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RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 8:55:51 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

kittinsol,
I wasn't targetting you...and actually you weren't one of the people who sprang to mind. But I don't think that being a foreigner cancels out a person's right to speak. I was merely wondering WHY someone who never steps foot on this soil and is never impacted in one way or another would be so passionate about an issue that is exclusive to American soil. Not a judgment...more of a "hmmm I wonder". It also seems to be a subject oriented phenomenon. American gun rights really seem to get people's blood pressures up. Traffic laws have a lot to do with people dying too...but they don't generate the same level of passion.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 41

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 8:56:48 AM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

Cops confiscate guns, sure. He didn't say they didn't. He said "criminals" meaning the collective.

DC is known for being the district of crime and for having one of the highest murder rates in the country. What do you think the criminals there use? Dead fish?

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 42

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 8:57:43 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Why should respect their rulings since it's obvious that they're all just partisan hacks in the end. I mean, face it - if they're anointed by liberal presidents, they rule in favor of liberal causes. If they're anointed by conservative presidents they sometimes support conservative causes.

And they reverse themselves often enough to destroy any credibility that might otherwise remain... they have the power of tyrants over us, they believe themselves to be gods, but to me they're only bitter politicians in the end, really.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It's amazing the attitudes with these rulings lately...no one wants to respect the system anymore.

I dont agree with everything the court rules on, but I respect their rulings and what they rule is the law.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 43

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:00:54 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

It's alright, erin, I was a tad wired by the 'go home' comment. To be fair, people should feel free to comment on any issue, even if it's outside of their immediate realm. We do live in an increasingly global society. A while back there was a thread about hate speech laws in Europe. The American posters, some of whom I believe never even set foot on the European continent, were very outspoken, and felt no inhibition at commenting . It would never occur to me to tell them it's none of their business though...

That's what these fora are for :-) .

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(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 44

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:04:27 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I mean, face it - if they're anointed by liberal presidents, they rule in favor of liberal causes. If they're anointed by conservative presidents they sometimes support conservative causes.

And they reverse themselves often enough to destroy any credibility that might otherwise remain... they have the power of tyrants over us, they believe themselves to be gods, but to me they're only bitter politicians in the end, really.

Good points...

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 45

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:08:08 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Kittin, you know I adore you and quite often agree with you.

However, this really is one subject that I cannot. My own personal experience tells me the truth.

How wonderful it would be to live in an area where law enforcement was always moments away to assist. How wonderful to not have meth freaks running about, living their dellusional world, sometimes violently. How wonderful to never have women harrassed or attacked,by violent predatory men that are not quite right in their minds. To never have ex-spouses threaten to kill you and your children, and the local law enforcement tell you there is nothing they can do about it.

I live in the American Heartland. Low crime rate, friendly neighbours. Yet I had that ex-spouse that tried several times to remove me from the planet. He even set fire to my "safe house" once. The beautiful farmland I live in is peppered with demented meth addled souls. There are violent sex predators that like to threaten women (one is a participant on this forum even). There are times when the local law enforcement is 10+ miles away. If they even feel inclined to respond at all.

I don't really enjoy hunting anymore. Not that big of a meat eater and would not use it anyway. I can kill a suspicious possum with a shovel, no gun needed. However, if one of the meth freaks that use the cabins across the road lose their marbles, or someone, like David, thinks they are going to sneak into my house late at night, I've only got my alarm system to warn me they are coming, and my own physical abilities to defend myself, at times. The alarm system is fool proof, but it will not stop a determined nutcase. Any burgler worth his salt will tell you that no house is, break-in, proof. That leaves me and whatever resources I might have to personally protect myself. My dogs are awsome and have "treed" two morons in the past. Fortunately neither was armed or my dogs might have been killed.

So again, that leave me and my own resources. Honestly, call me cold, evil, whatever anyone feels fits. But I have no problem with the concept of "shoot to kill" when it involves either the safety of myself, or even more importantly, someone I love. Maybe they will have learned their lesson for their next life.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 6/26/2008 9:09:00 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 46

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:10:41 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Go back to Europe then.

Well, that was on the rude side. But it does make me think of a question. We've had a lot of gun rights threads on here and I have noticed that it is often the case that people who are not Americans are sometimes the most vocal. I'm not asking this to be snarky but what is it about our gun laws that make people who don't live here and never have to deal with them firsthand care so much about them?

Though I don`t think there`s a lot of fur-inners responding to gun threads,it`s fair question.

The answer is culture.

Gun culture.

American culture and the huge influence American culture has worldwide.

We`re kinda oblivious to it b/c we are it and rarely look inward.Just look at subrob`s comment.

But our movies,songs and books are full of violence and images of guns in each hand, doing Rambo stuff.

And,... we`re like the 2nd or 3rd largest exporter of guns to the world.I think fur-inners have a right to question that.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 47

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:14:54 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Honestly, call me cold, evil, whatever anyone feels fits. But I have no problem with the concept of "shoot to kill" when it involves either the safety of myself, or even more importantly, someone I love. Maybe they will have learned their lesson for their next life.

I wouldn't dream of calling you anything like that, Tigresse! - my opinion is very much based on 'absolute personal and moral convictions', not on direct experience. I've never lived in such a violent place that it required I needed a gun for self-protection, but I completely understand where you are coming from. It takes a radically different mindset, one that can only faceted by life. As a matter of fact, from listening to intelligent people like yourself and others express their 'positive' view of guns my opinion has considerably softened... it's not nearly as extreme as it once was :-) .

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(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 48

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:17:48 AM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Personally, I think it's a tragedy. Oh well, business as usual.

Go back to Europe then.

KUDOS ROB! It never ceases to amaze and nauseate me when people who are not americans think they have a say in American politics, American laws etc... It brings to mind when Shania Twain endorsed Kerry. Shania Twain is a fucking Canadian, she doesnt get a vote here. In Canada handguns are essentially prohibited all together, and I leave them home when I go there because thats the law. When in Canada keep your mouth shut and follow Canadian law and say "Well alrighty then, eh?" The same thing should be taught to every foreigner entering this country for whatever reason, from whatever port of entry, from whatever point of origin. Until one becomes a naturalized citizen, they are a guest here. Nothing more. Thats not geared at a particular poster either, but to all foreigners on or off this board. I feel the same about the display of the Mexican flag at a school here in Texas. Sorry, that flag is flown on the other side of the river. Wanna see it, and pledge allegiance to it, then attend school there... Only two flags belong on flagpoles in Texas, Old Glory on top and the Lone Star underneath.....

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 49

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:21:01 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why should respect their rulings since it's obvious that they're all just partisan hacks in the end. I mean, face it - if they're anointed by liberal presidents, they rule in favor of liberal causes. If they're anointed by conservative presidents they sometimes support conservative causes.

And they reverse themselves often enough to destroy any credibility that might otherwise remain... they have the power of tyrants over us, they believe themselves to be gods, but to me they're only bitter politicians in the end, really.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It's amazing the attitudes with these rulings lately...no one wants to respect the system anymore.

I dont agree with everything the court rules on, but I respect their rulings and what they rule is the law.

Got a better system?

I`d like to hear what your alternative would be.

You make it sound like politics was forced on us by aliens from outer-space at gunpoint.

We are politics and politics are us.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 50

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:30:25 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.

It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any

manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed

weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment

or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast

doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by

felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms

in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or

laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of

arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those

“in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition

of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

Pp. 54–56

This decision is limited in scope and affirms once again that the claim of Unfettered gun rights is absurd,municipalities have allways had in place regulations concerning how and where one may arm oneself.The District of Columbia's law was way to broad and restrictive,it was bad law and overreaching in it's scope thus it was struck down

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 6/26/2008 9:31:38 AM >

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 51

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:31:55 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Duuuuuude, bigger font. Some of us are fighting the need for glasses......

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 52

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:36:34 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Personally, I think it's a tragedy. Oh well, business as usual.

Go back to Europe then.

Really uncalled for,downright rude as a matter of fact.Considering this is a Country of immigrants stupid to say the least

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 53

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:40:50 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

Well....Europe does go crazy with their restrictions on freedoms. You cant walk anywhere in Britain today without being on camera. Guns are banned. They dont even have a free press.

I dont want that kind of stuff in America.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 54

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:46:02 AM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

I would. I wouldn't mind cameras on every corner. As they say, the camera doesn't lie. I wouldn't mind at all having irrefutable proof that I didn't start a conflict or assault in the event of an altercation.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 55

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:49:26 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Dude...give me a break. Roe vs Wade was poorly written and pooly argued, and the leftists defend that ruling with their lives.

You lost dude, deal with it. Scalia wrote the opinion so it isnt going to have loopholes.

Read the syllabus and the ruling when it comes out before you start throwing stones dude.

Roe v Wade was not poorly written and built on existing precedent. This ruling goes in the face of more than a century of jurisprudence on this issue but then, in the syllabus at least, claims that the precedents weren't precedents and they didn't over rule them anyway. That's just plain bad.

Also the syllabus goes on to claim that a constitutionally granted right can be taken away from someone based upon a ruling by a court. This is extremely bad precedent and if that wording is in the majority opinion every justice who signs it should be impeached.

BTW I didn't lose. I was never in favor of as sweeping a ban as D.C. had. I don't think the 2nd says what the majority says it does in the syllabus but since that same majority now claims a Constitutionally granted right can be taken away by any judge I think most sane rational people will agree that this ruling is very very bad.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 56

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 9:54:19 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

I'm glad to see it interpreted as an Individual Right. This basicly means you can OWN the gun and keep it in your house. It hasn't changed the idea of needing a permit to carry concealed. It's not going to result in folks all packing heat. It simply removes the handgun bans from the perview of city and state govenrment. Meaning you can own one, and have it on your property.
I wonder how many other cities are going to be effected NYC? (Sullivan Act) Chicago? Any other cities that ban handgun ownership? Again folks get a grip on what it does and does not effect.

Does mean folks can buy and keep a handgn in their homes.
Does not mean folks can carry the gun anywhere else.
Does not mean they can keep it in their car's glovebox.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 57

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 10:00:51 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I'm glad to see it interpreted as an Individual Right. This basicly means you can OWN the gun and keep it in your house. It hasn't changed the idea of needing a permit to carry concealed. It's not going to result in folks all packing heat. It simply removes the handgun bans from the perview of city and state govenrment. Meaning you can own one, and have it on your property.
I wonder how many other cities are going to be effected NYC? (Sullivan Act) Chicago? Any other cities that ban handgun ownership? Again folks get a grip on what it does and does not effect.

Does mean folks can buy and keep a handgn in their homes.
Does not mean folks can carry the gun anywhere else.
Does not mean they can keep it in their car's glovebox.

That paragraph from the syllabus that's been quoted twice in this thread casts doubt on whether handgun bans are unconstitutional or not. All that is clear is that D.C.'s very restrictive firearms ban was not allowed. If the majority opinion isn't a whole lot clearer this is just going to lead to lots more litigation.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 58

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 10:02:24 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Personally, I think it's a tragedy. Oh well, business as usual.

Go back to Europe then.

KUDOS ROB! It never ceases to amaze and nauseate me when people who are not americans think they have a say in American politics, American laws etc... It brings to mind when Shania Twain endorsed Kerry. Shania Twain is a fucking Canadian, she doesnt get a vote here. In Canada handguns are essentially prohibited all together, and I leave them home when I go there because thats the law. When in Canada keep your mouth shut and follow Canadian law and say "Well alrighty then, eh?" The same thing should be taught to every foreigner entering this country for whatever reason, from whatever port of entry, from whatever point of origin. Until one becomes a naturalized citizen, they are a guest here. Nothing more. Thats not geared at a particular poster either, but to all foreigners on or off this board. I feel the same about the display of the Mexican flag at a school here in Texas. Sorry, that flag is flown on the other side of the river. Wanna see it, and pledge allegiance to it, then attend school there... Only two flags belong on flagpoles in Texas, Old Glory on top and the Lone Star underneath.....

DA when You have guests in Your home do You limit their right to have an opinion or restrict their rights to give voice to those opinions

(in reply to DomAviator)

Post #: 59

RE: Supreme Court strikes down handgun ban - 6/26/2008 10:12:40 AM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Really uncalled for,downright rude as a matter of fact.Considering this is a Country of immigrants stupid to say the least

This is a country of immigrants who became citizens, immigrants who have applied for a visa, and illegal immigrants. For a NON citizen who is here at the largess of the U.S. State Dept to criticize the way our government is run, and be called on it by a legal U.S. citizen is hardly rude, nor is it uncalled for.

If this decision, that bears no consequences on her citizenship, upsets her so much, that she feels it's a tragedy, she should be more than happy to return to her gun free utopia, which she left in the first place, rather than stay in this country.

One should look in the mirror when calling another stupid.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 60

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