfull, and cuts deep. I assume that many others feel the same way, feel that it is a sort of religious experiance. As a result I am not surprised or upset with the fundamentalism, so long as as the conversation stays civilized.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 5:34:10 PM   
WickedKev


Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline
My way of BDSM is the right way.......................................................






For me. *And that is all that matters to me. Other peoples ways are right for them. It would be impossiable to state one way for all it would never work.

_____________________________

Those who can make you believe absurdities
can make you commit atrocities.
—Voltaire

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong
—Voltaire

(in reply to ICGsteve)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 10/29/2005 5:57:14 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
i think if there were not so dam many individual definitions of some thing, it sure would be much easier especially on newbies. Such as if they are asking what is a sub. slave, top. bottom, Master, trust, respect, so on and so on. They ask 50 people they get 50 different answers. What is up with that. For instance the whole Respect post went one for days and days. Or calling someone Master- Master is someone who OWNS. so why were there so many pages on that one> it means what it means.
Yes we all have our own way of doing things and living and no ones way is better than anothers. As long as we are helathy and happy with in our own skin and relationship what should it matter to another else.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to ZandD)
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RE: Presenting A United Front - 11/6/2005 11:13:47 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline
I think one of the biggest problems with having the “terms of BDSM” defined is that, most of us are non-conformists to begin with. If we did not reject societies boundaries how could we act out our chosen lifestyles?

Some parts of society has found it necessary to say that tying up and spanking your partner(s) is illegal. Does this stop us? Hell no! For years the psychiatrists decided that sadism and masochism were deviant behaviour (whew these big words are getting to me). Again, did this stop those of us who knew that what we were doing was listed as a disorder? Not a chance.

With our overall history of rejecting societies rules, is it surprising that we have trouble saying Yes a Master is … and that’s the bottom line?
Tony

(in reply to ZandD)
Profile   Post #: 11
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