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Subspace - 11/4/2005 9:35:49 PM   
submissivesilk


Posts: 154
Joined: 1/30/2005
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i'm sure this has been asked before, but i'd rather get some current input and be able to ask additional questions, instead of reading threads.

i'm not sure if i understand subspace. What do you (each of you) think it is?

i'm not sure if i even believe it's possible for me to attain or if i want to get there.

i'd just like to see what other sub/slaves have to say.

Thanks, Silk
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RE: Subspace - 11/4/2005 10:05:51 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Joined: 6/22/2004
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It's been asked dozens of times. Do a search. (In fact, there's one thread about subspace where I listed all the threads about subspace.) You may not feel like reading old threads, but not everyone feels like answering the same question over and over. If you read all the threads and STILL have a question afterwards, I'm sure everyone will be glad to answer.

(in reply to submissivesilk)
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RE: Subspace - 11/4/2005 11:21:30 PM   
submissivesilk


Posts: 154
Joined: 1/30/2005
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i'd actually rather hear from a sub/slave anyway. i'm sure there are some who haven't answered before.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 2:55:52 AM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
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I felt the same way , that id never reach sub space.... Id been in a Master /slave marriage for over 13 years and not once did i allow myself to go there. I then met a man that gave me constant butterflies , and touched me and whispered in my ear when he sessioned me....ooh la la . He was a hard core sadist. My very first time being sessioned he sent me to space , so deep i was out cold. It is a wonderful feeling, the pleasing feeling i get , from pleasing my owner , the relaxation knowing im his alone to do as he wishes, and the pleasure from the pain, with the backbone of trusting another completely with my life, and knowing he values that. My answer would be it can be obtained , for me it was knowing i pleasured him , and trust. I do know i scared the day lights out of him the first time, because he has never been with a sub that went so deep .
I hope this helps, and by the way i was in a year long or so Master/slave relationship with this man , i just don't hop on every spanking bench that comes my way lol

(in reply to submissivesilk)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 4:27:23 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

i'm not sure if i understand subspace. What do you (each of you) think it is?


a "trance" state.

it has been this slave's experience that it is an altered state of conciousness, ~comparable to a trance state, like one achieved through meditation~ that can occur, with the only effort required being complete and utter letting GO during a scene with Master.

so, if we are defining subspace as that trance state achieved ONLY through some sort of BDSM means, this slave first experienced it at age 37. however, the fact that this slave had achieved that same trance state, sans the sexual euphoria, frequently through other means since the age of 17 might have made it easier to do at 37. all that changed was the focal point(cognitive object) and the sexual energy experienced.

excerpt from an interesting read:

quote:

"So what is my theoretical paradigm for trance? Basically I claim that the necessary and sufficient condition for a trance to occur is whenever there is a sustained cognitive object loop of sufficient length of time to cause dissociation. A cognitive object is an abstract way to denote a thought, any thought, whether it is a word, and idea, a feeling, a vision. When a set of cognitive objects repeat often enough, you will go into a trance."A Gentle Introduction to Trance Theory
Dennis R. Wier, Director, The Trance Institute, Bruetten, Switzerland http://www.trance.edu/intro.htm

(in reply to submissivesilk)
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RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 5:04:44 AM   
wipmebeetme100


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quote:

i'm not sure if i understand subspace. What do you (each of you) think it is?

i'm not sure if i even believe it's possible for me to attain or if i want to get there.


To me subspace is that place i sometimes find myself at...when a moment ago i thought that there was a possibility i could not take any more...and now, BRING IT ON!



cathy

_____________________________

Happiness is like peeing your pants: Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth
~Unknown

(in reply to submissivesilk)
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RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 5:15:36 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivesilk

i'm sure this has been asked before, but i'd rather get some current input and be able to ask additional questions, instead of reading threads.

i'm not sure if i understand subspace. What do you (each of you) think it is?

i'm not sure if i even believe it's possible for me to attain or if i want to get there.

i'd just like to see what other sub/slaves have to say.

Thanks, Silk



Well, since I have a different opinion from most (in my experience), I'll give you my views.

What do I think subspace is? Well, to be blunt, I think it's a chemical reaction of endorphins to the brain caused by the pleasure that comes from a physical scene, possibly involving pain or sex or a combination of either with added bonuses.

I've heard that there is more to it than this. I have, a couple of times but not many, drifted into what I call "headspace" (distinctly not "subspace") where I'm getting off on the intense pleasurable physical pain I'm receiving but feel I experience it better when I'm absolutely silent and sort of...lost in the moment, if that makes sense.

Is it possible for you to attain or do you even wish to be there...Well, honestly, who cares if you need to attain it? People seem to make such a big deal out of the elusive "subspace" that sometimes it just makes me want to scream and pull out my hair. So you never experience subspace? So what? Maybe you get to experience orgasms. Those can be pretty fun, and count yourself lucky-not everyone gets to experience those either! If you're not interested in subspace, don't struggle for it. If you're worried that you can't attain it, stop worrying.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to submissivesilk)
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RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 6:34:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Reposted from one of those other threads in which dozens of subs/slaves have put their input in previously:

Subspace is an altered state of consciousness.

Other than that there's nothing universal you can say about it. It's akin to hypnosis, people have attained similar altered states throughout history of humanity in every culture, through pain, through drugs, through endurance, through spiritual connection.

I don't get off on endorphins, I don't have an endorphin high. I get off on adrenaline and feeling connected.

It's like an orgasm- it's different for everyone, there are different types, and everyone gets there in different ways.

And sometimes it's not good, there are bad headspaces you can go into. But they won't damage you.

(in reply to submissivesilk)
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RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 6:40:46 AM   
AlderTheKitty


Posts: 174
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Oshawa
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sub space for me is when everything seams right the pain stops being pain and i start to drift which is when a good top knows how to snape you out of it so you teeter on the edge and that is what is about being taunted by it being so close and when my top leans oer me and wispers in my ear and asks me to beg to be alllowed to slip into it it makes me feel so loyal

_____________________________

i am a strong person and will not be pushed around which makes my submission a special gift that few are going to receave

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 8:37:20 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
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Greetings..~smiles~


Yet another one of those things that can have a definition for yet be purely subjective..lol you have to just life.

There is a state of being that I sometimes achieve during sessions where I will go from really conscious of the sound and pain visible with flinches/anticipation, then somewhere in there loose that focus of that and it shifts to the actual feeling of what that pain is, and where it is..ie the warmth/stinging/burning, and it's radiating or deepness. This is where I spend most of my time and it is very nice ..but sometimes I do surpass that and loose it's focus, and I'm physically transfixed on a spot where you could stand infront of me and I'd see right through you with this drooling somewhat even dopey look on my face. Whats happening to the flesh or around me just goes away, and I'm off in la la land I guess.

Head space..subspace..outspace..who knows

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to AlderTheKitty)
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RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 10:12:52 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
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I think this article describes it very well. At least it did for me.


What exactly is "subspace" and ... what is it not?

By: Hans Meijer - http://www.powerotics.com

Note: The author is the chairman of the POWERotics Foundation, an
organisation dedicated to providing reliable information to and about the
BDSM community. This article is a team effort by the POWERotics team and
includes input from medical professionals and psychologists. In fact, this
is a "summary" of several much more in depth articles.

"Subspace".

This word we use to describe the psychological (mental) and phsysical state
the submissive can - but does not (always) have to - reach as a result of
BDSM interaction. On the Internet especially you will a lot of stories and
articles about "subspace". Most of these unfortunately got it deadwrong.
This leads to a lot of confusion. For example "subspace" and orgasm are
often mixed up.

Science is still a long way away from fully understanding "subspace". That's
no big surprise, since very little - actually hardly any - coherent
scientific research has been done in this area. However, we do know more
than enough to be able to do away with many of the misconceptions and
misunderstandings.

Man or woman?
------------

There is a big difference between the physiological (especially
bio-chemical) reactions in the male and female body. As a result, male
"subspace" is incomparable to female "subspace". Most importantly, female
"subspace" usually lasts a lot longer. The explanation for this is in the
fact that the male ejaculation (which is not necessarily always the same as
an orgasm) puts an end to quite a lot of biochemical processes and - as a
result - to subspace. On top of this, female sexuality in general is very
different from male sexuality. And there is
of course a major difference in the way, men and women deal with emotions.

Orgasm or "subspace"
--------------------

Quite a few submissive women confuse orgasm, or even strong (sexual)
arousal, with "subspace" - simply because they have no personal experience
with orgasms. Global scientific research tells us that - unfortunately -
probably as much as one out of every three adult women has never experienced
an orgasm. There is no reason to assume these figures any different within
the BDSM community. In other words, probably one out of each three
submissive women does not know what an orgasm is, hence cannot distinguish
the differences between orgasm and subspace and is likely to mistake one for
the other.

Besides, there are different forms of orgasm (different orgasms, as some
prefer to say).

One thing we do know: having an orgasm while in "subspace" is biologically
next to impossible!

This is because the hormonal chain of events - leading to subspace - is
quite different from the one - leading to an orgasm. In the early stages of
the route to both "subspace" and orgasm these chains of events are quite
similar. But at some point along the way the body has to make a choice:
either go for orgasm, or go for subspace. One excludes the other. In other
words, whenever a submissive tells you he or she "was cumminglike there is
no tomorrow" that is exactly what has been happening. But, no more than
that. There is nothing wrong with an orgasm. On the contrary in fact. But it
just isn't "subspace".

The tall stories
----------------

The "Stages of Subspace" - as described on many Internet sites - do not
exist!

What has happened is that somebody, somewhere took the description of the
stages of the female orgasm, changed and twisted the wording a bit and
thought it looked good. Fact of the matter is, subspace does not work like
that at all.

Actually, while "subspace' is a state of being that develops gradually
during its early stages, it is not a neatly ordered, gradual, "phased"
development at all. The best comparison is to look at it as water, building
up behind a dam. At some point the dam will break under the waterpressure
and the next thing you know "all hell breaks loose". That is exactly, what
happens during the development of subspace.

Besides, the "road to subspace" is a different one all the time and probably
every time. Impulses and responses can change per day or even per hour. This
is because your body is receptive to all sorts of impulses that have an
influence on hormone production. This can be stress, anxiety, uncertainty,
fever or the effects of alcohol, tobacco, nutrition, medication or drugs for
example or, in the female body, the influences the monthly cycle, possible
pregnancy and menopause.

So what exactly is "subspace"?
-----------------------------

"Subspace" is a form of trance. Trance in its essence is a state of being,
different from your "normal" state of being. During trance your mind
excludes most of its input and concentrates on just one or only very few
impulses, completely disregarding all others. There are many ways in which a
trance can be induced. Prolongued dancing for example, or hunger, prolonged
physical activity. Hypothermia, recreational drugs, high fever, lack of
nutrition, dehydration AND BDSM-activity all can induce trance. Just like
repeated physical activity (such as jumping from one leg on another for a
long time - a modern technique used by psychologists).

Trance is the result of hormonal activity. Hormones are substances in your
body, responsible for communication between the brain and the cortex and the
rest of the body ("blink your eye" is the result of a mini hormone cocktail.
So is "pull muscle" or ..... "fall in love"). Everything your body does (or
does not) is the result of these usually complex hormone cocktails. Hormones
are being read by "receptors" and the availabilty and functionality of these
receptors is genetically determined. That is why a hormonal reaction is not
identical in different people.

For "subspace" a group of hormones, called "peptides" is important. Peptides
are amino acids. Many look like morphine and have attributes, that can be
compared to morphine. And yes - although natural - they ARE (to some extent)
addictive! For subspace ENDORPHINS - a group of such peptides - are an
important ingredient.

Where does it start?
-------------------

Both "subspace" and sexual arroussal start with ADRENALINE.

Actually, adrenaline is an incorrect name, since it assumes it is one
hormone. Actually, it is a combination of two hormones: adrenaline (in
biochemical terms epineprin) and noradrenaline (norepinephrin). These twins
are being produced simultanuously, but they serve different
purposes. Adrenaline - among many other things - makes certain that extra
nutrients (sugars especially) are transported to the muscles,
while noradrenaline (again among many other things) is responsible for
inducing vascular contraction, so the vains help the heart to pump blood
through the body faster.

You could say the adrenaline twins are your body's first response team. As
soon as anything happens that is different from what was - at that moment in
time - the normal situation, the body starts to produce adrenaline. This
happens in a split second and it brings the body to a "higher state of
alert". Ready to fight, run, jump out of the way of a passing truck or ...
to enter into an argument for example. Your senses are wide open,
information transport through the body increases and speeds up, muscles
contract, the heartrate heightens and muscles are being filled with whatever
"fast food" is available. And these are only a few of the processes, induced
by the adrenaline twins. Besides adrenaline is one of your natural
painkillers.

When your body decides it is time to produce adrenaline it does so, based on
the principle: shoot first - ask questions later. In other words, adrenaline
production is well under way before the brain has had a chance to analyse
the situation. The reason for this is that the situation may call for a
reflex action. And that is what you want. You don't want your brain to go
like; "Wow, that's a truck coming at me, what shall we do about that?" No,
hopefully you probably got yourself out of the way before you even realized
the thing was a truck. That is a reflex and the result of adrenaline.

The "kick"
----------

Back to "subspace".

Adrenaline production started well before you conciously figured out you
were getting aroused. As soon as the brain notices the higher adrenaline
concentrations have nothing to do with anything that requires an immediate
reaction it has two options. It can either step down from the "red alert"
phase and tell your body to go into "business as usual" mode. Or - if the
impulse that triggered the increased adrenaline production persists without
presenting any danger or other alarming situation - it may decide to
continue production. Why? Because the brain like adrenaline.

The adrenaline twins can give your a "kick" (or a "high" as some like to
call it). It's the same "kick" you get from passing an exam, a bungy jump or
a dive in the pool on a steamy hot day for example. In short, the "YES!"
feeling. Your body can produce increased adrenaline levels for about half an
hour. Oh, by the way, women can enjoy adrenaline somewhat longer than men,
usually.

FOR MANY PEOPLE INTO BDSM ....... THIS IS IT!

Nothing wrong with that. An adrenaline high as such can be great fun, but
...... it's got nothing to do with "subspace". It is an adrenaline kick.
Fun, exciting, addictive is some way. In other words, from anything like a
15 to 30 minutes "quicky" you don't enter "subspace", but you probably will
get an adrenaline high. Oh, what most dominants describe as their "domspace"
is very likely to be an adrenaline high as well.

This provides us with one clear, recognisable and physical insight in the
different ways, people experience BDSM and it explains part of the different
forms of BDSM. Those who are after the adrenaline high do just that and
that's fine. But it is physically and mentally very different from what we
are going to talk about below. And the two cannot (and should not) be
compared. It's like baseball and football. Both sports revolve around a ball
and are played by teams in a stadium. But that is where the comparison ends.
Which doesn't mean that baseball players are better or lesser sports people
than footballplayers. They're just different and their abilities - if at all
- should be compared to others in their own league.

Endorphins
----------

The road to "subspace" is like a ladder. You go from one step to the next.

Adrenaline is the first step. The next one brings us to a different - much
larger - group of hormones: ENDORPHINS. One important note: there are other
endorphin highs (such as the "runners' high"). They are, although similar,
very different from what we call "subspace".

Endorphins are peptides too. They are a morphine-like group of substances
(so far science has identified 39 different ones), that are relatively new
to scientists. They were identified in the mid 1970s and are called
endorphins since 1975. In very unscientific words they are known as "mood
hormones", since they are responsible for our moods, whichever one.
Regardless if you cry, laugh, get angry, happy, or sad or just bored ....
all that is triggered by endorphins. They are produced in countless
different "cocktails" and, just like adrenaline, work as a
natural painkiller as well. They are also responsible for car- and
airsickness and vomiting in general.

To understand the "road to subspace" the following is important. Your body
HAS to produce adrenaline before it starts to produce endorphins and the
endorphins - that contribute to "subspace" a- re only first produced after
some 20 to 30 minutes. In fact they are the "next shift". Within the
endorphins group there are some hormones we call "enkephalins". These do to
cortex what endorphins do to the brain to create "subspace" and both need to
be present.

All hormones have a chemically incomplete "forerunner", but for reasons of
clarity and simplicity we will skip these.

To fully explain "subspace" science still lacks a lot of data. Too many to
pinpoint and explain the process precisely. But we do know quite a bit. One
important thing to understand "subspace" is the recent discovery of
different ways, in which the brain releases endorphins. Besides the normal
"through the proper channels" way (via glands and the nervous system) there
also appear to be small, apparently uncontrolled fountain like releases on
the outside of the brain. These have been photographed and filmed. These
"endorphin fountains" occur on specific occasions. Most parents will have
seen their young kid simply staring at a ball or some object without moving
or responding, but just looking at it - apparently fascinated by its color
or shape. That is when endorphin fountains occur. Why they do, science does
not know yet. But we do know these fountains are connected to the kind of
emotional and physical responses, we call "subspace" in terms of BDSM. These
endorphin fountains also seem to induce the "deer in the headlight"
behavior. That is not fear, but fascination. A probably more familiar
similar reaction are the LSD-trips from the hippie days.

Are we going to take a left turn, or a right?
--------------------------------------------

Here we reach a crucial junction. Once the endorphins production gets well
underway, there is a choice to make: are we "going into subspace" or will it
be an orgasm today? Remember, one excludes the other. No one knows exactly
how or why this choice is being made but - remember, hormone receptors are
genetically determined - at least some of that has to be in the genetic code
somewhere.

So, why is there such a crucial choice? Well, in order to follow the
hormonal route to an orgasm the body now will have to start to produce a
group of hormones called GnRH. These will eventually trigger the production
of yet another hormone (genadotropine), which induces the production and
release of steroids (the "sex" hormones). As soon as the GnRH production
starts the endorphins production slows down and finally stops. In other
words: no "fountains" - no "subspace".

Up to this point your body has produced quite a lot of these "mood hormones"
and that is responsible for the feelings of bonding, attachment, affection,
security and love. This makes sense, since these emotions - in females
especially - are a necessity for the orgasm. This is what some people
describe as "floating". No, that is not one of "stages of subspace".
Actually that is pretty general, normal human behavior and quite necessary.

So, here is again a crucial difference in BDSM-experience - physically and
mentally recognisable: if there now will be an orgasm, that is what you go
for. And, orgasms are NICE! And very good to have. But ...... THEY ARE NOT
"SUBSPACE". The bonding and affection emotions however, can be a first step
towards it.

Hallucination, trance and different levels of awareness
-------------------------------------------------------

Now is where we can see the fundamental differences between "subspace" and
other BDSM-experiences (driven by other motives). If and when the body
decides not to go for the orgasm, but instead to go for "subspace" we are
getting to the "deer in the headlights". And also the point where the dam
breaks.

If endorphins production continues - remember, we still do not know exactly
why - trance and light forms of hallucination occur. THAT is "subspace"!

Someone "in subspace" is easy to recognise from the outside. They are no
longer able to drive a car, or even a bike. They seem silent, absentminded,
slow responding, uninterested. In other words "not really here". That again
is not the same as the warm, glowy, dreamy feeling after an orgasm. Somebody
"in subspace" is "not on this planet", so to speak.

"Subspace" is dangerous in some ways. People "in subspace" have very
different levels of perception and awareness. They will see a traffic light
as interesting colors that changes all the time. They do NOT see it as a
warning signal. To them, a house is a fascinating stack of bricks with
intriguing patterns - NOT something people actually live in. If you would
slit the throat of someone "in subspace" they'd probably tell you they'd
consider that an interesting and fascinating experience. They do NOT
recognise the life threatening situation. Someone "in subspace" is
INTOXICATED! Intoxicated as in: under influence of drugs.

If you have ever been given morphine for medical reason you will know that
morphine creates a colorful, happy, peaceful world without fear or pain or
discomfort. Endorphins in high concentrations create EXACTLY THAT EFFECT.

SOMEONE IN "SUBSPACE" CAN BE A DANGER TO HIM OR HERSELF!

"Subspace" can last for anything from several hours to several days. For the
duration of "subspace" reflexes slow down severely (this is the
result of the slightly intoxicating effects of enkephalins on the cortex)
and much of normal, everyday logic no longer works. Someone in
subspace cannot make responsible, consensual decisions.

EVERYTHING THAT TRUE FOR PEOPLE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL, RECREATIONAL
DRUGS OR MEDICATION IS TRUE FOR PEOPLE "IN SUBSPACE".

As said, subspace is easy to spot from the outside. Pupils widen, responses
slow down, appear illogical or simply do not occur. Food and
sustenance is no longer important, people hear you, but do not understand
you, they cannot find the right words and some submissives
even stop breathing temporarily. Someone "in subspace" - as far as physical
behavior and signals are concerned - is very similar to
someone, under the influence of recreational drugs. The trance itself is
important to them, feeds them and leads them. Nothing else matters and
that - for example - includes sexual arroussal. Colours, sounds, scents are
individual, seemingly incoherent experiences. if you have never been
here, you haven't been "in subpace" (yet). And that's fine. it is just that
"subspace" is very different from everything else.

Conclusions:
-----------

There are no "stages of subspace". There are however very different ways in
which people experience and response to BDSM-activity. Much of that is
biochemically determined.

Orgasm and "subspace" are two different, biochemically largely incompatible
experiences.

Different biochemical reactions create different experiences (not levels of
experience!). One is not better than the other. They are just different. It
is important to understand these differences, because the wants and needs
are different.

"Subspace" is a form of trance and should be dealt with accordingly.
"Subspace" is not without risk.



_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 12:24:09 PM   
girl4you2


Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
thank you for posting this very fascinating read. quite thorough, logical, and understandable.

the website also has a lot of information on shibari, as well as other things i'm sure that i didn't read.

_____________________________

maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 2:20:13 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

I think this article describes it very well. At least it did for me.


What exactly is "subspace" and ... what is it not?

Did you get permission to post this?

(in reply to Littlepita)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 3:29:03 PM   
girl4you2


Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

I think this article describes it very well. At least it did for me.

What exactly is "subspace" and ... what is it not?

Did you get permission to post this?

i found this on their site, which she had provided the link to:

© Articles from this background information section may be republished in part or in full, provided their source and ownership is duly attributed to the POWERotics Foundation. Republishing on Internet sites is allowed, provided a link to http://www.powerotics.com is being provided with the article.

The BDSM Media Information Center is an endeavor by the POWERotics Foundation, an organisation devoted to providing quality information about BDSM.

_____________________________

maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 4:13:47 PM   
mystictryst


Posts: 125
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline
I do not subspace, I never have. And I've been told several times that I'm "not with the right partner".. I don't think that is the case, for me, it has more to do with loss of control. I dissassociated as a child/youth/teen and now that I have myself "under control" I have no interest in placing myself somewhere that I am unsure if I can return from. And I can't believe (I guess partly from not having been in subspace) that it could be with out damage to the psyche, dissassociation can be very damaging to the mind, as can hypnosis; couldn't a negative "subspace" have a negative affect too?

Further more, I don't think that "spacing" is necessarily the be and end all. I enjoy the feelings I have when playing, and i don't really understand why anyone would want to vacate from them.

Finally, I didn't read the previous links (I guess I'm looking for instant gratification), but can anyone tell me how play can remain safe and concensual if one partner can't effectively communitcate because they are in a trance-like-state? (using safe words)

(in reply to submissivesilk)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 4:28:07 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mystictryst

I do not subspace, I never have. And I've been told several times that I'm "not with the right partner".. I don't think that is the case, for me, it has more to do with loss of control. I dissassociated as a child/youth/teen and now that I have myself "under control" I have no interest in placing myself somewhere that I am unsure if I can return from. And I can't believe (I guess partly from not having been in subspace) that it could be with out damage to the psyche, dissassociation can be very damaging to the mind, as can hypnosis; couldn't a negative "subspace" have a negative affect too?

Further more, I don't think that "spacing" is necessarily the be and end all. I enjoy the feelings I have when playing, and i don't really understand why anyone would want to vacate from them.

Finally, I didn't read the previous links (I guess I'm looking for instant gratification), but can anyone tell me how play can remain safe and concensual if one partner can't effectively communitcate because they are in a trance-like-state? (using safe words)


Regarding your final question, they can't, in my opinion. The partner who is still in control has to bear all of the weight of that decision. I suppose if the dom knows the submissive extremely well, that partner could effectively stop the play when he/she was sure the bottom had had enough on a physical level. But that can be a hard thing to judge.


_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to mystictryst)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 6:54:41 PM   
alandraofMists


Posts: 187
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
For me, i rarely know when i go into subspace and allot of the time don't know if i am in space or not. Others can tell very easily when i hit or i am in space. This also means most times i drift out of space. i can only remember ever crashing once.

Subspace for me is very unique, my space is dependent on the way the Dom plays me, aggressive play on His part will cause my subspace to be a more bratty or aggressive one back towards Him. Very controlled play whither it being me restrained tightly or the Dom being very slow, relaxed and sensual in His giving of the pain will most likely get Him a very tranquil and quiet subspace. i hit other levels or areas of space within those two but these are the two main aspects of my sub space.

That does not mean that while in a tranquil state i will not cry out in pain or have tears. As i hit each new level or drift through each new cloud of sensation i quiet down and release the stress of my mind and body, allot like i have been told a person in mediation does.

Within the aggressive one, i can sometimes feel when i have reached a higher level then i was at previously. I become very aggressive then go silent almost like i am taunting the Dom to make me react. Being free and encouraged to fight, so that He can enjoy bending me to His will and I feel the power of His control upon me.

As for me drifting out, it does not matter what space i was in or how deep/high i was during play, i do not know when i come out. i do like to hear that my Lord enjoyed my play whither He played me or someone else did and He watched. This can happened right after play or days afterward. Although at times i do not remember if i am told right after play and need to ask again. This makes me feel relaxed and confident within myself.

As long as i know that He enjoyed my play, i am happy that i pleased Him. If my Lord has issues with my play i then feel the need to understand what went wrong during play so that both of us may fully enjoy the play between us. i rarely have any problems with the type or intensity of the play that I am used for

Knight's alandra

(in reply to submissivesilk)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Subspace - 11/5/2005 7:57:45 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

I think this article describes it very well. At least it did for me.

What exactly is "subspace" and ... what is it not?

Did you get permission to post this?

i found this on their site, which she had provided the link to:

© Articles from this background information section may be republished in part or in full, provided their source and ownership is duly attributed to the POWERotics Foundation. Republishing on Internet sites is allowed, provided a link to http://www.powerotics.com is being provided with the article.

The BDSM Media Information Center is an endeavor by the POWERotics Foundation, an organisation devoted to providing quality information about BDSM.


Thank you both. No I didn't. I had thought if the link was posted it was allowed.


_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to girl4you2)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Subspace - 11/6/2005 12:13:37 AM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
As others have said, subspace is an altered state of consciousness.

For me, I rarely reach subspace, but when I do, I'm told I look and act like I'm drunk. There have been times when I've been so deep into it that I was taken down from one apparatus, put elsewhere, and the scene continued for another half hour or more without my even knowing it, although Master did tell me I responded to Him quite nicely.

Physically, it's like I get to a point where what He's doing might hurt, and it registers as pain... but I don't CARE that it hurts.


_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to submissivesilk)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Subspace - 11/6/2005 9:02:23 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
Littlepita,

Is this the article in its entirety or is there more somewhere else (you made mention of it being a summary)? Where did you locate this article? I was not able to find it at the link that you provided and I wish to see what the references are for the scientific claims.

Thank you

Knight's kyra

(in reply to Littlepita)
Profile   Post #: 20
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