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RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:05:05 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

I't seems I'm the problem.

Ummmm....

WRONG!!!!!!!!

Communication--actually the lack thereof--is the problem. Both of you say one thing and hear something else.

The two of you need to sit down, one-on-one, and figure out how to translate each other.

_____________________________

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 21

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:06:20 AM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
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brattybrandi,

I've read the responses here, and I'd like to take a different tact.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the 'do whatever you want' freedom that this Dom gives you?

Under what circumstances, and pertaining to what activities, does he tell you to 'do what you want'?

At a munch? In a social setting? Club? At breakfast when he leaves for work regarding your activities for the day?

A sub yearning for direction is a common and understandable desire among most submissives; I don't agree with posters jumping online and flaming you for that aspect alone.

I'm drafting a response to your post, but I'd like a little more input from you before putting anything on the board.

Can you elaborate a little? How long have you been together? Under what circumstances have you 'gotten into trouble' by 'doing whatever you want'?

Sincerely,

TexasMaam

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 22

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:13:09 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

No "I" don't want to be micromanaged. Don't want to be told when to shit, piss, eat & breath. It would just be nice to have a little bit of D/s structure. His expectations ... are that of no expectations.

And yes you're right "topping from the bottom" I do it sometimes and I'm not even aware of it for the most part. Thank you for opening my eyes to it. I't seems I'm the problem.

Brandi,

You might want to start considering that there are more ways than one to operate in a D/s relationship. Sure, it's comfy to have rules and all that, but conversely, it's a whole lot more challenging to operate the way he's doing. You're probably right that he has no expectations. But if you open your mind to other ways of being, you'll see that the lack of so-called expectations is what will allow you both to grow to the greatest extent possible. It might be that you are able to rise to one level and that's it. Or, you might go further than you have ever imagined.

You also might want to consider the fact that he's waiting for you to drop all the pre-conceived notions you may have been led to believe D/s relationships have to be in order to be considered a D/s relationship. There are all sorts of ways of living a D/s relationship. None of them are wrong. Many of them are wrong for specific individuals. However, I'd be willing to bet that you'll never know what you're capable of unless and until you open your mind and take those steps toward understanding.

juliet

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 23

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:13:09 AM

SaraZeal

Posts: 144
Joined: 10/2/2007
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To the OP:

I understand how too much freedom can be a bad thing. I was thinking about college last year, and I checked the programs and there was a bazillion of them...too many options for me, most I wouldn't do sure, but I'd like them not to be in the booklet.

I know that even if I wasn't looking for micro-management, the lack of any clear structure would sort of make me feel like my Dom doesn't care what I do. What he likes, doesn't like, and why is that. I'm eager to please, but I don't pick subtle cues easily (thanks to Asperger Syndrome and a life rejected from social interactions). I need somethig clearer than a wink, or a moan, to know if someone likes something. Communication is paramount to me, the vocal one first and foremost.

I want to invest myself deeply with my Dom, but for that I need to know what's expected of me, and I might be curious as to the why of those (I'm genuinely curious and don't accept things 'just because that's the way it is', I like to know why). I also want to know if what I like or would do is in any way pleasant to him. Doing something for my own pleasure alone, where he gets no benefit, feels pretty bad to me, it makes me feel guilty.

< Message edited by SaraZeal -- 6/15/2008 10:14:54 AM >

(in reply to slavejale)

Post #: 24

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:22:59 AM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

I never met a bonafide Male Dom who didn't have any expectations other than the sub 'live' for Him every day in every way.

Something here doesn't sound right to Me. Which is why I asked the OP to elaborate a bit.

She's met a man who wants to be her Dom. Or so he says. Then tells her to 'do whatever she wants'? That just doesn't sound like a true lifestyler to Me. That sounds like a Dom wanna be to Me, or like someone keeping her in a back pocket for a booty call with a spanking.

And, it sounds to Me as though brandi is asking for more structure and direction.

We really can't address her issue if we don't understand what kind of direction He's 'not providing'. The Male Dom's I know would give her more direction than she ever bargained for at this age/stage in her life.

Before I venture any advice, I want to know more about their current status quo.

TM

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 25

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:24:26 AM

califsue

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/2/2008
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it seems to me like you want different things...and that is okay...

i think you need to decide if he is really giving you what you want/need and if not
move on

i know i have freedom with my Master but he also knows that he is my first thought when deciding what i will or won't do though he hasn't demanded it.

and that is what he wants from me.

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 26

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:27:23 AM

SaraZeal

Posts: 144
Joined: 10/2/2007
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To some other posters in the thread who basically tell her it's her fault:

I also wouldn't do well in a relationship that was that open-ended. I also *need* structure. It may be more challenging to not have any, but well, I'm not looking for a relationship to become work, especially the kind of work I'd rather stay asleep than go work...

I want a relationship to be something you work at, but that you know HOW to work at it. If roads had no signs, no stops, no street lights, no "Speed limit 55 mph", how horrible would traffic be? That's how I feel about relationships too.

It doesn't need to be micro-managed and structured to the point of being told when to brush my teeth. I just need to know what's expected of me. Like when I work for some company, and I'm not some freelance person - I have clear directives "Do X task, using Y tools, in Z time." And I'll have been formed, or shown, how to do task X the way they want me to (all companies have demands on certain things, like formatting it a certain way, using a certain font maybe).

If I worked for a company, and I knew barely about task X, cause I never did it before, and they never told me what they wanted as end result - I'll be lucky to satisfy them, unless they're basically expecting anything as a result. I've had that happen before, was told to do a task X, but not in precise words, it was vague enough, that, although I finished the task at hand, I didn't do it "the right way", or complicated my life using an out-of-the-way way, because I didn't know the availability of some tools.

If I was told to discharge a palette, I'd have to know where to put the contents. And if they didn't tell me I had access to a forklift for said task, I probably wouldn't think of demanding one - I would think I would have been told if it was implied I needed it. This happens especially with ambiguity. Say with stock on a palette that's so heavy no normal human would move it, for sure you'll *require* a forklift, but it's when it's 30-40 lbs boxes, how do you know if you could (or should) use one.

Using examples from past work...which I hated doing for various reasons, including being too weak to do it.

(in reply to SaraZeal)

Post #: 27

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:34:15 AM

brattybrandi

Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline

Thank you.....

      For you're background information. Him & I started speaking to one another the end of December begining of January this year, had grown very close as friends first. The begining March he wanted to meet face to face, I wasn't ready yet. He lives quite away's away from me. And the trust wasn't there nor were the deep feeling's for me to take that step. By the end of April things had changed. I booked a flight went to visit him. We had a great connection. Chemistry & everything is right.

     Because we live so far apart. He tells me he doesn't want to be selfish, he has allowed me to do as I please while we are apart.

    There was an instance where i sent a email with a picture to another man. Long before those deep feelings were there. He saw the email. Became very upset, I explained to him the time frame gap, and that I no longer did that.
The thing that prompted me to start this thread is something that happened yesterday.

    I play games on a online gaming site, so does he we play there often together. There was a man whom I was playing. We were playing & chatting for quite some time. FYI .. my profile on this gaming site reflects that I'm involved with someone him specificaly. I make that known to men. After about an hour or so of chatting & playing this guy asked to see a photo of me. I immediately told him no & that i needed to get permission first.

    I then told asked for permission, wanting to avoid any trouble in the near future. He said "yes if you want to"..... I sent a picture, a very clean normal picture like what's on my profile here. Later that evening i was accused of wanting this new man to Dom me. And lying about my intentions with him.

    This is where I get upset. If he didn't want me to send the picture. He should have said No. If he was feeling insecure about me playing with this man he could have told me that he didn't like that also. But he didn't say anything. I'm not a mind reader & yes sometimes I'm niave.

     I will not play with this man again. Because it resulted in a 2 plus hour argument last night and me trying to defend myself.

(in reply to TexasMaam)

Post #: 28

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:42:50 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

I immediately told him no.......

That would have been a good place to stop.

K.

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 29

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:47:23 AM

brattybrandi

Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
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In retrospect I know you're right. Thought I was doing the right thing by asking. A limitation I placed on myself because it makes me feel better. I do not want to displease him

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 30

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:50:42 AM

kallisto

Posts: 1185
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

After about an hour or so of chatting & playing this guy asked to see a photo of me. I immediately told him no & that i needed to get permission first.

I then told asked for permission,

It would have gone no farther with me than the NO. I would not have asked for permission. I would have no desires to be sending pictures of me to any other men (no matter what the picture). Just my 2 cents.

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 31

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:51:32 AM

SaraZeal

Posts: 144
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

I immediately told him no.......

That would have been a good place to stop.

K.

I agree with hindsight (knowing his later reaction to it). But I'm also rather naive, and I wouldn't know if someone was trying to be sarcastic, if it didn't *sound* sarcastic (forget that in text, there is no tone to text).

I probably would see nothing wrong with sending a picture to a friend, a friend I have no intention of it becoming more than friendship - unless I was told it was bad (would provoke a jealousy argument for instance). I've sent tons of pictures to friends online, friends I might never see in person because of distance (and finances not helping). I figure it's just a way of knowing who you're talking to. All said pictures are decent, either a faceshot, or a full body shot, clothed.

I'm very loyal to the one I'm with. I just don't consider sending picture to friends or acquaintances as a deal-breaker, unless I'm explicitly told not to.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 32

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 10:55:01 AM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

AHA! Well that certainly clarifies things.

It's almost impossible to (I hate to use the word 'switch' on here because it gets threads derailed) ...almost impossible to flip=flop between a free, unstructured single lifestyle, (like yours must be so far away from this PROSPECTIVE Dom), and structured protocol that is expected to be maintained (for lack of better descriptors) in a real time D/s relationship.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 'trying a relationship on for size' online, so don't let anyone on this board tell you it's some kind of abomination when it's not.

You are 'trying this Dom on for size' right now, and have understandably gotten deeply emotionally involved by your response to him so far.

It seems to me as though you're hoping for some specific D/s directives which are not forthcoming from this fellow.

You need to give the relationship a little more time to develop, and cut yourself a little slack for communicating online with someone else. But you do have a decision to make.

If you're seriously interested in this man, you need to cease and desist online communication with other men online, at the VERY least while you're online with the Prospective Dom, while you're on the phone with him or otherwise in communication with him.

Self Discipline is developing Good Habits without the Need for Punishment from Others.

When it comes to social interaction, in a part time long distance repationship that *would be VERY difficult to do, so cut yourself some slack for having done so in the absence of any real life commitment or understanding of your relationship so far.

Common sense would dictate that you mind your online manners when he's around, and when he's not around, if you're serious about moving in with this guy in the near future.

If you are NOT serious about him as a Prospective Dom, or just don't know enough about him to know whether you're ready to commit to a real time trial or not, here's my best possible advice:

Enjoy your youth, always keep your options open, meet who you want to meet and engage who you want to engage in online communication to whatever level you want to interact.

When you get to the point of making a serious commitment to online D/s training with this guy, or when you get to the point of considering him as a potential real time Dom for a live in relationship, you'll be able to ask for the ground rules and structure that you crave.

Slowly, chickadee, slowly! Examine your options, don't beat yourself up, go slowly, give the relationship some time.

If he's serious about YOU, and if he's a serious real time Dom, he'll be giving you some directives soon enough.

Yes, you're going to get posts that you should be a good little subbie and not communicate with anyone, blah blah blah, but he doesn't own you. Not yet.

Remember, too, that flirting carries with it the risk of 'turning off' just the right guy at just the wrong time.

Only YOU can make the decision when to dedicate your time and attention to him alone. Only YOU can determine when you're ready to observe protocol.

Email me on the other side if you want to continue privately.

Best regards,

Texas Maam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 6/15/2008 10:58:00 AM >

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 33

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:14:39 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Hello Sara,

The problem arises with her asking...

Taking your example, if people in some group that he knows she belongs to routinely exchange mug shots, and he's never expressed a contrary preference, fine. What's to ask? She asked (I'll dare to speculate) because her intuition told her that in this case it would not be quite entirely fine. Or certainly not, at least, without permission. So figure this one out for me, and see if you like where it gets you:

If she didn't want permission, why did she ask?

Kirata

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/15/2008 11:20:29 AM >

(in reply to SaraZeal)

Post #: 34

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:22:37 AM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

Wait a minute.

She asked permission, he gave it.

Why would he give permission unless he wanted her to contact this guy? Or unless he wanted to test her?

If he wanted her to contact this other guy there's a good chance it was the Dom pretexting to be 'mister new game playing guy'.

If he was testing her, he needs to discuss that with her, and give her a new set of expectations, if they've gotten that far along - not go off on a tear and accuse her of nefarious intentions.

So she failed the test. Big Deal. They aren't committed. If their relationship is moving towards serious training, if he's any kind of r/l Dom, I'm sure he'll address the issue and give her the direction she's looking for.

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 6/15/2008 11:24:04 AM >

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 35

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:26:13 AM

brattybrandi

Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline

Thank you all for your insight, you have given me alot to think on. I appreciate all of your responces.

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 36

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:40:18 AM

brattybrandi

Posts: 31
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline

Let me clarify something for you. I asked for his permission, not because I wanted the permission per say. I wanted to avoid any future termoil. I know the actions that I have taken in the past had a very negative result. It's not that I expected him to say yes go ahead.. Or even to say No don't you dare. I wanted him to be informed. Because by all rights what he is expecting of me is nothing. I can do what I want. & I technicaly didn't need to ask him.. (according to him).. I asked him because at the time i felt it was the right thing to do. And when he gave the permission I didn't think it was going to turn into the issue that it did.

ETA... does that make any sense at all ?

< Message edited by brattybrandi -- 6/15/2008 11:42:40 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 37

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:44:44 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

Wait a minute... She asked permission, he gave it.

Wait a minute... He gave it conditionally. He said, "Yes, if you want to...."

I agree with the rest of your analysis, though I do not share your confidence in him giving her the kind of direction she wants.

K.

(in reply to TexasMaam)

Post #: 38

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:53:59 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

I can do what I want. & I technicaly didn't need to ask him.. (according to him)..

How then is he even your dominant?

Hell, how then is he even your boyfriend?

_____________________________

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 39

RE: I need Structure ! - 6/15/2008 11:58:47 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brattybrandi

I asked for his permission, not because I wanted the permission per say... I wanted him to be informed.

You say you didn't ask for his permission because you wanted to send the guy your pic. That's really quite amusing. Are you selling any? You obviously wanted to send the other guy your pic because when your Dom said, "yes if you want to," you promptly did.

Why, is anybody's guess.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/15/2008 12:04:09 PM >

(in reply to brattybrandi)

Post #: 40

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