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RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 12:49:36 PM

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You make a good point CreativeDominant. We all judge. In fact I wouldn't want to be around people who didn't judge things. If no one had an idea of what they believed to be right or wrong then, well....our world would be even more chaotic and miserable than it already is.

I think where the judging becomes an issue is when people not only start to judge the person instead of the activity but also claim they AREN'T being judgemental. "You procure for your Dom thus HE is evil and I would NEVER do anything so wrong but go right ahead and make yourselves miserable whores because I'm NOT judging you."

I respect people who say, "I would never do this activity, I judge it as wrong." Does that mean they have to judge the person doing the activity as wrong as well? I think that's where a line is crossed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

I think its perfectly reasonable for me to have taken this
"This is the complaint the procurer herself often posts. She's hunting for another sub-and they keep blowing her off, ignoring her trolling. "
as directed towards me "the procurer herself" sounds pretty specific dont you think?

am sure however I am in error in someway, and am happy to be corrected if this is the case

softness, just a quick note that I read it as meaning that "the procurer herself" is the girl who sends the email to procure and then complains, not as a direct reference to you. I can't speak for the author's intentions but I always appreciate when someone who I know isn't being snarky toward me points out something I might have missed. I hate when I get upset over something that wasn't intended. Course if he WAS being snarky to you he better watch out for all of little old me comin after him...cuz I'm vicous....I swear...really...I might be able to hurt a fly..if it was really bugging me...and Master made me....really....

charlotte

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"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 12:55:30 PM

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From: Leeds, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotteS

...cuz I'm vicous....I swear...really...I might be able to hurt a fly..if it was really bugging me...and Master made me....really....

*snorts ... chokes on coffee .. regains composure*
*nodsnods seriously* .. yes charlotte .. you would indeed kick that fly's ass *nodsnods - collects Oscar*

and I stand corrected on my post above, this topic is beginning to leave me a little frazzled and I admit my usual objectiveness may be compromised

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proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to charlotteS)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 1:01:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotteS

...cuz I'm vicous....I swear...really...I might be able to hurt a fly..if it was really bugging me...and Master made me....really....

*snorts ... chokes on coffee .. regains composure*
*nodsnods seriously* .. yes charlotte .. you would indeed kick that fly's ass *nodsnods - collects Oscar*

and I stand corrected on my post above, this topic is beginning to leave me a little frazzled and I admit my usual objectiveness may be compromised

But you LOVE being frazzled you silly emotional masochist you.

charlotte

_____________________________

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to softness)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 1:11:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotteS

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotteS

...cuz I'm vicous....I swear...really...I might be able to hurt a fly..if it was really bugging me...and Master made me....really....

*snorts ... chokes on coffee .. regains composure*
*nodsnods seriously* .. yes charlotte .. you would indeed kick that fly's ass *nodsnods - collects Oscar*

and I stand corrected on my post above, this topic is beginning to leave me a little frazzled and I admit my usual objectiveness may be compromised

But you LOVE being frazzled you silly emotional masochist you.

charlotte

This morning on the phone Sir was like ... "put through the ringer .. in public ... in a deeply personal and intimate way .. this is like foreplay for you huh?"
I declined to answer

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to charlotteS)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 1:24:30 PM

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It isn't whether or not procuring is inherintly good or bad, hell even murder isn't always bad, putting someone out of their misery, killing rapists, etc isn't always bad. It is the intent behind it, are you doing it for a reason that is positive or negative for the people involved.

If I tell "sub x" to do it hoping she will get me someone hotter so I can dump her and move on, that isn't exactly a positive reason. If I do it because "sub x" is a glorious little fucktoy and it gets her all hot and bothered to do it then it is a positive reason. Motivation and intent make all the difference.

(in reply to softness)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 1:25:19 PM

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edited: someone already posted "my" thought while I was writing... Drat.

< Message edited by Strongmindbody -- 6/19/2008 1:27:46 PM >

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(in reply to softness)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 2:26:15 PM

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From: Leeds, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If I tell "sub x" to do it hoping she will get me someone hotter so I can dump her and move on, that isn't exactly a positive reason. If I do it because "sub x" is a glorious little fucktoy and it gets her all hot and bothered to do it then it is a positive reason. Motivation and intent make all the difference.

thank you .... fresh eyes solve unsettled issues

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Procuring - 6/19/2008 9:42:19 PM

TemptingNviceSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

softness, I believe you are a very intelligent, self-aware, deliberate and thoughtful (meaning "full of thinking") woman. This is why this will probably work for the two of you. I just worry for others that read it, that may be pushed to do it and who are not as well equipped.
I wish you both well!

I felt this posting needed to be reiterated...as to what I think upon this issue, as I am a monogomist to the core, then definitely poly is not my thang..but then again..the poly individuals, I am sure, do not understand my mindset either...also, I am not slave, nor meat,and not much into the whole service orientation mindset (wonders now how many Dominants I have scared off with these statements..~wink~)I am of a mindset of serving the relationship of D/s..and such service comes from love, and or respect and or caring...definitely NOT from enjoyment of cooking,cleaning or what have you..also, to me, dealing in a relationship of 2 is more than enough for me to handle, let alone any one else within a dynamic that I am a part of.So as to the question put forth...submissives procuring for their Dominant?...If the relationship is stable, if the D or s are stable,if they are both in agreement full heartedly,if it is their THANG...and there has been no emotional manipulation,subterfuge,or changing of agreed upon parameters, then what could possibly be at issue?..Life is too short to limit what you may desire..and as to what SteeleofUtah said about sex is just sex, or something along those lines (faulty memory..:0)...way to many years have passed for me to simply enjoy sex for its sake alone...I found such to be less than satisfying,fed neither the soul,mind and most of the time even the body...but then again..such is usually the difference between male/female (note, usually, not always)....best to you softness/and Dark Victory.......Tempting

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You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to subtee)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 5:37:46 AM

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Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It isn't whether or not procuring is inherintly good or bad, hell even murder isn't always bad, putting someone out of their misery, killing rapists, etc isn't always bad. It is the intent behind it, are you doing it for a reason that is positive or negative for the people involved.

If I tell "sub x" to do it hoping she will get me someone hotter so I can dump her and move on, that isn't exactly a positive reason. If I do it because "sub x" is a glorious little fucktoy and it gets her all hot and bothered to do it then it is a positive reason. Motivation and intent make all the difference.

Hmmm... a sensible, reasonable answer in only 4 lines on page 12. What took ya so long? lol

This got to the heart of the matter, and I thank you for posting it. It clarified the issue for me, brought it down to its base.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 7:16:54 AM

CreativeDominant

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It isn't whether or not procuring is inherintly good or bad, hell even murder isn't always bad, putting someone out of their misery, killing rapists, etc isn't always bad. It is the intent behind it, are you doing it for a reason that is positive or negative for the people involved.

If I tell "sub x" to do it hoping she will get me someone hotter so I can dump her and move on, that isn't exactly a positive reason. If I do it because "sub x" is a glorious little fucktoy and it gets her all hot and bothered to do it then it is a positive reason. Motivation and intent make all the difference.

You and I may agree that oftentimes, it is the intent and motivation behind something that changes what the act is...hence, the legal delineations between Murder 1, Murder 2, Voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter---with the same delineation occurring for many other crimes...but many people do not. For them, stealing is stealing is stealing and cheating is cheating is cheating, etc..

To go a bit further on what you stated, when it is clear between the partners what the parameters are and both are O.K. within those parameters AND each is O.K. within themselves, then this situation is no different from any other D/s and/or BDSM and/or relationship scenario. It has to be clear and each and every thing that can occur within a relationship has to be discussed as people might view things differently. I think lying is wrong. Most people do. But whereas some can see that motivation and intent can make the difference between a small lie and a big lie (white lie, black lie), some discard that...and they have a right to...and see only that a lie is a lie is a lie. (As an aside, even for those who see shades of gray in some areas, some of them compartmentalize everything and in some of those compartments are those areas in which they see things as black and white too.) And like my therapist told me several years ago, it is the view of the person who is "wronged" within a relationship that counts.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 6/20/2008 7:47:22 AM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 8:08:54 AM

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

How does procurement sit with you?

It doesn't. But then, I do not enjoy objectification or humiliation. While I can enjoy being used as "meat", if that were to be my sole (or even primary) purpose, I would be a very unhappy sub, indeed.

And available.

I enjoy... even thrive... on being unique and indispensable. To be Firm's perfect mate, capable of providing for all his wants and desires is what drives me and fuels my efforts. It's a bit fantasy, I realize... but one that he indulges me in. Thankfully.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

... One of the services I give is procuring. I wasn't happy about the idea at first, when I was initially told I was expected to do this I became huffy, indignant and hurt.

This is one of only two things that you said in your op that "bothered" me. (The second comment I'm still thinking about.)

Was this expectation sprung on you only after you'd become emotionally invested in the relationship?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

I'm still trying to figure out how you procure another woman for a guy to fuck, unless she's a hooker. Especially when you're halfway around the world from him. I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious!

I'm afraid I have the same curiosity as BR and some of the others who have asked a similar question. I suppose with me, I would be afraid of the responsibility. Humans are generally very cautious when it comes to exposing themselves to another through sex. In the sex act, we are at our most vulnerable... physically, but also possibly emotionally.

To find sexual partners for DV who is thousands of miles away from you, you'd have to be locating women who are also thousands of miles away from you. I'm assuming you never really get to meet them in person. How do you ensure that they are who they say they are, behave in person how they claim to behave online, look as they present themselves to look, and are healthy and sane?

I once posted here how if Firm ever asked me to find a third, I'd make sure I found a woman who was as physically unpleasing to him as possible, as well as have a stalking nature. Then, after assuring she'd firmly latched onto him, I'd leave. While I was teasing (mostly

), don't you worry about hooking DV up with some dangerous wacko?

(in reply to softness)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 8:53:04 AM

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<-has volunteered. Have spent time talking with both.. never face to face. sometimes, when things click, they click. *shrug*

*smooches Treasure* how ya doin, hot stuff?

eta: oh yeah, I am SO not a stalker.. I love the one off sex thing ;)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 11:38:38 AM

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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

*smooches Treasure* how ya doin, hot stuff?

eta: oh yeah, I am SO not a stalker.. I love the one off sex thing ;)

Awwww....

*smooches back* I'm doing great, GT. You?

And I think DV would be lucky if you stalked him.

(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 5:04:19 PM

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From: Leeds, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

<-has volunteered. Have spent time talking with both.. never face to face. sometimes, when things click, they click. *shrug*

*smooches Treasure* how ya doin, hot stuff?

eta: oh yeah, I am SO not a stalker.. I love the one off sex thing ;)

wails .,.,only once? ... but ... but ... but ... thats soooo unfair!

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 5:06:41 PM

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Midnght
Personally I find it appauling that any Top would use their submissive to procur others.
They should do it themselves.

My girl ran the house and liked girls. I was running 4 corporations and she had more time to hunt than I did... and she liked hunting as much as she liked catching. I should not have been doing it myself. She wanted the “reinforcements” as badly as I did. We are not talking slaves to help with housework either… it was a very wealthy house with hired laborers for the yard, maids, laundry etc. It was her job to keep me and my house in order... girls, social events and all.

I'm going to start calling you Heff!

I didn’t mean to mislead, was speaking in past tense. I wish I still had those things!

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(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 5:11:57 PM

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tsk.. Well, I'm sure it was a blast while it lasted!! ;)

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(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 5:35:33 PM

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From: Savannah, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

*smooches Treasure* how ya doin, hot stuff?

eta: oh yeah, I am SO not a stalker.. I love the one off sex thing ;)

Awwww.... *smooches back* I'm doing great, GT. You?

And I think DV would be lucky if you stalked him.

I'm ok :) Another day in Paradise! *snort*
Softness..there's the distance thing...(mind you, I'm not saying only once during a visit.. LOL... )

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 6:00:27 PM

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Just come move in with me GT. Fingers crossed DV will be visiting me with softness when over here so we can just have one big play ermmmmmmm. ..........torture party

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(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 6:18:03 PM

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it's that pesky visa thing, MissT.... *sighs*

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: Procuring - 6/20/2008 6:31:02 PM

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Marry me?
Or failing that........
i'll hide you in my cellar lol

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to GreedyTop)

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