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ORIGINAL: BumpStick

Well I am very glad about what our Brigade commander told and tells us.... "you have less than 3 seconds out there to make a decision... they have 3 months to analize it and tell they didn like... Your out there in it. I will stand behind you... Its better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6."

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Such thinking would apply theoretically ,I hope to those actually armed wouldn't it and not those merely "who lit a smoke".By all means U.S.serviceman should do what ever it takes to come home in one peice,one can hope that they can do that while maintaining some semblance of sanity and humanity...IMO

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ORIGINAL: BumpStick

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Such thinking would apply theoretically ,I hope to those actually armed wouldn't it and not those merely "who lit a smoke".By all means U.S.serviceman should do what ever it takes to come home in one peice,one can hope that they can do that while maintaining some semblance of sanity and humanity...IMO

Our Command has told us that if we did what we thought was right to protect ourselves and other US soldiers and civilians (yeah we hae some working with us) they will stand behind us... ever had a kid walk up to you or one of your friends and hand you a granade? Thank god the kid didnt know he had to pull the pin...

A lit smoke or noise will not send us shooting. There has to be a hostile threat or a hostile intent. Now see how that is a judgment call. Its best not to hesitate cause that hesitation gets people soldiers killed.... But we have to live with what we do and what we have see over here. If I could forget 1/2 the things i have seen over here... things no one whould ever have to see or experence. I am lucky but a few of my friends havent been and it sucks to me only a couple hundred meters away and helpless not able to do anything for them.

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ORIGINAL: BumpStick

I'm luck I dont have much longer, only 3 more weeks. But its been a long 14months thus far.

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ORIGINAL: BumpStick

Those who discuss the killing of innocents or dissregard for human life have naver taken a life themselves. If they have then they would see things differently. Once you have taken a life and had lifes of those around you taken your out look changes. Its apparent some do not think that it does.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: BumpStick

Those who discuss the killing of innocents or dissregard for human life have naver taken a life themselves. If they have then they would see things differently. Once you have taken a life and had lifes of those around you taken your out look changes. Its apparent some do not think that it does.

...i don't think that anyone is seriously suggesting that taking a human life changes your personal universe. i know it would mine. Thing is, it's not just one persons universe at stake here. Some of us have were saddened at one posters apparent callous disregard for innocent life. He justified being hopped up on drugs so much that he couldn't tell the difference between a non-target and a target by suggesting that because his plane was so expensive it was better to kill a few innocents than risk banging it up. Apparently he saw this as more efficient. It was that specific opinion that have been objected to.

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ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

We prescribe pills for everything now a days.  It's beyond ridiculous, and the long term implications aren't known.  I think it's going to come back and bite us in the ass. 

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: BumpStick

Well I am very glad about what our Brigade commander told and tells us.... "you have less than 3 seconds out there to make a decision... they have 3 months to analize it and tell they didn like... Your out there in it. I will stand behind you... Its better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6."

Such thinking would apply theoretically ,I hope to those actually armed wouldn't it and not those merely "who lit a smoke".By all means U.S.serviceman should do what ever it takes to come home in one peice,one can hope that they can do that while maintaining some semblance of sanity and humanity...IMO

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

Better I be sharp and jumpy and bomb a civilian who lit a smoke than that I am overcautious and wind up losing the aircraft

Look, this attitude is easy for you to say, however the troops on the ground have to live with what we see and do.

Tell you what, if I could pass on HALF the nightmares I have from the places I have been, I think your attitude would change.

Try living with the face of a kid scavanging for food who made the mistake of making the wrong sound at the wrong time and ended up with 5 rounds in his chest. 

Sorry, the drugs may keep you alert, but they will not erase memories.

And of course there is that wonderful invistigation after such and incident, and god forbid the press get ahold of it....

While I appreciate the guys upstairs, I do not, cannot believe that you are describing a commonly held attitude, considering the rules of engagement clearly state, "Do not drop ordinance if unsure of target or possible unacceptable civilian losses."

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: DomAviator

Better I be sharp and jumpy and bomb a civilian who lit a smoke than that I am overcautious and wind up losing the aircraft

Look, this attitude is easy for you to say, however the troops on the ground have to live with what we see and do.

Tell you what, if I could pass on HALF the nightmares I have from the places I have been, I think your attitude would change.

Try living with the face of a kid scavanging for food who made the mistake of making the wrong sound at the wrong time and ended up with 5 rounds in his chest. 

Sorry, the drugs may keep you alert, but they will not erase memories.

And of course there is that wonderful invistigation after such and incident, and god forbid the press get ahold of it....

While I appreciate the guys upstairs, I do not, cannot believe that you are describing a commonly held attitude, considering the rules of engagement clearly state, "Do not drop ordinance if unsure of target or possible unacceptable civilian losses."

Well jlf then you aint never been in a squadron ready room. We watch the gun cam films, we laugh, we high five each other and FYI I dont know where you got those rules of engagement - mine were "fire if you observe hostile activity or hostile personell. Engage targets of opportunity according to the following priorities..." (If I see a flash, thats hostile! If I see people congregated after curfew thats hostile, if somebody so much as paints me with a radar thats hostile and I dont care if the radar station was put on the roof of an elementary school - as saddam did!) I mean like I said earlier - I dont care about the muslim custom of firing guns skyward to celebrate your wedding. If you want to live to fuck the bride THROW RICE cause if I see muzzle flashes, your wedding is going to end badly.

As for the nightmares - very sorry. You might want to try those antidepressants they are giving out at the VA. I dont have any nightmares at all! None, zip, nada . None of the pilots I know have nightnares about combat and we killed a hell of a lot more people than any infantrymen. (Now alimony checks or airline lay offs are the kind of things you have nightmares about) I look at the pictures of the two Highways of Death and think God Damn that was some night!  We laugh about it, we retell the stories at Tailhook , and we razz the Air Force on who got the most that night. 

In the scenario of the kid you gave, the little fucker shouldnt have been sneaking around stealing should he. Poor judgement and unacceptable behavior in a combat zone. After you zipped his ass he isnt hungry any more is he? SO dont kick your ass about it, shit happens, move on and get over it...  Honestly there is nothing you could do in war worth having nightmares about except hesitating and getting one of your buddies killed.

Somebody PLEASE pinch me, hit me, throw ice water on me...something....anything to wake me up from this nightmare!!!

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

DA, you stepped way over the line here.

Seriously NOT cool.