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is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 11:52:29 AM   
cluelessslave


Posts: 29
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline 		Is there any demand for custom designed furniture and devices for play, or is that a market where there are more people trying to sell than there are customers? My impression is that the supply is abundant and demand scarce.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 12:11:27 PM   
BootBlackBlast


Posts: 378
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline 		The whole scale of supply and demand is skewed with the economy in the dumps.

More and more people are moving into kink designs and furniture for themselves and their friends as a side business.
To do it seriously and FT the fair/event schedule is demanding and generally is hampered by labor demands. These
businesses bust there asses day in and day out for a very small profit margin.





_____________________________

Leather Rubbin and Dubbin

Bootblack Blast
Mama's Blast

(in reply to cluelessslave)
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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 12:17:13 PM   
Irishm57


Posts: 222
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		There is always demand for custom toys, and there are quite a few who make them. It is more a price thing, not to mention quality. One thing is the odds are slim one could make a living off of making one offs. And most people that make custom or one offs can't sell them for low price.

If you make custom items, then you might try mentioning in the market place forums here.




_____________________________

Some of the toys I have made can be seen at
http://www.slavechris.net

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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 12:24:03 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		There is always a demand for higher quality and custom items , with the furniture side stealth sells and if it can be broken down and stored even better ,yet the quality must also be in that mix . It takes time for the name to get out .I think the longer your collecting items the better stuff is what is sought , i also see when i vend lately price point is somewhat an issue with the economy the way it is .

(in reply to Irishm57)
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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 9:15:24 PM   
SNoB


Posts: 145
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		I make custom stuff, I think its really modestly priced.  When people see my stuff they always say the same thing "oh wow, thats really nice, I want one of those" then when it comes to the whole giving me money thing, they seem to flake out.

(in reply to azropedntied)
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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 9:28:51 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		The trick to making it in this market is being able to do proprietary stuff that other's cannot just buy from any old supplier. Like being able to make your own hardware-out of stuff like stainless steel. Everyone else is using the same old cast nickel crap,and it breaks,and the nickel flakes off.
 
 The other trick is being able to offer a lot of sizes.
 
 But where the big companies make a buck is off of mass production gear that someone has invested time and effort into tooling up for. If you are not either skilled enough to fabricate your own equipment for cutting and sewing.....riveting etc.....you will go broke trying to do everything by hand.
 
 There are simply not enough hours in a day to turn out quality stock at reasonable prices otherwise. Some cheap hand tools and a strap cutter are NOT going to cut it, literally.
 
 You will NOT make it in this market if you act and think like a "hobbyist."

 
 

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/8/2008 9:30:02 PM >

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SNoB)
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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 10:43:52 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Even if the market is there, the skills needed to be a success at selling stuff are seperate from the skills of making nice stuff...don't count on a path being beaten to one's door at first.

(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 10:46:39 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Even if the market is there, the skills needed to be a success at selling stuff are seperate from the skills of making nice stuff...don't count on a path being beaten to one's door at first.


Yes, marketing is a whole other issue. You need attractive MODELS to really sell your gear. Something that will both show how it is worn, and that will fire up the libido of the buyer to desire buying YOUR gear over someone else's.

Static shots of stand alone items are BORING.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 11:26:21 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Every dipshit with a router makes paddles and every hack with a can of spray paint and a stapler makes spanking benches and crosses.  Few people want to pay for craftsmanship and even if they do, shipping most of this stuff is dreadfully expensive.

The trick, as Leatherist said, is having the ability to create quality good with minimal labor and that requires real skill.  Most who do it, like me, do it mostly for the love of it and not for profit.  I do other woodworking for real money.

I know of only one person who makes an actual living making toys, she only does wholesale.


(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/8/2008 11:38:58 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Every dipshit with a router makes paddles and every hack with a can of spray paint and a stapler makes spanking benches and crosses.  Few people want to pay for craftsmanship and even if they do, shipping most of this stuff is dreadfully expensive.

The trick, as Leatherist said, is having the ability to create quality good with minimal labor and that requires real skill.  Most who do it, like me, do it mostly for the love of it and not for profit.  I do other woodworking for real money.

I know of only one person who makes an actual living making toys, she only does wholesale.




A lot of  it is more technical than artistic. For instance, if you are going to make something you know will sell-don't make a dozen, make a hundred. I'm buying an h-frame hydraulic press this friday. I'll still be shelling out for an air over hydraulic cylinder-have the compressor already.

Then I'll need a 3/4 inch thick steel plate for the bed-that will cost. Then a couple of cutting mats-ditto. Then clicker dies,which again will cost to make. And not just one, but several.

That's just to do ONE item in THREE sizes. Probably something in the neighborhood of 800 to 1200 bucks. And I am still working on the basic shop building here, another couple of grand by the time I get it MINIMALLY ready to go-and have some of my machine tooling here to make MORE machinery. After 25 years of struggling along in a "hobby mode" in the past, I realize you HAVE to make the investment.

Otherwise you end up like so many of these other "companies" that have maybe five grand worth of stock. Which is about enough to fill three tables at a show.. In other words, piddly, and never enough to pay your bills-or get anywhere.

Sure, every tom dick and harry wants to get into this when they see a site like Jt's stockroom.

But you do not realize how long it took him to get there, or how many hundreds of thousands of bucks companies like that plow back into tooling, labor, and marketing and research. I guarantee that if you don't THINK like a good sized business does, you won't be one.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 12:25:54 AM   
ExtremeBondage


Posts: 18
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		If copying is flattery, my gear is flattered to death. From the "big" gay leather shop in SF to the shop in LA with the devil # for a name, my designs and creations grace their shelves without so much as a Thank You.The equipment /toy providers are as much  in search of your creative genious as  you yourself are. It takes a moment in time to see the need , the design, and mentally create it so you can put it down on paper, so all the custom gear is 20/20 to the mind that needs it to satisfy their fetish desire. The market is there,it always has been, always will be, it is just timing and location.

I just delivered a 4 poster canopy bondage bed to South Dakota, with the optional hanging fuck sling,LOL. I then plicked up 4 stainless steel surgica tables in Utah and gave a piercing demo in Texarkana.

Each posting has given excellent insite to a praticular aspect of the "custom" fab business. Since I own a welding and machine shop the additional income is from a selection of various designs that are labor intensive for a "hobbyist" but just another set of fixtures for a skilled designer and craftsman.

From the sketch drawn on a napkin in a restaurant to a detailed cad-cam program on a floppy disc, for me it is the challenge and also the minimum fee of at least 3 of anything I build that makes for fun, experience, and profit. the single most important issue for my customers has been descretion! Delivering to Bellair, Hollywood and Santa Cruz quietly at night in large utility vans and working only after 9PM in the basement , hidden dungeon, or above the 55 seat projection theater,LOL. No Joke.

I wish anyone/everyone all the best in their desire to offer to the community their heart felt creations and designs, but rest assured the large high end shops will rip of the designa nd and clain that they can no longer get it supplied from you, ask me I can show you, many examples of this.  The ADASHI


(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 5:08:55 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Oddly enough we've made a really good litle business doing the one ofs and making lots of stuff to order likely 60-75% of our orders are customized slightly. People say you can't do it, and it's certainly going to run most folks out trying to do it. But the fact is return business and word of mouth simply can't be beat, when it comes to being able to make it doing custom work. There is also the matter of price points. gotta make sure you are not out pricing the market, especially on spec (speculative) items.

Your good name is beyond measurable value.



(in reply to ExtremeBondage)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 7:19:07 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtremeBondage

If copying is flattery, my gear is flattered to death. From the "big" gay leather shop in SF to the shop in LA with the devil # for a name, my designs and creations grace their shelves without so much as a Thank You.The equipment /toy providers are as much  in search of your creative genious as  you yourself are. It takes a moment in time to see the need , the design, and mentally create it so you can put it down on paper, so all the custom gear is 20/20 to the mind that needs it to satisfy their fetish desire. The market is there,it always has been, always will be, it is just timing and location.

I just delivered a 4 poster canopy bondage bed to South Dakota, with the optional hanging fuck sling,LOL. I then plicked up 4 stainless steel surgica tables in Utah and gave a piercing demo in Texarkana.

Each posting has given excellent insite to a praticular aspect of the "custom" fab business. Since I own a welding and machine shop the additional income is from a selection of various designs that are labor intensive for a "hobbyist" but just another set of fixtures for a skilled designer and craftsman.

From the sketch drawn on a napkin in a restaurant to a detailed cad-cam program on a floppy disc, for me it is the challenge and also the minimum fee of at least 3 of anything I build that makes for fun, experience, and profit. the single most important issue for my customers has been descretion! Delivering to Bellair, Hollywood and Santa Cruz quietly at night in large utility vans and working only after 9PM in the basement , hidden dungeon, or above the 55 seat projection theater,LOL. No Joke.

I wish anyone/everyone all the best in their desire to offer to the community their heart felt creations and designs, but rest assured the large high end shops will rip of the designa nd and clain that they can no longer get it supplied from you, ask me I can show you, many examples of this.  The ADASHI




This is the reason I won't do wholesale. If a biz is going to fuck me over,I am going to fuck them back-with more efficient production,and a better pricing point. Why should I work my ass off so someone else can make a buck?

Edited to add....AND if they try to rip off my ideas-the proprietary parts are going to ensure that if they have it duplicated somewhere else-those fittings alone are going to cost them so dearly-that it destroys thier profit potential..

You don't get anywhere in this by doing stuff with parts that anyone can acess.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/9/2008 7:57:40 AM >

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to ExtremeBondage)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 8:12:19 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SNoB

I make custom stuff, I think its really modestly priced.  When people see my stuff they always say the same thing "oh wow, thats really nice, I want one of those" then when it comes to the whole giving me money thing, they seem to flake out.


Which is why I shy away from one offs. Why bother when they refuse to pay your hours?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to SNoB)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 8:34:47 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		You have a day job.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 6:01:17 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		And?????  The slave has no outside job. SO I'm smart enough to have known that to grow a business that fills the custom niche you take years to grow a client list, and develop a word of mouth advertisement that brings in the business to make you grow. I've watched several folks grow too fast and collapse under the growth. I'll grow nice and slow thank you.
It is the difference between an artisan and a manufacturer and there are folks who want an artisan's product rather than something mass produced.

Take your segment of the customers and I'll take mine. But the fact remains I have a nice little segment that provides me with a nice little base of customers.
And those customers provide an income that is more than the slave who does not work an outside job would make at many places.

What chaps me is that you find it nessisary to slap at the fact that I have my niche and have made it work for me. Perhaps a tad bit of animosity because you couldn't make the custom part work for you?
You feel the need to claim that my own success at it has to be slapped down a notch?




< Message edited by Archer -- 6/9/2008 6:04:19 PM >

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 7:17:51 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

You have a day job.



Yes, Master Archer does have a day job. And so do I...my day job includes doing the majority of the work for  FantasiesInLeather.com  Master Archer makes the floggers (including hand selecting the leather), leather armor and steel items and we both brainstorm together on many ideas.

I enjoy the custom work and it keeps my skills and talents sharp. There is no chance of becoming sloppy because of rote work on the same items day after day. The stock items keep selling and the custom orders keep increasing. Hmmm.....

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 7:19:02 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		That last post (#16) was me...I did not realize Master Archer was logged in.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 7:22:52 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I made the simple statement that it does not cover all of your bills.

Why would you take issue with a simple observation?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: is there unmet demand for custom stuff? - 6/9/2008 7:29:10 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I made the simple statement that it does not cover all of your bills.

Why would you take issue with a simple observation?



No, you did not make any such statement. You may have assumed that the words you posted 'You have a day job' would mean 'it does not cover all your bills' but they came across as holier-than-thou.

In actuality, you do not know if our business profits can pay all our bills or not.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 20
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