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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/11/2008 3:15:06 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I don't use a person. I use critical thinking ability, my own background in literature and education and 2.5 decades of offline BDSM experience. I find that to be adequate to form an opinion on the subject when it's expressed via a written medium. Who do you use as the standard?


Really?  Then what about...

quote:

  I'll take Easton, Wiseman, Rinella, Lizst, Henkin, Sutton and a whole slew of others before Midori. When I want 'the best' fetish artist, she'll be in the top 20. She makes the top 20 for amazing women who have contributed to BDSM. She'd make the top 20 for a lot of things, but for writing, she doesn't make 'my' list.


Your list is the same group I would use as benchmarks although I haven't and probably won't read Sutton and with the exception of Easton have all written some doggy work.  Henkin's book is my favorite (Consensual Sadomasochim) but is WAY too dry for most and over the head of many.  Nothing by Wiseman or Rinella would win any sort of literary award.  Dossie's stuff is rarely written for beginers and even the ethical slut is a bit pedantic in regards to poly, treating it as "the one true way" as often as not.

And once again, while you may be discussing Midori's piece as literature, I don't think anyone else was.  I stand by my statement that it is one of the best pieces for new submissives I have seen, clearly YMMV

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/11/2008 4:15:01 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Really?  Then what about...


What about it? I didn't judge that piece on anything but its own merit. I always judge a piece on its own merit. That doesn't prevent me from being able to judge the general caliber of writing that a given author might have. The one has nothing to do with the other.

quote:

Your list is the same group I would use as benchmarks although I haven't and probably won't read Sutton and with the exception of Easton have all written some doggy work. 


I understand about Sutton, but she's written some great stuff and contributed to BDSM in many ways. I don't have to agree with her philosophy to appreciate her ability to write well.  

quote:

Henkin's book is my favorite (Consensual Sadomasochim) but is WAY too dry for most and over the head of many.  Nothing by Wiseman or Rinella would win any sort of literary award.  Dossie's stuff is rarely written for beginers and even the ethical slut is a bit pedantic in regards to poly, treating it as "the one true way" as often as not.


As I said, they can't all be gems. I've written plenty of crap over the years, to the point that I later said to myself .. Celeste what in the hell were you thinking!  I've also written some stuff that wasn't quite so crappy.   It's that bell curve thing again. I am even more critical of my own writing than I am the writing of someone else. That's often true for people who have a passion for the pen.

quote:

And once again, while you may be discussing Midori's piece as literature, I don't think anyone else was.  I stand by my statement that it is one of the best pieces for new submissives I have seen, clearly YMMV


Ah, there's the rub. I wasn't speaking for anyone else. I was speaking only for myself. I do believe I was fair and objective.

Oh, btw: You've got mail.


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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/11/2008 4:29:51 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I read her article closely and I read all the posts closely here. It appears many of you know her and she is a good performer, nice person and influential in BDSM circles. I don’t know her and simply looked at the article.

My critique is that it was not written and had poor editing of grammatical errors. Maybe she quickly wrote it for that site and was not working as if it were for a book which someone says she has written.

The content seemed basically what many of us say here all the time. Find a good person if you want a good Dom. That sounds like a good common sense thought that most of us would agree on, but I don’t find it earth shattering. It sounds like something Michael would say.

So it all comes down to this, why post this as if it were a finished, sophisticated example of the work of a well respected authority? Maybe the article doesn’t do her justice as Michael said. Possibly the OP made the mistake of throwing this out thinking it would be kudos for the author when he should have looked for her more polished work.

Bita says it close to the way I also see it.

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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/11/2008 4:43:32 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

That's Midori giving the basics for the online crowd in hopes of giving them a clue.

Midori is big on communication, both verbal and non-verbal. She herself has the timing for stand-up comedy. She's a mischevious sadist; she likes putting subs in a position where she can make them jump. If you get the chance to see one of her demos, do so. I'm in SF, and have run into her many times over the years.



advice for submissives from chelle: do not volunteer if Midori needs demo bottoms for a humilliation class...


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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/11/2008 11:20:15 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have seen that woman play...she doesn't fuck around.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 2:48:42 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		She starts off explaining that this is advice for newcomers by saying it’s for people that got excited reading (not doing) about submission.  Midori just seemed to reiterate good common sense.  Watching you guys arguing about the validity of common sense cracks me up.  Thanks for the chuckles. 

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 4:49:30 AM   
MissEnchanted


Posts: 510
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Communication and common sense are so... vanilla.  If you want to be a true lifestyler, and not just kinky-in-the-sheets, you have to throw away all that baggage... and let a real Dom like me mentor you, little girl.

You were chuckling when you wrote that, right?

Tongue in cheek?

< Message edited by MissEnchanted -- 6/12/2008 4:50:28 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 7:30:02 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		This is my considered position about the kind of stuff being discussed here.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1926077


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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 7:34:55 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissEnchanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Communication and common sense are so... vanilla.  If you want to be a true lifestyler, and not just kinky-in-the-sheets, you have to throw away all that baggage... and let a real Dom like me mentor you, little girl.

You were chuckling when you wrote that, right?

Tongue in cheek?


While RedMagic is somewhat new around here, he has impressed BSB and I with his wisdom.  Yes, his tongue was firmly in his cheek when he wrote that.

(in reply to MissEnchanted)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 6:11:31 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Communication and common sense are so... vanilla. If you want to be a true lifestyler, and not just kinky-in-the-sheets, you have to throw away all that baggage... and let a real Dom like me mentor you, little girl.


I feel a sudden urge for Roman Showers....


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 9:32:59 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, but I really do have to be critical here. Really great as an article? Reading through the thread it makes me wonder. Are some of you really oh so easily pleased, or just as easily fooled, or both?

I read through the entire article looking for the answer to the one simple question - 'why?' Why has this article been written? To teach people common sense? Merely to state that if you find good people outside D/s they will be good people in D/s? I mean, this is hardly rocket science or applied psychology or is it? The underlying tone which I picked up was I'm better than you because I know this and you don't. The article itself is little more than a collection of statements and principles. This was the One Twue Way, the tone arrogant, of preaching to the 'unenlightened masses'. The writer is out of touch with her audience - people new to D/s. The assumption that they wouldn't know such a basic and fundamental principle, or at least have worked it out from their own experience, is offensive. It is offensive to assume that they do not know how to communicate with others. It is offensive to assume that they are dishonest, or indeed lack that basic common sense.

This article raises some interesting questions. Who is real as a human being and who isn't? What is a true relationship and what is a false relationship? Just what is the writer trying to get at?

There is no substance to this article, and I use the term article loosely here, as I am more inclined to agree with the author and read this as a stream of consciousness, loose random thoughts, ramblings, and not much more. The subject matter is D/s, and relationships formed within the community, human interaction, activities shared between people. There are no examples given, no explanations, not even drawing on one's own experiences, and therefore no real way of knowing or understanding how the writer has formed any sort of basis for her thoughts. This is a serious flaw, for writing is a form of communication, a way of expressing thoughts and what lies behind those thoughts, and this article communicates nothing more than a stated thesis and a collection of random thoughts and assertions. This is a fine example of style over substance.

Therefore there are none of the logical devices used in expository writing, none of the points have been developed, there is no attempt at definition, no attempt at forming any comparisons, no explanations as to cause and effect, none of the devices employed by almost everyone here in their postings on the threads on these boards. It's okay you thinking what you think and having your opinions and views, but unless you are able to articulate them, expand and explain you're just making statements and not really communicating very much. This being the English language the onus for communication is very much on the writer. Not least if you really want to get your point or message across.

Below you have the statement 'Midori is a globetrotting sexpert, who parties and teaches cool classes on fun sex and wild kink all over the world.' which is separate from the article. It says a lot that I had to find out who she is from other posters on this thread and that it wasn't clear or evident from what she wrote in this article. I'm sorry but I find no evidence of her authority or expert knowledge in such an article. I just read something that the majority of posters here could come up with in say 5 minutes of thinking.

I'm sorry but this article gave me nothing new, and even if I was as thick and unenlightened as the author assumed I was I don't feel that this would have changed. Please forgive me, but I see it as a couple of hundred words written to express what any rational, thinking person could have expressed in less than fifty.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 9:59:10 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It is offensive to assume that they are dishonest, or indeed lack that basic common sense.


Considering we get 20 people a day who post on here every day asking  "is it normal for a master to cut off your nipples and sew them to your forehead" I don't think it was too elemental.  Frankly, I think she gives people TOO much credit, not too little.

What puzzles me is why such vitriol for someone based on the most tangential piece of her work?

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/12/2008 10:27:24 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

What puzzles me is why such vitriol for someone based on the most tangential piece of her work?


I haven't seen any vitriol for Midori here.  I have seen honest critiques of this piece of writing, however, which is much different.  In fact, a lot of people, myself included, have noted her credibility in other areas of BDSM - a far cry from "abusive and venomous language" (vitriol defined) toward Midori.





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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/13/2008 1:32:44 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

What puzzles me is why such vitriol for someone based on the most tangential piece of her work?


I haven't seen any vitriol for Midori here.  I have seen honest critiques of this piece of writing, however, which is much different.  In fact, a lot of people, myself included, have noted her credibility in other areas of BDSM - a far cry from "abusive and venomous language" (vitriol defined) toward Midori.


This isn't posted just to OG but her comment seemed appropriate to me for my post.  (Plus I just like following her around).

What I find interesting is that someone posted these words here.  Now, it is great that Midori posted that on another site and if someone was posting it as a link after a question posed, great.  But really, if Midori herself wanted her words here, would she not have signed up an account and profile and be here others - including already established and enjoyable authors such as Mr Warren or MasterFireMaam(my apology for using as an example if this was inappropriate)?
 
My question has to be, is this about Midoris' words - or just a promo for another site?
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/13/2008 1:34:36 AM >

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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/13/2008 6:03:34 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		I will offer advice also: do not volunteer if Midori needs demo bottoms for a Mindfuck class (ie:bugs/chainsaw to name a few)





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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/13/2008 7:21:02 AM   
spiceydomme


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		I fully agree! While what she wrote WAS common sense, she wrote it specifically for women who are looking for a Dominant for the first time it seems, and thus those women may be more likely to be overcome by excitement, or the need for acceptance, or the rush of being able to finally live out fantasies; so much so that they might not be thinking straight...or worse, they might be thinking "this seems wrong, but He's the Dominant so what ever He says, goes, regardless of how I feel."  I just see this as a way to reach out to those women, the women who are specifically looking for articles such as this (regardless of how "simple, common sense" it seems), in hopes that those women will take this to heart and learn from it.

quote]ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

This is my considered position about the kind of stuff being discussed here.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1926077

[/quote]

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/13/2008 7:27:19 AM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Or for those who are going thru a "sub-frenzy" and who are ignoring common sense as another poster put it, and red flag issues.

Some people here need to stop making mountains out of molehills.

CD

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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/13/2008 7:57:29 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		http://freecal.brownbearsw.com/edges Saturday, June 14 2008
5:00pm - 7:00pm
Predicament Bondage with Midori
Edges Dungeon
Here's a class for fun-loving, wicked tops and for bottoms who enjoy a challenge. A predicament bondage creates a situation where the bottom is 'between a rock and a hard place.' Which ever direction the bottom moves has consequences, either physical or psychological. It can challenge your endurance, your pain threshold, or your pride. The class will include several demos, and you may have an opportunity to volunteer for one. If you're a service bottom or an escape artist, you may get a new challenge!

"Author of "The Seductive Art of Japanese Bondage" and "Wild Side Sex", and her latest erotic science fiction - "Master Han's Daughter" educator and columnist on adventurous sexuality, Midori has travels the world presenting to universities, groups and media. Midori is known for her humanistic, humorous and warm classes that help people to spice up people's sex lives and encourage self discovery and personal growth. Her weekend intensives called "Women's Sensual Dominance Weekend Intensive" and "Rope Bondage Dojo (TM)" have been sell-out hits for years. Born in Japan and raised in a feminist intellectual Tokyo household, she served in the US Army while earning her psychology degree from University of California, Berkeley.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/23/2008 12:06:07 PM   
mandalic


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		Hey guys there is a follow up to this article.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 79
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